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You and me we live on opposite ends of the personality spectrum. If we were in the wild I would attack you. If I was a lion and you were a gazelle I would maul you and drag you back to my cave to eat you.
It knows shit you don't. Like the fact that people don't belong in boxes. And since you're so into stereotyping: even MBTI will tell you so; we're the Yin to Your ISTP Yang. And when it comes to people, and how to understand and work with them, you're on our turf. We're the social animal, here. Unless you plan to eat that 6 instead of date it.
How does one reconcile with the fact that the lion needs to eat the gazelle? I mean it'll starve, and besides humanizing the food would mean that you would develop empathy for them, and thus the lions will have nothing to eat, because I don't think they are vegetarians. Thus they are dead. Also Lions are social animals too, baby killing rapist social animals but neither the less.
How does one reconcile with the fact that the lion needs to eat the gazelle? I mean it'll starve, and besides humanizing the food would mean that you would develop empathy for them, and thus the lions will have nothing to eat, because I don't think they are vegetarians. Thus they are dead. Also Lions are social animals too, baby killing rapist social animals but neither the less.
You and me we live on opposite ends of the personality spectrum. If we were in the wild I would attack you. If I was a lion and you were a gazelle I would maul you and drag you back to my cave to eat you.
I'm not the one who put them in boxes. I just know what their box is. No different than knowing someone's height and hair colour. Most girls don't like short guys is that discrimination? It's not any different than what I do so get off your high horses you guys make me sick.
There's a difference between choosing to date people because you think they're an ENFJ and choosing to date people because you like their personalities and who they are as people.
LOL, guys, this conversation is making me laugh.
[MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION] I can't speak for certain about your potential 6 girl, but why don't you gather some data on her personally? Sixes can indeed be laid back, and my experience with them is they're far more inclined to always see what's going wrong than to focus on the rules. See what you can discover about her, and hopefully, share the findings.
[MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION] I can't speak for certain about your potential 6 girl, but why don't you gather some data on her personally? Sixes can indeed be laid back, and my experience with them is they're far more inclined to always see what's going wrong than to focus on the rules. See what you can discover about her, and hopefully, share the findings.
Yea so far she has been paranoid about hidden agendas. Pretty sure she's an ESTP 864. I don't know I will probably decide on a last minute whim as usual.
Yea so far she has been paranoid about hidden agendas. Pretty sure she's an ESTP 864. I don't know I will probably decide on a last minute whim as usual.
I'm trying to figure out if I should avoid dating this girl who has some 6 influence. I tend to clash with 6s because they seem to be all about following the rules. Not sure if its because of a maturity thing or if they can be laid back too.
I think 6s seem to run the gamut. We tend to be more mature in terms of being aware and cautious and less mature in terms of being overreactive. A healthy 6 can be more laid back but almost all 6s will snap quickly and firmly into vigilance when they feel seriously threatened. A mature 6 will be secure and relaxed in the sense of feeling that they can handle whatever life is going to throw at them, but even they will become serious and tense when they feel under attack. I don't think I've ever encountered a 6 who's as laid back as a 9, but then, 6s also don't fall prey to the 9 issue of sweeping problems under the rug.
As for the rules, 6s like to know the rules inside out, so then we can make informed decisions about following or breaking them. We like to know what the fallout of a situation is going to be, so we study and learn rules and consequences to add to our data banks. We are control freaks over the future, in a way. Accordingly, we tend to be very specific about which rules we break and when and how and why. I would say the percentage of 6s that blindly follow rules must be quite small... even the most phobic 6 I know is just really quiet about breaking the rules, and flips out when anyone calls her on it, so she basically never gets in trouble (she's annoying). She does break rules, but just is extremely strategic about it.
In terms of type relations that would be relevant to you, my brother's ISTP 9 and we've never had any clash rules-wise. He's a little more liberal than me but I don't really take issue with him doing whatever, I just get nervous about the potential consequences. I might caution him (I am the older sibling, so that's sort of a lifelong role), but I don't stop him. He's introduced me to some neat and fun stuff and I appreciate that. My father's an INTP 5w6 539 and he's actually more of a rule follower than me; I think it must be the 3 in him. He doesn't break rules unless it comes to alcohol or speed limits, lol. And personally I used to be more of a rebel when I was a teenager, anyway, and have calmed down in general since then, so it might be some influence of age, too - I wouldn't be surprised if other 6s are like that, too. I have definitely become increasingly stable since a rough hyperreactive patch in my late teenage years.
