Feelers ability to use emotions to get things immoral?

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

It's highly unrealistic to think all humans follow these stacks so neatly, too.(..or like you).. Most importantly, Fe acts unconsciously in characters without it developed well. Unconscious functions probably means you're unaware it's filtering through other functions. (However, others may be able to see it in you.) I imagine emotional manipulation can happen at any given time, for any given type...as long as it needs. (So, it can show up lots for anyone.) If I were a T user, (for the most part) but decided to "emote" for my own selfish gain, continuously, that doesn't make me Fe. It just makes me a Narcissistic asswipe. Emotional manipulation and extraverted ethics are not the same, although Fe is said to be able to express in order to manipulate. An Fi type may also emotionally express for selfish gain if that emotion were a negative one. (Te antagonist.) (I imagine a handful of extroverted types, without Fe in the stack can pull off the same thing, quite awhile.) I just don't see the theory having any place in the real world nor logically, while discussing Typology.

We are talking specifically about emotional manipulation here, the fact that Fi may emotionally express for selfish gain is irrelevant.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Baseless stereotype.

Stereotype? Yes.
baseless? No.

 

[virtualinsanity]

We are talking specifically about emotional manipulation here, the fact that Fi may emotionally express for selfish gain is irrelevant.

It becomes quite relevant when an Fi user is expressing plastic anger to evoke emotional responses in others...for a greater agenda...
..Fi users even meaning the Te users with Fi in the top 4 stack.
Point being: Anyone can emotionally manipulate. (Not that we have any evidence these people are these types..) But.. Some ExTPs pride themselves on it. (Thinking types.)
You don't need to have ethics/moral convictions in order to emotionally manipulate.. You can do it with a poker face while performing a certain deed or phrase, too.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

It becomes quite relevant when an Fi user is expressing plastic anger to evoke emotional responses in others...for a greater agenda... ..Fi users even meaning the Te users with Fi in the top 4 stack. Point being: Anyone can emotionally manipulate. (Not that we have any evidence these people are these types..) But.. Some ExTPs pride themselves on it. (Thinking types.) You don't need to have ethics/moral convictions in order to emotionally manipulate.. You can do it with a poker face while performing a certain deed or phrase, too.

Of course anyone can emotionally manipulate, but does that mean each type has the same tendency to emotionally manipulate as another? Surely not, we have a good bit of scientific evidence to back this; certain personality types are more prone to exhibiting certain behaviors than others, it's common sense. If everyone had the same ability/predisposition to do certain things, with no consistent variation between the types, how would we differentiate the types? The answer is that we wouldn't, as ones "type" is pretty much directly tied to the behaviors they exhibit and the frequency they tend towards exhibiting these behaviors.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

It becomes quite relevant when an Fi user is expressing plastic anger to evoke emotional responses in others...for a greater agenda... ..Fi users even meaning the Te users with Fi in the top 4 stack. Point being: Anyone can emotionally manipulate. (Not that we have any evidence these people are these types..) But.. Some ExTPs pride themselves on it. (Thinking types.) You don't need to have ethics/moral convictions in order to emotionally manipulate.. You can do it with a poker face while performing a certain deed or phrase, too.

Of course you don't need to have ethics or morals to emotionally manipulate. The tendency to use emotional manipulate would in my opinion, would indicate a lack thereof (generally speaking). When did I say you need morals or ethics to emotionally manipulate?

 

[Population: 1]

If you are seeing me display emotions I 100% guarantee they are genuine. Can I act? I believe I could do a fairly convincing job understanding what needs to be summoned and drawing upon prior experiences. However, for me to be showing you how I'm feeling is a very sincere thing. To merely mimic my deepest self to manipulate others is against my values and my sense of authenticity. You can't even get me to smile for a photo if I don't feel it.

 

[EcK]

No it's just something I and other people on various other online forums have noticed. It's merely an anecdotal observation. With that in mind, they seem to have this ability to turn on/off their emotions at will which thinkers lack, perhaps because they (feelers) are more adept at using their feeling functions, that they are able to use them in more dynamic ways? Anyways, it definitely varies from type to type. Of all feeling types, INFPs and INFJs have probably demonstrated these qualities the least, although they still do have the ability to do so. ESFJs and ESFPs have been the most likely to exhibit this type of behavior from my experience.

