[MBTI General] Introversion and Anxiety

[Patrick]

I've been into this p-typing stuff for years now, and one thing has always confused me. I'm an Introvert--no doubt about that--but my experience of Introversion doesn't often match what other people report.

I can't relate, for example, when I hear that Introverts are drained by mingling with people, or that they "recharge" by spending time alone. I often come alive around people, and my energy holds up just fine. But my INTJ wife really does get drained and is then recharged by having some "cave time."

What mainly makes me answer "prefer to be alone" on personality tests is social anxiety. Actually it's probably anxiety and self-doubt in general, but it's magnified when I'm around others and pressured to keep up with conversations and fulfill social obligations and such. The worry tends to spoil my interactions somewhat, and I want to go off by myself where those worries will subside.

Yet, I'm told that Introversion has nothing to do with shyness or anxiety. Hmm. If not, then what does have to do with that?

Pretty recently I decided my enneagram type is Six. That goes a long way toward explaining what I've experienced all my life. Type Six is all about anxiety and self-doubt.

So anyhow, I thought I'd just ask: Does anyone else experience anxiety as a cause of, or factor in, Introversion?

Or are they two entirely different things to you?

 

[á´…eparted]

I'm very extroverted, and not shy. There are some situations where I am a bit shy, but it's quite rare. I also don't have any social anxiety.

 

[Luv Deluxe]

I had a friend once who eventually came to realize she was ENFP, not INFP, because she had confused introversion with social anxiety for a very long time. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case for you, just...well, pointing out the obvious, I suppose - that mistyping due to this idea can and does happen, so keep that in mind.

Now that I think of it, my friend was also an Enneagram 6 - a phobic one, the blazing poster child thereof - and an sx-dom.

You can absolutely be both introverted and socially anxious, however. My ISFJ friend is a good example; she naturally prefers to be on her own, though she contributes to the care and wellbeing of the tribe, so to speak. She also has paralyzing social anxiety, so that after she's attended an outing or performed some social obligation - which she still very much cares about - she replays whole conversations and scans them for any error she may have committed, fretting for hours and literally losing sleep. What I naturally intuit as a harmless comment from a stranger, she tears apart and analyzes for insults to her character, panicking. Anxiety or not, however, I feel that she would probably still identify as introverted because of her dominant preference for space and plenty of alone time.

Introversion and social anxiety are two completely different things. Social anxiety definitely impairs one's desire to interact with other people, no doubt, but sometimes I think it clouds one's true nature. Severe social anxiety is a problem - not a personality trait - and it's very painful to live with. I used to deal with it in high school, and it's very liberating to not have to anymore. (I have generalized anxiety and probably always will, as it is genetic, but that seems to come from within. I'm not especially scared of the outside world.)

I have never been more sure of my introversion once healing from social anxiety, honestly. My desire to be alone is simply that, and not motivated by a fear of external stimuli. I am not scared of people or crowds. I like going out. I love exploring. However, when it comes specifically to people, I find that I could take them or leave them - mostly leave them. I need to be constantly mentally stimulated, physically active, and having fun...but I can take care of those needs myself.

As I've said before in another thread, though, my upbringing almost certainly played a role in the development of my I/E preference. I'm an only child who grew up with zero neighbor kids and often emotionally unavailable parents (whom I do love). I learned from day one how to be happy and generally fearless in absorbing fun, exciting things by myself, a thing I often did to stave off more existential kinds of anxiety. I had to rely on myself to have fun, and fortunately I'm so creative that I feel like I never have enough time for everything. My mom used to say that I was a "little busybody" because as a kid, I would cart buckets of toys and notebooks around with me - keeping several options open for entertainment while also keeping to myself. I almost never bothered anyone for attention (until I needed feedback on my short stories, that is).

I do identify as being very high energy, as well. I think a shark might be a good spirit animal - they're often misunderstood, many species travel alone, and of course, they must keep air moving over their gills at all times. I have that sensation - that if I stop moving, I'll die.

I think there's a similar confusion that mistakes confidence for extroversion. Both can coincide, and often probably do, but they are not the same thing. I consider myself very confident, and because of that, I sometimes go out of my way to be extra warm to new people to keep them comfortable; I find that otherwise, confidence combined with reticence can create unintended intimidation.

Anyway...it's long and complicated, but that's the general meandering tableaux of what my introversion means to me.

