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Why cant they make anything like Ghostbusters now?

Lark

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OK, first, I'm not talking specifically about the latest Ghostbusters movie with the female cast, too much has been written about that movie already, I didnt see it. Largely for the same reasons as James Rolfe of Cinnemassacre, said about the lack of original features and the mining of movies in a sort of nostalgia industry.

It had nothing to do with the female casting decisions (I dont think that is as radical as anyone makes out, it didnt have any significance for me, I think most movies make those sorts of casting decisions these days and if that's the main talking point of your movie then your movie may not be any good, its the same as that pic of the guy in the post for Ready Player One with the really long leg, its like studios will try anything, court any sort of controversy or triviality to get attention because it pays).

Anyway, my question is why cant they make movies like Ghostbusters anymore? It was a great original concept, it was funny and more than your regular studio cash cow, they followed it with a good sequel too. Part of it is the casting, the talent could make a shit movie great in my opinion, I dont know if Bill Murray, or the others, were the icons that they've grown to be since but they were great, they've always been great.

I dont think studios can manage to pull something like these movies off today, The Goonies is another good example that I can think of too, when they tried a third movie, in the spirit of the first two Ghostbusters with Evolution, it came up short, I think I'm being charitable about that as it was alright, everyone I was with complained about it when we were leaving the cinema but I thought it was as good as a lot of other movies I've had to sit through.

Of the two movie story arcs that I've thought were good this last while, Hunger Games and Divergent, the story/plot was what I really found interesting, I mean the politics of gladiatorial games and exploitative provincialism, on the one hand, and, on the other, government by a futuristic typological factionalism arising from mistakes in futuristic genetic engineering? I never ever would have given "young adult" or "teen" genre's the credit of coming up with either of those back drops, the talent is fine in either movie but I do think that you could reshoot them with someone else and its going to be the same movie, the subtexts about relationships, character development, I kind of think of as secondary to that of the plot and plot progression, although that's maybe just me.

Also, do you think that cinematic releases are not what they once were? Or is it just that I've grown up and am giving my attention to other things? Like I remember the launch of Tim Burton's Batman reboot, it was huge, lots of build up, lots time afterwards until it had "faded", games tie ins, TV tie ins, interviews, hype, merchandising, trading cards, sticker albums, the whole nine yards and it was ubiquitous too. I dont get a feel that movies are like that anymore. When there is a big release it feels like "hmm, yeah, well, it is a saturday" or something like that.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Well, some have argued Ghostbusters ‘84 is itself a remake. Or at least highly derivative of Spook Busters. It also owes a lot to other “golden age” comedy like Laurel and Hardy. But I agree it successfully reimagined an old idea rather than trying to capitalize on nostalgia, as the newest GB did while laughingly presenting itself as something new.

Wikipedia said:
In addition to a similar title, the movie shares the premise of professional "exterminators" on a paranormal mission with The Bowery Boys slapstick comedy Spook Busters (1946, directed by William Beaudine) as well as with the 1937 Disney short Lonesome Ghosts. Lonesome Ghosts includes the line "I ain't scared of no ghost".

I’ve no problem with remakes that do this well (see The Thing ‘82 or The Fly ‘86, both of which remade older films yet did do in a manner that was original and allowed them to stand the test of time as their own unique takes on old ideas). If you look closely enough, most “original” stories are remakes or variations on older stories.

I enjoyed the first The Hangover film not for its originality so much as its unique spin on a somewhat tired and often done genre. If you haven’t seen it then I recommend it as one of the better comedy films to come out in recent years
 
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The suits want to play it safe. Cashing in on what worked before isn’t a risk. Unfortunately it leads to a stagnant entertainment industry and a dead art form.

What amazes me is that they seem to take away the wrong aspects of what worked before. They miss the point of what made a film great. And some things (many) just can’t be replicated, especially the chemistry of crews and cast or even the spirit of the time in which something was created.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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The suits want to play it safe. Cashing in on what worked before isn’t a risk. Unfortunately it leads to a stagnant entertainment industry and a dead art form.

What amazes me is that they seem to take away the wrong aspects of what worked before. They miss the point of what made a film great. And some things (many) just can’t be replicated, especially the chemistry of crews and cast or even the spirit of the time in which something was created.

The suits are idiots, some of the most profitable remakes in film history were more than just cut-and-paste remakes. I know it wasn’t OP’s desire to get into a Ghostbusters 2016 discussion but there was a lot of potential there to take a really unique spin on the premise set up in the 84 version (which as already noted was itself a remake of sorts). It really felt directionless and play-it-safe.

I think vision distinguishes good from bad when it comes to storytelling. This is true in the case of both remakes and “original” stories.

To tie in what the OP is talking about, I partially blame “the Stranger Things effect,” Not to say that’s a bad show, but I think nostalgia played as large a role (maybe bigger) in its success as other factors like story, originality, talent, execution, etc.