In terms of dating... my SO is a 9. I think he can put up with a lot of my 6 crap because his natural tendency is to neutralize and minimize problems, and his influence is helpful to me. I do think my 6 skills come in handy at times - we don't do sweeping under the rug in the relationship; we talk about things up front and we talk through conflict. I tend to grab helpful things for him even when he forgets, and I'm the planner, which he prefers. I have previously been in a relationship with a 3w4, which was hard because whereas my 9 will speak rationally with me when I am distressed, the 3w4 would voice disapproval of my emotional response and would disengage. I have always liked speaking with my 5 father when I am distressed, because focusing on information is reassuring, so I think that I personally would do well with a 5. Whether the 5 would do well with me is a different story.
For you, I do think it would help to ensure that the 6 / w6 is an academic/intellectual sort. If they are, that's a huge bonding point. If they're not, it's probably going to be a struggle. The phobic 6 I mentioned above is not and it drives me crazy because she is so fast to believe hype and poor-quality information. I cannot imagine a 5 and that sort of 6 sustaining any relationship for long.
Here is what Riso-Hudson says about the 5-6 matchup:
What Each Type Brings to the Relationship
Both Enneagram Fives and Sixes are mental types, although there are significant differences. Both have respect for the intellectual acumen of the other and the expertise and technical mastery the other possesses. They may well begin a relationship as colleagues or by sharing the same professional area of interest which forms the basis for a friendship and eventually something more intimate. Both types respect detail, factual objectivity and accuracy, craftsmanship, and the ability to analyze situations without inserting personal opinions or biases. As a pair, Fives and Sixes can be highly effective in dealing with crises because both are attuned to danger and to bringing their expertise to solve problems.
Fives also offer emotional calm, detached objectivity, observational skills, an unusual and penetrating curiosity, and an unwillingness to settle for easy answers. Sixes bring strongly held values and ideas that make them less objective than Fives although they are more passionate. Their very emotional reactivity—including anxiety and fear-gives Sixes a more sympathetic, human quality. Sixes are more openly unsure of themselves and often look to authorities of some kind (including the Fives they trust) to give them guidance and advice. Fives tend to be surer of their ability to think for themselves and to entertain new ideas. Fives also tend to be more skeptical and rejecting of authority. Fives are accepting of Sixes' changing needs for independence with connection; they are also patient with the Six's vacillations. The devotion of Sixes and understated caring can break through the Five's tendency to isolate. Thus, Fives and Sixes, as a pair, tend to have a symbiotic intellectual relationship of doubt and decision, questions and answers, problems solved and problems discovered that can be endlessly stimulating. In any event, for a relationship between these two opposite head types to work, there must be a tested and unshakable trust between them: they may often come to different conclusions, but they at least know that their hearts and minds are in the right place.
Potential Trouble Spots or Issues
The potential trouble spots between Fives and Sixes have already been hinted at above. In short, Fives and Sixes tend to think in diametrically opposite ways and often are on the opposite side of the fence in their conclusions. There will be a good deal of intellectual and emotional tension between them, for better or worse. Sixes tend to look to precedents for guidance about how to proceed; they tend also to be more guided by rules and procedures and protocols, building their arguments and marshalling their facts meticulously, if sometimes ponderously, so that they can feel unassailable. Fives tend to take greater intellectual leaps of the imagination and to consider less or not at all what has been the received wisdom or common consensus of opinion.
Once trust and communication break down, Fives can begin to see Sixes as too conservative and indecisive in their thinking and actions. Sixes get nervous about making a mistake and do not want to be criticized (much less ostracized) for their efforts. They can seem to be prejudiced and not open minded, petty and political, playing favorites and trying to please authorities rather than seek the objective truth. To Sixes, Fives can seem excessively independent, unwilling and constitutionally unable to work within a system or group. Sixes feel that Fives are needlessly provocative and have useless, strange ideas that are impractical and a waste of time. Sixes want to build security by having something clear to believe in; Fives want to find the objective facts, whether or not it makes them feel secure. Fives do not need Sixes' discouraging wet blanket approach. Sixes do not need Fives' endlessly vivid imagination for darkness and catastrophe. Each can feed each other's sense of powerlessness and hopelessness. Fives can see Sixes as closed-minded drudges and fanatics, whereas Sixes see Fives as weird, isolated, and hopelessly impractical. Without intentionality and hard work, this pair of emotional opposites might feel they were better off as colleagues than intimate partners: one wants to put out fires, the other wants to play with matches.
I hope that addresses some of what you were getting at. Let me know if I can clarify anything.