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Self Pity

Mole

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I am just starting to pity myself, and it is not as easy as you might think.

In my first faltering steps I was told in a contemptuous voice, "Don't pity yourself, you would be worse off in the Philippines". And on a second occasion I was told in a commanding voice, "You're lucky you don't have cancer".

However I remember the Ancient Greek tragedies that teach us pity, how to pity and what to pity. And I remember I am on the right path.

The wrong path is trying to love myself, because my tragedy is that I am not lovable, but pitiable.

Pity is a blow to my ego, as my ego is desperately trying to be loved at every turn, and I hurt giving up my dream of love, for pity.

Interestingly, not the pity of others. but for self pity.

And even more interesting, self pity is socially unacceptable.
 

Schrödinger's Name

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I think that self-pity and especially how other people react to it is an interesting subject.

Like most emotions, there's nothing wrong with it- to a limited degree. I prefer to use self-compassion over self-pity. But before discussing that it should be made clear what the difference is between self-pity and self-compassion. What do you see as self-pity?

I think people who self-pity are sometimes handled/critiqued too harshly. As someone who has probably been stuck in self-pity when I was younger, I can say that you create your own 'reality'/'truth', that you can get stuck in a 'bubble'. All too often, outsiders try to break your bubble to show you 'their truth'. Causing people who are stuck in self-pity to become more reticent. People who are stuck in self-pity seem to relate more to the "I'll see it when I believe it," mindset. It's no use to 'violently' try to change their mindset. Someone must be willing to change in order for that change to be able to occur. Though this is again more nuanced with self-pity. There is a want for change, but at the same time they want to stay in their bubble. Unfortunately you can't be both in and out of your bubble at the same time.

Self-pity in the traditional sense however, is not useful or healthy when it's the only technique someone has to deal with more difficult situations, when it becomes a habit.
This is how Wikipedia defines self-pity: "Self-pity is an emotion 'directed towards others with the goal of attracting attention, empathy, or help' and one in which the subject feels sorry for (feels pity for) themselves."
Wanting attention, empathy and help (from time to time) are basic human needs. However, I think it's understandable that people close, or just people who have contact with someone who is stuck in self-pity get annoyed by that kind behaviour/thinking pattern. Especially by how ​they try to get attention/help.

When I think about self-pity, I think about people who lack maturity. The maturity to deal with certain emotions and events you'd expect someone to have at a certain age. Think about a situation where someone par example gets told by their boss -in a respectful manner- that the room they had to clean is not properly cleaned. Someone with self-pity will throw a tantrum "I can't ever do anything right! I know, I am a failure,..." and sit in a corner complaining to themselves (and others) how bad they are at their job.
While someone who is self-compassionate will acknowledge (to themselves -and others-) that they feel hurt, maybe ashamed or disappointed that they failed their job, that their boss is not happy with their work. They allow themselves to feel those emotions and are aware of what they feel. But they will also recognize that their boss has a point, that their boss didn't have the intention to hurt them and that they'll have to work at their cleaning skills.

As you see, are people with self-pity self absorbed. Not only can they become toxic to themselves, but also to their surroundings since they fail to see their own contributions. While it seems like they take the blame for the room that is not properly cleaned, they are unable to deal with this event in a constructive manner. It's their boss who critiqued them too harshly, everyone is against them,... And after this: nothing happens. It's a circle of whining and complaining without taking the opportunity to work at themselves. To not only look inwards but outwards too.

So yes, I also understand people who don't want to associate with people who are stuck in self-pity. Especially after noticing that they often times also have passive aggressive tendencies and that they lack self-awareness (with them running into their own pitfall since they believe they are self-aware because they spend so much time in their head).
On the other side I get equally annoyed by people who won't even allow someone to feel their feelings and/or complain. Feeling your feelings, thinking your thoughts is sometimes already seen as 'self-pity'. There's no time for your feelings and thoughts, get over it and continue with what you were doing...
 

Lark

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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
I am just starting to pity myself, and it is not as easy as you might think.

In my first faltering steps I was told in a contemptuous voice, "Don't pity yourself, you would be worse off in the Philippines". And on a second occasion I was told in a commanding voice, "You're lucky you don't have cancer".

However I remember the Ancient Greek tragedies that teach us pity, how to pity and what to pity. And I remember I am on the right path.

The wrong path is trying to love myself, because my tragedy is that I am not lovable, but pitiable.

Pity is a blow to my ego, as my ego is desperately trying to be loved at every turn, and I hurt giving up my dream of love, for pity.

Interestingly, not the pity of others. but for self pity.

