DRAMA

[Virtual ghost]

I don't see the problem here.

Of course you don't, but you as well as me belong to one fairly small group of people that is exception to the rule here.
Plus as I said: I am biased, I am from pretty emotionally expressive culture.

 

[Norexan]

I will repeat myself - nothing absolves you from guilt when acting on free will. That's the natural order. Why do you think Germans have been feeling so guilty after the WWII? Because they were also there, participating, they let it happen.

It is nonsense that you have a free will in army and btw I think you are bit of naive assuming that people actually "have a head". You should never have any guilt for you have done for your state. That's your job. Otherwise we have to put in jail all workers, all solders because someone's bad decisions. lol.. This is not justice. That's what manipulators and tyrants do. When they have to pay for what they have done they turn pyramid upside down!

 

[Virtual ghost]

It is nonsense that you have a free will in army and btw I think you are bit of naive assuming that people actually "have a head". You should never have any guilt for you have done for your state. That's your job. Otherwise we have to put in jail all workers, all solders because someone's bad decisions. lol.. This is not justice. That's what manipulators and tyrants do. When they have to pay for what they have done they turn pyramid upside down!

My part of the world saw many wars and mass desertion was pretty common in most of them. Since people simply didn't want to have something to do with evidently amoral systems. There were even examples of rebels/deserters crashing the government that is evidently on the "wrong side of history". Therefore I don't agree, having a brain is always an option if you want it. While state is abstract term and the top of hierarchy always have a face and name.

 

[Norexan]

My part of the world saw many wars and mass desertion was pretty common in most of them. Since people simply didn't want to have nothing to do with evidently amoral systems. There were even examples of rebels/deserters crashing the government that is evidently on the "wrong side of history". Therefore I don't agree, having a brain is always an option if you want it. While state is abstract term and the top of hierarchy always have a face and name.

You misunderstand civil rights and soldiers rights. If solders are taught to "use their brain" instead to act on command that will cause chaos in system. What you stand for it is classical example for betrayal of state.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You misunderstand civil rights and soldiers rights. If solders are taught to "use their brain" instead to act on command that will cause chaos in system. What you stand for it is classical example for betrayal of state.

But I want "chaos in the system". My country would not even exist in the case that everything was done by the book and we would still have openly totalitarian government at this point.


No one would be more happy than me if all soldiers turn on all those who lead entire countries into pointless abyss. Since not all wars are worth the fight and situations can be evaluated if there is freedom of information. This is pretty high expectation but a man can wish. This certainly would have spared all of us much drama since we would have hundreds of dead instead of millions of dead in each war. Not to mention huge infrastructural damage, mass PTSD and everything that comes with the mix.

 

[Norexan]

But I want "chaos in the system". My country would not even exist in the case that everything was done by the book and we would still have openly totalitarian government at this point.

You speak about revolution. Problem in the top. That's another story. I am talking about healthy functioning system. Imagine, you are officer and there are 10.000 voices with their opinion lol.
Of course there are ethics in military but there are also consequences for disobedience and then it doesn't matter are you right or you speak the truth.

 

[Lib]

It is nonsense that you have a free will in army and btw I think you are bit of naive assuming that people actually "have a head". You should never have any guilt for you have done for your state. That's your job. Otherwise we have to put in jail all workers, all solders because someone's bad decisions. lol.. This is not justice. That's what manipulators and tyrants do. When they have to pay for what they have done they turn pyramid upside down!

I'm not so sure what you are trying to prove with this - that people are puppets? No, it's only if they believe they are regardless of the situation.

And the guilt is always there. Ask the Germans.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You speak about revolution. Problem in the top. That's another story. I am talking about healthy functioning system. Imagine, you are officer and there are 10.000 voices with their opinion lol. Of course there are ethics in military but there are also consequences for disobedience and then it doesn't matter are you right or you speak the truth.

Yes I am talking about this because in most countries and through history the political picture behind this wasn't too clear. The systems where everything works are more of a exception than the rule.
The point was that if you don't give those 10000 a decent explanation of why you are making the style of decisions you are making they have the self-preservation right to question your decisions. Using your head isn't a shame even if many want it to be this way. Sometimes you have to go to war but people should get the real reason why this is the case. Therefore if you have this on both sides the odds of war are actually pretty slim in most cases, since war in almost all cases starts with manipulation and lies.


Using your head is the ultimate anti-drama tool.

 

[Norexan]

And the guilt is always there. Ask the Germans.

Why do you feel guilt when you do just your job?

 

[Lib]

Why do you feel guilt when you do just your job?