If you feel that the only thing standing between you and extroversion is your social anxiety, I would like to respectfully, politely suggest that you consider the possibility of being an extrovert. You know yourself better than anyone, though, and I don't mean to challenge your identification as an INFP. Just consider why you might like being alone when you're not feeling anxious. Would you be comfortable spending an entire week by yourself? Do you feel like you need attention from and interaction with others pretty regularly? How often? Does your high volume of energy come from inside, or do you tend to acquire it from interaction with others?

Sorry this was so long, but it is indeed a rather complicated subject.

 

[reckful]

There's a well-established fifth temperament dimension that isn't included in the Myers-Briggs typology and is often referred to as "neuroticism" (although it isn't a psychological disorder). The Big Five/SLOAN typology labels it Emotional Stability and refers to the two poles as Calm and Limbic. Being Limbic on that dimension tends to be associated with, among other things, anxiety/worry-proneness; emotional sensitivity/volatility; proneness to annoyance/irritation; self-consciousness; and (sometimes) depression. I consider myself Limbic, and I'd say the self-consciousness and anxiety-proneness that come with that make me more "shy" than I would be if I was the same degree of introverted but below-average in neuroticism.

If you're interested, the Big Five test I generally point people to is this similarminds Big Five/SLOAN test, which will (purport to) type you on the Emotional Stability dimension — in addition to the four Big Five dimensions with substantial MBTI correlations. And I've put some more information about the Big Five and that similarminds test in the spoiler.

Here's a table that shows which Big Five dimension essentially corresponds to which MBTI dimension:

SLOAN dimension	SLOAN poles	corresponding MBTI poles
Extroversion	Reserved vs. Social	I vs. E
Emotional Stability	Limbic vs. Calm	n/a
Orderliness	Unstructured vs. Organized	P vs. J
Accommodation	Egocentric vs. Accommodating	T vs. F
Inquisitiveness	Non-Curious vs. Inquisitive	S vs. N

I kind of like the linked Big Five test both because I think it does an OK typing job and also because, unlike the official MBTI and many of the online type tests, it's not "forced choice." It gives you five choices for each question — an "in the middle" choice as well as mild or strong in each direction. For that reason, it's reasonable to expect the SLOAN percentage scores to have something to say about the strength of your preferences. With a forced choice test, that's not really true. Somebody with, say, a mild S preference could easily take a forced choice test and, assuming they knew themselves well and interpreted the questions properly, end up choosing the S response for almost all (or all) of the questions, with the result being a very high S score. (That said, I think scores that are close to the middle on forced choice tests tend to be some indication that your preference on that dimension — in whichever direction — is probably on the mild side.)

BUT NOTE: Although I kind of like the similarminds SLOAN test, I don't think much of the corresponding personality type descriptions at the similarminds site, for a number of reasons, one of which is: Most MBTI sources reflect the perspective that it isn't better to have one preference rather than its opposite on any of the four MBTI dimensions. The descriptions at the similarminds site, on the other hand — somewhat consistent with Big Five sources generally — definitely favor Accommodating over Egocentric (F over T) and Organized over Unstructured (J over P). And if you're Limbic (even mildly), that earns you a negative-adjective bonanza. So I recommend using the similarminds test as a sort of double-check/quantifier for the MBTI dimensions, but I think the personality descriptions in a typical MBTI source are better.

And here's a link to the Big Five Inventory, which is both (1) one of the most academically well-regarded Big Five tests and (2) only 44 questions.

 

[Patrick]

There's a well-established fifth temperament dimension that isn't included in the Myers-Briggs typology and is often referred to as "neuroticism" (although it isn't a psychological disorder). The Big Five/SLOAN typology labels it Emotional Stability and refers to the two poles as Calm and Limbic. ...

Yes. The Big Five (I've taken a few of those tests) gives me a high score on "Neuroticism" every time, and it seems to be referring to the kind of anxiety I'm talking about. That's one of the things (another being Oldham types, where I scored high in "Sensitive") that convinced me my Enneagram type is Six (not One as I had most recently believed).

 

[Patrick]

[MENTION=13973]Luv Deluxe[/MENTION]--Thanks for the insightful reply!

Yes, I've certainly put some thought into my possibly being an anxious Extravert rather than a true Introvert. I can't completely rule it out. Anyway, there's something odd going on in my case. I'll share some things about myself and my typing history, just in case it interests you or anyone (if it doesn't, prepare to start skimming--or just skip the rest of this post).