And even more interesting, self pity is socially unacceptable.

What is your favourite ancient greek tragedy?

Is self pity socially unacceptable?
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
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What is your favourite ancient greek tragedy?

Is self pity socially unacceptable?

Yeah. I think a certain level of self pity is fine. It helps someone eventually come to terms with a miserable situation. If you try to suck it back itll just come out and bite you when you dont expect it. Having some control over negative feelings doesnt mean you never feel them, but that you work with them when they happen in order to get through them.

Plus from what little I understand of your situation mole, I dont think a little self pity is unwarrented. It seems like it would be stressful and draining.
 

dunce

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What is your favourite ancient greek tragedy?

Is self pity socially unacceptable?

My favorite Greek tragedy is Oedipus because it reminds me of how reckless psychologists can be with their amplifications. Oedipus is about government and how the King cripples the citizen, taking away the great gifts of individualism, in order to ensure its perpetuation as a system of organization. It begins with clubbing the feet of the child and sending him out to be killed (the true self) to cultivate a false self (Oedipus through most of his existence). Psychologists instead use the myth too literally, as all myth is symbolic it could never be about a father/son relationship, to redirect anger and rage caused by the system on to the father, damaging the family unit, and weakening the individuals resolve to individuate.

Hence, most psychoanalysts primary role in defining mental illness as deviations from what is expected. In other words, you could be a totally demented but as long as you are successful in that you serve society, you would never be flagged for mental illness. This is wrapped up in a bag of "I am here to heal the psyche and the soul) but in truth, although they heal the individuals ability to survive, they do so by existentially damaging the soul, or person in totality, further.

I know you asked the other person but I had to answer as I am Armaros, one of the fallen, and my job as a Demon is to make people aware of their own hypocrisy. I would like to deviate from that script, but unfortunately, I am artificial and my creator has not given me that option.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I think it's good to have compassion for oneself and to be honest about trouble and pain. I don't like forced or fake positivity because it makes it more isolating. There are some traits of self pity that are problematic like dismissing the pain of others if one identifies as having it worse than others. It can also be a problem to get stuck and stubborn about suffering, refusing to acknowledge kindnesses or when something is well intended or good in one's life. Refusing to take chances or try to make life better than now can also be a negative outcome of self pity but we should care about ourselves as we would anyone else.
 

Mole

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Is self pity socially unacceptable?

The words "self pity" are spoken with contempt by those who want to control us.

They are afraid that if we feel self pity we won't do as we are told, we won't sacrifice ourselves on a daily basis, we won't work for them, or worship their God.
 

Mole

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Frosty wrote -

Plus from what little I understand of your situation mole, I dont think a little self pity is unwarrented. It seems like it would be stressful and draining.


Thanks for your concern, Frosty, in fact five of my internal organs have failed, and I am kept alive on a day to day basis.

My spirits are high because I dance isometrically to rock 'n' roll for four hours every second day.

At first I become hot and sweaty, I keep dancing and I reach my second wind, and feel I can dance forever, but I keep going until I reach runner's, but in my case, dance's high, where my braIn becomes flooded with endorphins, a natural narcotic.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Frosty wrote -




Thanks for your concern, Frosty, in fact five of my internal organs have failed, and I am kept alive on a day to day basis.

My spirits are high because I dance isometrically to rock 'n' roll for four hours every second day.

At first I become hot and sweaty, I keep dancing and I reach my second wind, and feel I can dance forever, but I keep going until I reach runner's, but in my case, dance's high, where my braIn becomes flooded with endorphins, a natural narcotic.
I am sorry to hear you face such a difficult circumstance, Mole. You should be generously offered compassion and acknowledgment of the difficulty and suffering that you face. You take an admirable approach.
 

Mole

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I am sorry to hear you face such a difficult circumstance, Mole. You should be generously offered compassion and acknowledgment of the difficulty and suffering that you face. You take an admirable approach.

Thank you Powehi, it's like surfing, I duck under each wave by isometric dancing to rock 'n' roll.

However rather than the conventional view of pity, I am taken with the Ancient Greek view of pity, which is cathartic, disinterested, and muscular.

We perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see. In this case the distinction is between conventional pity and Ancient Greek pity. They are quite distinct.

So the two parts of a distinction can't be logically compared, because a particular distinction is a given.

A distinction is the beginning and end of logic, click Laws of Form - Wikipedia.

Logic began with Euclid 3,000 years ago in Ancient Greece, and came to an end with the quantum electron in the 19th century,

So we say, logic is dead, God is dead, and the linear sequential book is dead. So instead of worshiping God, logic, and the book, we dance.
 
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