Uh no. I can turn off my emotions in terms of decision making just fine. I think you're thinking of Fi rather than thinkers / feelers.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Of course you don't need to have ethics or morals to emotionally manipulate. The tendency to use emotional manipulate would in my opinion, would indicate a lack thereof (generally speaking). When did I say you need morals or ethics to emotionally manipulate?

This contradicts your entire argument unless you are only speaking of unhealthy F types..and even then, it's still shaky. The very essence of F types is going by ethics/morals.

By you suggesting that 'Feelers' are more prone to emotional manipulation, you are also suggesting those who have moral/ethical convictions are more likely to do so.. Feelers simply have judgments based on morals or ethics. Emotions have little to do with it unless one is reacting from their morals/ethics being crossed.

Surely you mean those who use tactics to trick people emotionally, right? Any type can do that, even without being emotionally expressive.
Sure, intentionally impacting the 'feeling' of the environment/object is related to Fe.' -- (Mood-Feeling..emotion may be impacted but emotion is not the goal.) -- That's not the only part of Fe, though..and if you're using it to trick others, it's overall usage would be considered, negative.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

As far as scientific studies go, I'd love to know what those studies were based on -- Did they test feeling types or emotional people?

 

[virtualinsanity]

Of course anyone can emotionally manipulate, but does that mean each type has the same tendency to emotionally manipulate as another? Surely not, we have a good bit of scientific evidence to back this; certain personality types are more prone to exhibiting certain behaviors than others, it's common sense. If everyone had the same ability/predisposition to do certain things, with no consistent variation between the types, how would we differentiate the types? The answer is that we wouldn't, as ones "type" is pretty much directly tied to the behaviors they exhibit and the frequency they tend towards exhibiting these behaviors.

Yes..but again.. emotions have little to do with F or T. Of course there are ways to differentiate types. I just wouldn't advise using emotional anything as part of the argument unless it is one about why someone is emotional--in which it is not.
Anybody can choose to emote in order to manipulate for whatever reason is the point and I don't see why F types are differentiated from other types when it's more about strategy to get others to move where/how you want.
Anybody can abuse an F expression..and now that I think of it, it seems to be brought up by ExTPs. -- Again, my subjective observation.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

When you say 'emotional manipulation' do you mean someone who is expressing strong emotions while they are manipulating, rather than manipulation that is aimed at emotional outcomes, but does not use personal, emotional indulgences to achieve it?

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

When you say 'emotional manipulation' do you mean someone who is expressing strong emotions while they are manipulating, rather than manipulation that is aimed at emotional outcomes, but does not use personal, emotional indulgences to achieve it?

Someone expressing strong emotions while they're manipulating is what I meant

 

[á´…eparted]

If I use my emotions to get things (which I do), it's because my emotions are telling me I need those things. I go to pretty far lengths to ignore these urges for a multitude of reasons, but at times it's important to acknowledge. I've learned through life that if you just tell someone something, they might not understand. If emotion is added in it adds weight and meaning.

I only call it manipulative if you're harming or taking advantage of the other person.

As for if this is a feeler thing? .

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

This contradicts your entire argument unless you are only speaking of unhealthy F types..and even then, it's still shaky. The very essence of F types is going by ethics/morals. By you suggesting that 'Feelers' are more prone to emotional manipulation, you are also suggesting those who have moral/ethical convictions are more likely to do so.. Feelers simply have judgments based on morals or ethics. Emotions have little to do with it unless one is reacting from their morals/ethics being crossed. Surely you mean those who use tactics to trick people emotionally, right? Any type can do that, even without being emotionally expressive. Sure, intentionally impacting the 'feeling' of the environment/object is related to Fe.' -- (Mood-Feeling..emotion may be impacted but emotion is not the goal.) -- That's not the only part of Fe, though..and if you're using it to trick others, it's overall usage would be considered, negative. Correct me where I'm wrong. As far as scientific studies go, I'd love to know what those studies were based on -- Did they test feeling types or emotional people?