1. I've taken the official MBTI, along with the Majors PTI, both administered by a leader in the field. I came up decidedly INFP on both tests. The only other types I gave much consideration to were ISFJ and INFJ.

2. On all those 16-types tests and quizzes, my Introversion score is way high. But I believe that what I'm calling anxiety is a huge factor in that. Do I prefer to be alone most of the time? Yeah--because it's hard enough dealing with all my self-doubt and second-guessing and complex fears when I'm by myself; when I'm interacting with others, the amount of "inner processing" I have to do is multiplied.

3. A fellow online (EricB, I believe, in this group) pointed out to me that there are two sides to what people call introversion: (1) How much do you want affection and interaction with others? and (2) How much do you reach out to others for affection or interaction? I'm strong in the former, weak in the latter.

4. When I talk about anxiety--and some start calling it "social anxiety"--I believe it's unrelated to anything like HSP (highly sensitive persons). I'm not unduly bothered by environmental stimuli. Nor do I have agoraphobia or anything remotely like that. I'm fine in crowds of people; I even kinda like losing myself in a crowd. I've had a great time at rock concerts, standing up and swaying to the music like everybody else. I've taken charge of leading groups of volunteers in projects, and I've spoken before audiences. None of that makes me any more nervous than it would anyone (i.e., I experience a few "butterflies," but I'm mostly fine).

5. When I'm in a situation where I have to speak to anyone about anything, however--i.e., spend some time holding up my end of a conversation--my face turns a bit red, tension can always be heard in my voice, and I'm apt to either speak too quickly or too softly. I worry constantly about whether I'll say the right things or blunder, and it feels like the most important thing in the world to get it right.

6. Quite often, interaction begins with eye contact and an exchange of smiles--but once I've experienced that, I feel I've had it all; there's nothing to say. When I make contact with someone I like (or someone I think I might like), I'm just one big smile inside, and I'm full of happy feelings; and if I get a smile in return, it makes my day. I don't want to spoil the moment by speaking. Hence, when I'm around my wife I often just mutter nonsense phrases for fun rather than having a rational conversation. And I often do a lot better with pets, since communication is then wordless.

7. In early childhood I kept to myself a lot, but I also played with neighbor kids. My only sibling was four years younger, so we had to grow up before we could play together much; and we didn't even then, because she was a sister (and at that age boys tend to hang out with boys). I had trouble even in first grade, though, because I hadn't interacted with other kids much up till then. I was "mentally gifted" (reading on a seventh-grade level), but I was said to be emotionally behind my peers. On my report cards, I always got top marks in everything except "Plays well with others"; I needed improvement there. Yet, by third and fourth grade, I was merrily chasing flocks of girls around the playground at recess. But by seventh grade, I was at the bottom of the pecking order, beset by bullies and unable to deal with that situation.

* * *
Now I've lived practically a whole life. I'm sixty, and if it weren't for my wife and our three cats, I'd be living almost like a recluse. I work a full-time job, but I only occasionally interact with my coworkers. I can count my friends on one hand, with fingers to spare. I get along with almost everybody; people seem to like me. And I like people too, especially on a one-on-one basis. But I have some kind of "psychological lockjaw" that makes me extremely hesitant to project myself or speak with other people. And I've grown so used to this lifestyle that it's OK with me. When I have opportunities to get together with people, I often decline, as it seems like just too much bother. I'm always up for online interactions like this one, however! As long as there's some physical distance between me and others, I'm delighted to "pass notes back and forth" on the Internet. (Passing notes in class was also very enjoyable for me in my school days.)

Sometimes I have to attend a social gathering, and I just did that yesterday morning. I spent several hours at a large meeting, where there was a mix of old friends, acquaintances, coworkers, and strangers. We listened to lectures and creative-arts presentations, and then we had a small-group discussion at our table of six. How did I do there?

From an onlooker's perspective, I did just fine. I even took the initiative at times, making a point to approach an old friend for a hug or handshake, or asking the strangers across the table where they were from. But on the inside, I was a bundle of nerves the whole time. Others probably didn't notice much; I present a pretty cool, calm exterior and cover up my inner tension with generous doses of humor. I actually had to argue my INTJ wife into staying longer, because I had to help connect two people with each other in the early afternoon; my wife was feeling uncomfortable from early on, and by noon she wanted to go back home to her "cave." Meanwhile, though, she probably did a lot more talking than i did; however she didn't connect emotionally with people nearly as much as I did.