There’s always a big gamble with breaking too much from a winning formula I suppose but look at Kingsman and the Man From UNCLE remake. Both aiming for similar types of stories but one did it more effectively, with arguably more originality and will probably inhabit more movie collections on shelves, while the other will be inhabiting bargain discount sections in box stores
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Also to answer OP last question, I think it’s usually just a symptom of aging and the cynicism that often comes with it that we don’t always look on new movies as fondly as those from our youth. And I think as adults, yes, it’s often a matter of being focused on other things, whereas as a kid, it is easier to devote a larger chunk of attention to a new movie and all the surrounding hype and marketing.

Sure, sometimes it really is the suits, like pop1 said, but that’s nothing new—the suits have been pushing by-the-numbers, unoriginal crap for as long as the film industry has existed. For every film considered a classic from any given year, there will probably be ten times as many forgettable, poorly made films. We just tend to forget about the bad ones as they sink into obscurity, but when a slew of recently made bad films are still fresh in our memories, I think it is very easy to think everything has gone downhill, that not as many good, original films are being made.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't think the '84 Ghostbusters was a perfect film, it had a lot of clunky/eh stuff. I think the jokes carried because of the casting, they meshed well together and and played into type. There was some memorable lines delivered well, despite the silliness and flat aspects... and it felt like fresh at the time. And damn, but they knew how to market it -- they branded it with the logo and the music, it is still part of the pop culture landscape decades later.

But yeah, people don't want to take risks anymore, especially if there's going to a high production cost involved. They're looking for little investment home-run hits, so of course they try to leverage old properties that already have in-roads with the marketing and public awareness rather than forging new trails to sell something new and get an audience on board. It's pretty sad when a movie that is one of the biggest money makers of a given year is still considered disappointing because the returns simply were not as high as they had projected on paper... or maybe the word should be "crazy."

I agree about "Stranger Things" too. I felt like their second season was better shaped and directed; the first season where they got all the buzz, I felt was just damned rough and I had trouble getting into it until the midpoint. It was really riding on the (1) Netflix accessibility, it had a huge built-in audience, (2) Stephen King connection, and (3) nostalgia even if some of it was wrong. (I ripped it up in the first episode for swiping Demogorgon for the D&D game, without bothering to actually read the Demogorgon material and seeing how the game they wrote for the episode didn't make any sense. That is the problem when people are just swiping nostalgia and riding on name recognition without understanding context.) But apparently the series was in the right place, right time, right audience, so it got big really fast.

It's hard to come up with new, original ideas that can be presented coherently. And then you need to get money and studio support to back them, unless you are independently funded or a bunch of small studios pool together and take a risk. It's always the dilemma between the art and the money. This is why we see a lot of book adaptations too -- they want to piggyback the movies off the built-in book audience, the marketing channels / awareness that has already existed, the material that already exists. Sometimes the material works, sometimes they tinker / dumb it down so much that it no longer appeals to their safe audience.

Out of all the YA stuff, I would say Hunger Games is one of the most successful / best. (I really thought Divergent sucked. The first movie was barely tolerable, it was poorly executed, only Woodward redeemed it; and they couldn't even finish the series because interest dropped so much.) Hunger Games series worked because they did follow the books pretty closely and Lawrence bridged the gap between the book's unlikable Katniss and the films, and the rest of the casting was pretty decent. Catching Fire was a really great adaptation that also pretty closely followed the book. The films never really felt cheapened from the books, except for maybe the very final shot which was far too rosy and not as bittersweet as it needed to be. Pretty much all the other YA stuff simply comes off as a knockoff of Hunger Games, both books and films.

Anyway good art has a kind of "spark" to it that makes it light up regardless of topical matter and medium. Adaptations sometimes lose the spark while trying to replicate the look and feel, or they try to monetize it and miss the point. Sometimes even the same directors can't even recapture what made their films good. For example, look at Ridley Scott trying to add more to the Alien mythos -- the first Alien was lightning in a bottle, totally against what usually makes a film popular (it takes 45 minutes to set up the main sequence of the film), yet it's considered a classic. Cameron successfully took the Alien mythos and made an action picture out of it that had heart and meaning and memorable characters. Then the series went down the tubes because they lost track of what made it good and/or how to tell a good story. Scott then revisited it in two pictures that actually have some decent elements and actors involved, and the TONE is often right... but Prometheus was edited into oblivion becoming silly and/or incoherent, and Covenant just felt too trite and rehashy despite again getting the tone right and having an adequate cast. At least with novels everything depends on one person (the author); in a film, it gets even HARDer, because you have actors, and a director, and the tech crew (cinematographer, lighting, etc.) set, costuming, music comp, film editing, sound editing, and so forth... SO many points of dependency that, if one breaks, the whole film will suffer a bit, some bits more than others.

I'm just saying film as a collaborative effort, well, sometimes it seems remarkable when things DO work and you get something stellar.
 

Obfuscate

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this covers a lot of that...


and this covers some reasons that even good movies can be buried...
 

Tellenbach

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There are plenty of great movies made in the past 10 years that are original and funny. Zombieland, Wreck-It Ralph, Kick-Ass, and Ready Player One are all better than the original Ghostbusters and Goonies, imho.
 

ceecee

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Fantastic Beasts and The Grand Budapest Hotel were charming.

E - So was Okja.