Because everybody is responsible for what they are doing. It's in human psychology. I recommend you Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky.

 

[Norexan]

Yes I if you don't give those 10000 a decent explanation of why you are making the style of

Yeah, you have to give expiation to every soldier about your decisions. Sounds grate in theory but there is no place, not time for this in practice.

 

[Norexan]

Because everybody is responsible for what they are doing. It's in human psychology. I recommend you Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky.

No it is not! No if you are JOB to do this. And you just do what you need to do! Learn basic responsibilities of pyramid hierarchy.

 

[Lib]

No it is not! No if you are JOB is this. And you just do what you need to do! Learn basic responsibilities of pyramid hierarchy.

That's not how humans work, though. This is how we are taught to believe we work.

 

[Norexan]

That's not how humans work, though. This is how we are taught to believe we work.

But THIS IS how human law and every system works.
You cannot put guilt the gun for the crime but the one who shoot it.
And low ranking people in every hierarchy are the guns!

 

[Red Memories]

So this is coming from someone who ends up at the center of drama usually. I think it is actually something somewhat related to personality aspects in a way. Like say...two friends sitting somewhere and both share in a common dislike of a certain thing, but one form a fight out of it and the other doesn't respond. I'm that friend who makes a shit show. Personally, I feel if you never speak up for anything you don't really believe in anything because if you did, you'd stand for it and stand for what you believe is right. In turn I can get assertive and somewhat aggressive about certain negative things occurring and throw myself into drama. Another thing is trying too hard to be a mediator. I analyze a situation and tell them where they both are screwing up and I usually create a make up situation formed in the form of throwing shit at me. Being a mediator is hard man. XD

but I speak this form: if you are someone very passionate about beliefs and idealistic in wanting to see the change, and you are someone who attempts to mediate a lot and ends up in the center, you'll have a tendency to find drama in your life whether you look for it or not.

 

[Yuurei]

A good example of a dramatic reaction: family whom I never hear from calling me every day since I’ve been in the hospital even though I’ve though I’ve told them “ I’m fine.”

It seems like “ Oh, they just care about you.” But nah, it’s about them. They will use it as an excuse to slack off at work or , considering the timing, a sub-par Thanksgiving dinner “ Oh I've just been stressed about my niece/ granduaghter ect.”

We all know people like thar...right? Yeah that is drama, taking something that is not an issue and making it an issue.

 

[Metis]

A good example of a dramatic reaction: family whom I never hear from calling me every day since I’ve been in the hospital even though I’ve though I’ve told them “ I’m fine.”

It seems like “ Oh, they just care about you.” But nah, it’s about them. They will use it as an excuse to slack off at work or , considering the timing, a sub-par Thanksgiving dinner “ Oh I've just been stressed about my niece/ granduaghter ect.”

We all know people like thar...right? Yeah that is drama, taking something that is not an issue and making it an issue.

An example of the connection between interpersonal drama and acting/theater.

 

[Magnus]

I’ve been meaning to start this thread for a while.

I’ve noticed, in both my personal and professional life, that people will gravitate towards interpersonal drama given the opportunity. This is something I’ve witnessed on the forums I’ve been on as well.

I might try to quantify it in both cases, in real life using time and on forums using posts, it seems to heavily weigh towards drama when it’s around.

I have a theory about this. I think it’s because interpersonal drama or conflict is something that is easy for everyone to relate to and provide input on. It’s natural. It’s easy. I think people do it because it’s easier than trying to fix more complicated problems. A lot of problems I’ve seen, be it workplace or personal have really complicated and time consuming solutions, they take time and commitment to work on and often collaboration, but it can be easier to pick a different fight and give the appearance of having a “win”.

I’m kind of curious what the members here think about this and if they’ve witnessed the same thing and hopefully in a way that keeps it on topic.

Drama has a funny way of getting spread all over the place. Me, I love watching drama and social awkwardness... as long as they're not about me.

 

[Lark]

But THIS IS how human law and every system works.
You cannot put guilt the gun for the crime but the one who shoot it.
And low ranking people in every hierarchy are the guns!

WTF does whoever created that speak Chinese or something? What the hell is Rensposibility or hiearcchy?

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Drama has a funny way of getting spread all over the place. Me, I love watching drama and social awkwardness... as long as they're not about me.

What do you love about it?

 

[Magnus]

WTF does whoever created that speak Chinese or something? What the hell is Rensposibility or hiearcchy?

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What do you love about it?

They generally only happen to people who invite chaos into their lives. Watching them get what's coming to them is somehow satisfying. I don't know why.