When we got home, she quickly retired to the bedroom with a good book and a hunk of summer sausage to munch on. I got online to catch up with discussions. But all the rest of the day, and again this morning, my mind kept flashing back to interactions at that meeting. I wished I hadn't said such-and-such; I regretted going on with a story I was telling when a friend obviously wanted to be done with our conversation and go sit with another friend; I wished we had been able to ask an out-of-town couple to stay overnight at our house, since we hardly ever get to see each other; and so on. I mentally kick myself over all the faux pas I feel I committed. I worry myself sick over what others might be thinking of me. (But my INTJ wife apparently almost never has any such worries; she's my opposite in that respect.)

The other thing, though, is that I was glad we didn't stay for the afternoon and evening sessions of the conference. The event took up too much of my personal time as it was, and I'm glad to be home doing my own thing now. Today my wife wants us to run some errands and do some yard work, and I'm dreading that too, just because it's an imposition on my being able to sit here in my recliner, doing as I please. I'm generally happiest when I'm lost in a computer game or book or asynchronous online discussions.

It's not for any lack of love for people, though--not by any means. Ideally I'd be hugging, kissing, or making love to somebody special most all the time; I've got those kinds of emotions in me. However, making conversation--thinking of things to say and responding to what others say--seems somehow awkward. I'm never confident about it; and no matter how well I do at it, I always end up feeling I blew it in some way or other: I either revealed too much or too little, or I couldn't manage to navigate to a place where the interaction was satisfying for both of us.

I think all of what I've said above fits well with enneagram 6w5 sx/sp. And I don't see that it conflicts with INFP. But it bothers me that the "I" in INFP means something other than what mainly drives me toward spending a lot more time alone than with others.

 

[reckful]

I'd say E/I and T/F both have significant (although somewhat different) roles to play in terms of influencing somebody's propensity to engage in social activity, with EFs being the most social, ITs the least, and ETs and IFs in between. If there's a set of types whose lives are most likely to revolve around their relationships, I'd say it's the EFs, and if there's a set of types most likely to be loners, I'd say it's the ITs.

So if someone's an ET or an IF, you might say they're reasonably likely to experience competing tugs at times when it comes to whether they want to be interacting with others or whether they want to be alone.

I'd also say male/female and S/N can both, each in its own way, have some influence on someone's social propensities — Myers pegged SFs as the "sympathetic and friendly" types, while Keirsey pointed to NTs as the most aloof types — with the result that I'd be inclined to peg female ESFs as the likeliest social butterflies and male INTs (like me) as the likeliest MBTI candidates for hermithood.

And neuroticism can be another contributing factor, as we've already discussed.

I'm a believer in the possibility of ambiversion and/or complicating "facets" when it comes to the MBTI and Big Five dimensions, but honestly, reading through your posts in this thread, you sound pretty straightforwardly (and strongly) introverted to me — and I'd be inclined to point to your F preference as the source of the people-oriented aspects of your personality that you've suggested might be signs of extraversion in the mix.

 

[Eric B]

I believe the "anxiety" might be more directly connected with what's known in type as the "informative" pole [Interaction Styles] (which is really just one aspect of the whole responsiveness factor).

What's also noteworthy, is that being "high" on the "Want" scale is also considered a kind of "extroversion" in the APS, which is what frames those scales that way. If you look at the Supine descriptions Temperament: Supine In Inclusion
it says "Is an extrovert although he/she appears to be an introvert". I believe I/E as used in type fits with "expressiveness" ("reaching out to others") more, but as APS points out, that's only "what we say we want", while "responsiveness" (Wanted behavior) is "what we really want."
So you don't have to change your I/E.

So Supine is a very anxious temperament (and why it seems to fit E6 as well), and seeing that reckful mentioned Neuroticism, it would actually be high in that scale as well (Neuroticism is otherwise like the inverse of responsiveness. Notice, according to Eysenck who introduced the factor, the low responsive or "directive" classic temperaments, Melancholic and Choleric, are high Neurotic, and the higher responsive ("agreeable") temperaments, Sanguine and Phlegmatic, are low or "Stable". Supine breaks out of that, being high in both responsiveness and Neuroticism.