See the thing about the way feelers use their emotion/ethics is that they are their dominant or secondary function, meaning they repress their thinking function at least to some extent on a regular basis. Now, how I've noticed this translates into the real world is that they may have trouble articulating their wants/needs/desires in words and this are prone to using roundabout methods to communicate themselves when they oughtta just ask for what they want politely and calmly, no need to involve emotion. This is obviously present in varying degrees throughout the feeling types and thinking types, however, as a rule, I think it would be fairly safe to conclude that feelers would, on average, in general, be more likely to exhibit this sort of emotional manipulation than thinkers, if only for the feelers reduced use of words to communicate their wants /needs/thoughts etc. and this is not something I see as being ethical or even genuinely emotional in any way, it's calculated use of ones own emotions to achieve a desired outcome from the external environment. So while the processes they use may involve emotions and ethics, at least on the surface level, the feelers are not necessarily "ethical" or even genuinely "emotional" as a rule.

 

[iwakar]

Oh, this assumption (the one where xxFx are more likely to use their particular gifts for ill than xxTx) has never been explored here before.

/s

Do you think feelers' peoples' tendency to use their emotions as a device to manipulate others is morally questionable?

It certainly can be.

 

[ceecee]

See the thing about the way feelers use their emotion/ethics is that they are their dominant or secondary function, meaning they repress their thinking function at least to some extent on a regular basis. Now, how I've noticed this translates into the real world is that they may have trouble articulating their wants/needs/desires in words and this are prone to using roundabout methods to communicate themselves when they oughtta just ask for what they want politely and calmly, no need to involve emotion. This is obviously present in varying degrees throughout the feeling types and thinking types, however, as a rule, I think it would be fairly safe to conclude that feelers would, on average, in general, be more likely to exhibit this sort of emotional manipulation than thinkers, if only for the feelers reduced use of words to communicate their wants /needs/thoughts etc. and this is not something I see as being ethical or even genuinely emotional in any way, it's calculated use of ones own emotions to achieve a desired outcome from the external environment. So while the processes they use may involve emotions and ethics, at least on the surface level, the feelers are not necessarily "ethical" or even genuinely "emotional" as a rule.

I had a long drawn out reply typed for you but I realized it would be a waste of time. People can be twats, no matter type. Learn how to outsmart them and stop bitching about it.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

I had a long drawn out reply typed for you but I realized it would be a waste of time. People can be twats, no matter type. Learn how to outsmart them and stop bitching about it.

Again, putting words on my mouth, I wasn't talking about being a twat in general, I was talking about a very specific form of manipulation, whether or not that makes one a twat is totally opinion based.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

If I use my emotions to get things (which I do), it's because my emotions are telling me I need those things. I go to pretty far lengths to ignore these urges for a multitude of reasons, but at times it's important to acknowledge. I've learned through life that if you just tell someone something, they might not understand. If emotion is added in it adds weight and meaning. I only call it manipulative if you're harming or taking advantage of the other person. As for if this is a feeler thing? .

The strange thing is, my mom (infp) and my brother (esfj), don't even use their words to ask for what they are asking for. They always hint at what they want when all I want is for them to communicate in a direct, straightforward manner what they need or want from me. It's incredibly frustrating to have someone hint at what they want, expect you to figure it out, and then when you ask them what they want, they get mad at you for not knowing what they want and expecting them to tell you instead of playing mind games that unnecessarily complicate and frustrate the lines of communication. They both always pull guilt trips on people at the drop of a dime to the point where they can cause significant psychological harm to people, friends, family and never show any sign of remorse during the acts of guilt tripping people because they always view themselves as a victim, even when it's them victimizing others. They just can not, will not, no matter what admit to or take responsibility for doing things that hurt others because they need to view themselves as the most caring, kind and gentle creatures on this earth. They get competitive about being viewed as the nicest to the point where others around them wonder if it's a defense mechanism because they somehow feel they aren't nice enough

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

I'm immoral

 

[geedoenfj]

I'm sorry that my emotions are manipulating people

 

[iwakar]

I'll be thrilled when people figure out that type can correlate how not whether a person manipulates because (Bad News Bear here) every human being does it.