Moonrise Kingdom - being a Wes Anderson fan, this needs a mention.
Inception
No Country For Old Men
Life of Pi
The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises..

All made in the last 10 years, all unique and great. The only genre that truly sucks is horror. There is nothing original left and most of it is simply more gore than the last movie.
 

Qlip

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Moonrise Kingdom - being a Wes Anderson fan, this needs a mention.
Inception
No Country For Old Men
Life of Pi
The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises..

All made in the last 10 years, all unique and great. The only genre that truly sucks is horror. There is nothing original left and most of it is simply more gore than the last movie.

I haven't watched it yet, but Get Out has gotten a lot of acclaim for its originality. Maybe it's the only stand out, I don't know, it's not my genre.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Moon

That’s a good one.

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't watched it yet, but Get Out has gotten a lot of acclaim for its originality. Maybe it's the only stand out, I don't know, it's not my genre.

It’s good.
 

Totenkindly

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Moon was decent, I need to rewatch since it's been awhile. (Sam Rockwell for the win, too.)

I would like to say I liked Duncan Jones' films unequivocally (since he also made the decent "Source Code"), but then he had to go and do Warcraft the movie, lol. Wow. I think he's done something since, though, that I wanted to watch.

I haven't watched it yet, but Get Out has gotten a lot of acclaim for its originality. Maybe it's the only stand out, I don't know, it's not my genre.

I think it's a decent movie that speaks from a direction that isn't typical in film.

I do watch a lot of thrillers/horror flicks, though, and I felt it was solid but a little overpraised for a horror flick and was kinda ambivalent towards Peele winning an Oscar for the script considering some of the other stuff in the running.

However, I would like to see Peele make more movies.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I think it's a decent movie that speaks from a direction that isn't typical in film.

I do watch a lot of thrillers/horror flicks, though, and I felt it was solid but a little overpraised for a horror flick and was kinda ambivalent towards Peele winning an Oscar for the script considering some of the other stuff in the running.

However, I would like to see Peele make more movies.

I liked it because the metaphor for cultural appropriation, while kind of obvious, was handled more deftly and it felt haunting rather than preachy.
 

Totenkindly

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I really disagree with the diss on horror. There has been some really great stuff coming out in the last 2-3 years, although since it's a cheap genre you also get a bunch of schlock.

Other recent horror films of note:
The Witch (2015) (relentless dread, and made Anya Taylor-Joy a star), it's so freaking unique
A Quiet Place (2018) (beautiful sound recording and editing, it's put together well)
Raw (2016), although if you hate blood forget it...
Gerald's Game (2017) -- one of the better King adaptations, I was surprised, Gugino really shines
It Comes at Night (2017), it's great if you're into growing dread without necessarily a bunch of jump scares, it's got some depth to it

I really like It Follows, my only negative is that it got so talked up (like Get Out) that I tend to bristle a bit and then you get people criticizing it because it can't live up to its reputation. But as a comment on mortality? Wow. Unnerving.


I liked it because the metaphor for cultural appropriation, while kind of obvious, was handled more deftly and it felt haunting rather than preachy.

Yeah, I agree. The theme is so obvious, but... it was handled decently and the humor element helped too.
 

Totenkindly

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I think there are certain directors (like Wes Anderson, who was mentioned; and Paul Thomas Anderson, the Coen brothers, etc.) who put out interesting films because you never know what to expect next. I love that. Their films at least feel unique, even when they don't cross the bar. Steven Soderbergh is another.

But as the discussion in this thread goes, they sometimes don't make much money / draw a large audience unfortunately. I'm glad their films are generally lower budget so the studios can keep them making films. I can't find a budget for Isle of Dogs (2018) which I want to see, but it only made $39 million world-wide.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Moon was decent, I need to rewatch since it's been awhile. (Sam Rockwell for the win, too.)

I would like to say I liked Duncan Jones' films unequivocally (since he also made the decent "Source Code"), but then he had to go and do Warcraft the movie, lol. Wow. I think he's done something since, though, that I wanted to watch.



I think it's a decent movie that speaks from a direction that isn't typical in film.

I do watch a lot of thrillers/horror flicks, though, and I felt it was solid but a little overpraised for a horror flick and was kinda ambivalent towards Peele winning an Oscar for the script considering some of the other stuff in the running.

However, I would like to see Peele make more movies.

Did you see Mute? It’s visually awesome. The story was meh but I really enjoyed the cinematography and most of the acting. Especially Paul Rudd, he really broke his usual sarcastic-but-lovable-nice guy mold he gets typecasted as.

Also, there is a nice little Easter egg/reference about Moon towards the beginning.

Moon, I might be a little biased towards because I really love Sam Rockwell. Probably one of my favorite living male actors
 

ceecee

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I haven't watched it yet, but Get Out has gotten a lot of acclaim for its originality. Maybe it's the only stand out, I don't know, it's not my genre.

Get Out is great but I wouldn't call it a horror movie. I wouldn't put it in any genre, it's different enough to stand on its own.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Get Out is great but I wouldn't call it a horror movie. I wouldn't put it in any genre, it's different enough to stand on its own.

Psychological thriller?

I liked it because social commentary isn’t all that common in horrror films
 
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