This is because of the very fact that they "want" people so much (like the Sanguine), but lack the mechanism to express to them (like the Sanguine does, and that temperament ends up getting its needs met more, and hence, more "stable"). So we are torn between this fear of rejection holding us back from people yet wanting them so much, and wishing they would come and assure us that we are welcome. (With me, Choleric in Control [NT] modifies this a bit, and if I really want involvement, then it can become a kind of "control" issue, and then I'll "pragmatically" go for it, but the added anxiety there is potentially clashing with others over "control" issues).

And it would be more pronounced in direct interaction with people, but otherwise, we'll like the "idea" of people, and having lots of them around (more potential for acceptance and welcome), at least for a time. (As still being ultimately true introverts, we will still wear out eventually, and want to retreat).

So what you're describing is perfectly fitting of the "low expressiveness; high responsiveness" of the Supine, and sounds a lot like me in both social settings and school.

 

[Patrick]

Would you be comfortable spending an entire week by yourself? Do you feel like you need attention from and interaction with others pretty regularly? How often?

In writing my long post above, I neglected to answer these questions, so I'll do it here.

I'm very comfortable spending time by myself; however, during that time I'm often having imaginary conversations with others or (as I'm doing right now) having asynchronous online discussions with others. I also sometimes have a tendency to mutter or talk aloud to myself when I'm alone (that bugs my wife, who sometimes says it's creepy).

If I'm engaged in a solitary activity--e.g., mowing the lawn or driving to work--time flies, and I'm only vaguely aware of the activity itself, because I'm mentally engaged in some kind of inner conversation. Usually I'm picturing a particular person and sort of rehearsing my side in a conversation we might have.

I do apparently need the company of others, but I don't need much interaction with them. Back when I was single and living alone, I'd usually be happy for half the day on Saturday or Sunday (during the week I always had coworkers around), but then I'd get antsy and start to feel something was very wrong, and I'd have to go out to a store or have a meal at a restaurant or something, just so I could see people and hear human voices. I'd almost never engage anyone, though; if I just bought some take-out food and went home, I was good for the rest of the day.

Getting married was vital to me, I feel. When single, I was driven to drink with loneliness, and I felt like a total misfit. That all changed completely once I got married. Just having someone around all the time made all the difference in the world. Nowadays my wife and I mostly do separate things, and sometimes we find it awkward to do things together. But I'm at peace inwardly just because she's right there in the next room. Doesn't matter a bit to me if we don't say anything to each other all day long. If anything ever happens to her, I'll be devastated.

I resist, though, anytime she talks about group activities. If I suggest that we take a canoe trip, she'll suggest joining a canoeing club instead--and I want no part of that. I don't want to have to meet new people and coordinate my schedule with them. I'd rather it be just the two of us.

When she's away on vacation--say to visit her family for a week or two--I do OK at home by myself. In fact, if she calls me periodically I tend to be annoyed by the intrusion of the phone calls--or the obligation I feel to call her. But the house sure feels empty, and it's always a big relief to have her back.

Does your high volume of energy come from inside, or do you tend to acquire it from interaction with others?

My volume of energy is pretty steady most all the time. I don't notice any peaks and valleys, other than fatigue at the end of the day when it's time to go to bed. And I don't know where it comes from.

I'll say, however, that I get enthused by the chance to interact with people--even if only from a distance, as I'm doing now. I do not get enthused by daily chores or even hobby activities. Chores, of course, are just chores; probably nobody gets excited about having to mow the lawn. But if someone suggested I take up pottery and sit by myself in a little shop, making pots for a few hours, I'd find it hard to make myself do that even if pottery interested me. I spend many hours playing single-player games, but I think that works only because there's the illusion of interaction/competition. I read, but then I'm sort of interacting with the author. Mostly I write (as I'm doing now); and it's a solitary pastime, but it also connects with others, if only indirectly.

I get energized, I guess (in the sense of enthused or motivated), by the prospect of engaging in these online discussions. On the flip side, I also get disappointed or discouraged when I browse around and find I don't have any e-mail and no one has replied to any of my discussion threads.

But IRL, I guess I'm both motivated by and fearful of engaging in face-to-face interaction. It'd be welcome if it involved the right person(s), but someone else might have to take the initiative. And even then, my experience would be mixed: part joy and part worry.

 

[BadOctopus]

I am definitely an introvert, but I am not shy. I am not particularly chatty (as [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] will attest to ), but I don't feel awkward in groups, and have no trouble with social interaction. Introversion does not guarantee shyness.

However, I totally do have a social energy meter, and it goes down steadily when I'm around other people. I find my tolerance for social activities is higher than it used to be. But when the meter does finally run out, it's bad. I get cranky and irritable, and feel mentally and physically exhausted. I don't want anyone touching me or even talking to me. I almost feel like I'm on the verge of tears. It's like I become a walking exposed nerve, and every second I'm around other people, it's like someone is touching that nerve over and over again.

Basically this. All of this. Introvert: 8 Sneaky Signs You Are About To Self-Destruct - Introvert Spring

 

[Frosty]

I probably have a tiny bit of social anxiety that I try to cover up, but it generally isn't crippling or anything. I kind of believe that occasionally it is proportionate to the situation- I just usually have a very difficult time listening and relating to certain peoples- stories and lifestyles, and what they want to share. I have a difficult time matching the mood of the environment around me I have noticed, and this irritates me more than I would like-not that I can't do it well, but more the emphasis that is placed upon it, so it causes me to occasionally be pretty quiet. I don't know if it is anxiety, or what- it just is something that I have accepted. But I guess it could be.

 

[Patrick]

When the meter does finally run out, it's bad. I get cranky and irritable, and feel mentally and physically exhausted. I don't want anyone touching me or even talking to me. I almost feel like I'm on the verge of tears. It's like I become a walking exposed nerve, and every second I'm around other people, it's like someone is touching that nerve over and over again.

That sounds just like something my INTJ wife would say, but I can't relate to it at all. I'm far more reserved than she is, but my "social energy meter" just runs along like the Energizer bunny.

I have to believe it's an F vs T difference (or an FP vs TJ difference). Whatever state I'm in, I'm always attuned to people and feelings, so as long as it's just people mingling, I'm good to keep going.

What might drain me and start wearing on my nerves, I guess, would be something like a business meeting. If I had to sit around discussing strategy for the implementation and release of some commercial product I couldn't care less about (even if it was a multi-million-dollar top priority for my company and meant career advancement for me), I'd be hard-pressed to keep paying attention. Unless I were asked how I felt about it or how I thought we could make it more consumer-friendly, I'd just want to get out of the meeting ASAP.

 

[Luv Deluxe]

[MENTION=4827]Patrick[/MENTION] - After reading your responses, I would like to say that you do seem like an introvert to me. Maybe there's something more than the idea of anxiety alone here that's throwing you off; maybe there's some other nonsense at play, too, like the prevalent exaggerations that introverts are low-key hermits who don't like human interaction, ever.

Your lack of energy drain isn't a sign of being an extrovert, I don't think, as it sounds like you're happy enough to be on your own anyway. (I know I've said this in another thread, but the "recharge your batteries!" phrase is so overused and misleading. Everyone needs down time eventually.)

I find it interesting that I'm the only one who's responded to the survey as a non-anxious introvert thus far. I really do think neuroticism is its own thing, and even that there are different kinds of neuroticism; I keep my generalized anxiety (usually) compartmentalized so well that I can talk about it without feeling it...and I tend to score low on tests that measure neuroticism. The kind of fear I have is very existential, difficult to describe. If your poll had asked for anxious introverts without specifying the type of anxiety, then I would have had to choose the same as the others did.

(I'm sorry for such a short, delayed response. I've been working really hard to prepare for a long trip and I leave in a few hours. )

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Anxiety is an unhealthy state of mind that can definitely blur your true MBTI type. I can see why you think introversion and anxiety might be linked in the not healthy state and it can really be an issue. After all, any kind of mental illness distorts the results.

 

[ceecee]

I'm definitely introverted and, much like your wife, I have to recharge every day. If not, I'm not very pleasant to be around and/or I tend to shut down. I'm not anxious or shy though. There is a difference between - I'm shy and feel uncomfortable talking to people vs I don't wish to interact with you at the moment.

This is also where being an 8 comes into play. I can socialize, I can even happily be in charge of things that are heavily social. I do that all the time. I have work meetings every other week. I know that others need that face to face thing (I work remotely) and I come prepared with topics and points to add to the discussion or suggestions or whatever the meeting topics are. Not because I feel I have to but when these meetings are slow getting started, it's a waste of time for everyone.

My husband isn't an super extroverted E - this is a real plus for both of us. He is gone for work a fair amount so I'm home alone or with a couple of our kids but they're in their teens. It's always been this way so I'm accustomed to it and I look forward to it. When he is here we do things together but I never suggest adding people to our plans if we go out on our boat or take a day trip somewhere. We have friends and neighbors over for dinner and drinks fairly regularly in the summer but they're never here more than 2-3 hrs.

 

[nonsequitur]

Some recent research has suggested that there are different types of introversion that are not mutually exclusive.

There's even a test.

I'm highly introverted but not anxious - what they'd call a "social introvert".

 

[Patrick]

Anxiety is an unhealthy state of mind that can definitely blur your true MBTI type. I can see why you think introversion and anxiety might be linked in the not healthy state and it can really be an issue. After all, any kind of mental illness distorts the results.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a mental illness. For me, it's no more so than any Enneagram type would be. Yeah, the Enneagram type (Six, in my case) is a fixation that's holding the individual back and ought to be worked at and overcome. But meanwhile it's not debilitating; it's just a somewhat stressful quirk in an otherwise healthy, normal life.

IME lots and lots of reasonably healthy people are shy. And shyness no doubt skews the results of personality questionnaires toward Introversion. The question then becomes, How much is true Introversion (in the Jungian sense), and how much is shyness, anxiety, neuroticism, or something of that nature?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a mental illness. For me, it's no more so than any Enneagram type would be. Yeah, the Enneagram type (Six, in my case) is a fixation that's holding the individual back and ought to be worked at and overcome. But meanwhile it's not debilitating; it's just a somewhat stressful quirk in an otherwise healthy, normal life.

IME lots and lots of reasonably healthy people are shy. And shyness no doubt skews the results of personality questionnaires toward Introversion. The question then becomes, How much is true Introversion (in the Jungian sense), and how much is shyness, anxiety, neuroticism, or something of that nature?

Introversion in jungian sense is simply a preference of first dealing with the self and therefore withdrawing from the objective to the subjective nature of the ego. It has nothing to do with social shyness, neuroticism or anxiety. It only means you're orriented on the ego more than on your enviroment and therefor you're more subjective, than objective.

 

[Patrick]

I'm definitely introverted and, much like your wife, I have to recharge every day. If not, I'm not very pleasant to be around and/or I tend to shut down. I'm not anxious or shy though. There is a difference between - I'm shy and feel uncomfortable talking to people vs I don't wish to interact with you at the moment.

This is also where being an 8 comes into play. . . .

Enneagram type 8 figures into my wife's tritype somewhere. So, she's probably a bit like you in some ways.

She sometimes tells me, "You're not a true introvert; you're just an extravert who got hurt in childhood and withdrew." My response is, "Yeah, but I withdrew; that's the key. If I'd been a true extrovert, I'd have sprung back somehow--I'd have had to." My natural inclination was to turn inward, and being prompted by external pressure just fed into that.

With that "8 energy" in her, though, she wouldn't have ever been threatened or hurt; if anything she'd have done the threatening and hurting. So it's hard for her to understand my "6 energy" response (of course, I could have been "counterphobic" about it--and sometimes I was--but the anxiety is still there).

 

[Patrick]

Introversion in jungian sense is simply a preference of first dealing with the self and therefore withdrawing from the objective to the subjective nature of the ego. It has nothing to do with social shyness, neuroticism or anxiety. It only means you're orriented on the ego more than on your enviroment and therefor you're more subjective, than objective.

Sure. But what percentage of people who take personality tests approach them with that in mind? If you're asked, "Do you prefer to spend time alone, or with others?" you answer "alone" whether it's because of the official Jungian preference or because of shyness.

Same thing if you're asked about being drained of energy when you have to mingle with others. If you're like me, you're more "on guard" around others, so your energy might seem to be higher; but it takes energy to keep it up, so you get fatigued after a while. And yet it might be that none of that has anything to do with Jungian introversion per se.

When I discuss the experience of Introversion with other Introverts, what most of them say seems like only a tiny, insignificant part of what it's like for me. I do have that Jungian introversion, but it pales in comparison to what Enneagram type Six does to me inside.