Which function is the hardest for you to grasp?

[Dreamer]

Just curious [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] and [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION], but what would you guys say is "Fe advice"? Or, advise that can turn off Fi users. Another question, I know dealing with unhealthy types is never easy, but saying you're dealing with four healthy individuals that use Fi, do you find a difference in dealing with doms, aux, etc.?

 

[Lord Lavender]

Just curious [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] and [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION], but what would you guys say is "Fe advice"? Or, advise that can turn off Fi users. Another question, I know dealing with unhealthy types is never easy, but saying you're dealing with four healthy individuals that use Fi, do you find a difference in dealing with doms, aux, etc.?

An example would be when I tell a Fi user that there are social customs such as having to send Christmas cards or write a thank you letter they dont like that in general as they feel that it is fake and doenst show their true feelings for another person. Not to say that Fi users are rude or disrespectful and can be quite sweet in their own little way. My ESFP aunt for example doesn't like following Christmas social norms such as writing cards and attending parties but instead she will out of her Fi morals help the homeless out or spend time with her family. One time i told her she should vist relatives she dislikes at Christmas to keep the peace and she got angry saying that i will only spend time with people I truly love. I must confess my Fe advice can come across as being like a stereotypical busybody ExFJ.

My ISTJ father doesn't like being forced to visit relatives at Christmas and thinks that Valentines day is fake and a waste of time but on his wedding anniversary with my mother he will go to the spot where they met as this is his Fi way of showing his love for his wife. When I told him it was rude to not give Christmas and Valentines gifts he said that it wasn't him and he felt fake doing it. These are examples of Fe advice offending Fi users.

As for the position of Fi in the stack. I find in general the further down the more shocking the Fi outburst is.

IxFPs- They have so much Fi it can with Fi/Se or Fi/Ne look almost Fe esque. Generally they let their values be known and can understand where Fi and Fe meet so to speak.It is generally easy to see where they stand.

ExFPs- Similar to IxFPs but more assertive with their Fi due to higher Te. In a way easier to see where their Fi is due to getting it out there in a way.

IxTJ- They can for a while prevent a Fi outburst due to Te being stronger but when it comes out it can be more forceful and shocking. Personally i have to walk on egg shells around IxTJ types as my Ne-Fe can really overwhelm them and come across as childish,fake and immature. (Especially INTJs, Not so much with ISTJs as they do like Ne in small doses).

ExTJ- Most of the time they are not aware of their Fi but when it comes out under inferior they can have sudden emotional outbursts and reject all social norms.

 

[miss fortune]

I do like being guided by Fi users as they can help me find my true self so to speak. Many of my problems in life are due to a lack of Fi (I easily get influenced by group morals, try too hard to please others and not knowing how I am feeling). They can offer that guidance. A bit like a fish would guide a land animal on how water works . When I hang out with Fi users they tend to become my moral compass as I use their Fi in a psychic way so to speak (A bit like having someone with a torch with you so you can see in the dark but you don't actually possess it just benefit from it) I have enjoyed talking to you as we have many similarities in the way we relate to Fi.

I do find that spending too much time with some people can make my values more defined... which ends up putting me in a quandary when I realize that what I value isn't NICE that's about the point where, were I a robot, my eyes would start flashing on and off and I'd go into blue screen of death mode

Just curious [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] and [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION], but what would you guys say is "Fe advice"? Or, advise that can turn off Fi users. Another question, I know dealing with unhealthy types is never easy, but saying you're dealing with four healthy individuals that use Fi, do you find a difference in dealing with doms, aux, etc.?

I usually just get a feel of people as opposed to reflecting on more detailed typological makeups... some people feel one way and others feel another and such

my Fe advice that goes over very poorly tends to be something along the lines of:

"you know... if you'd date a guy in your own age range this type of thing wouldn't happen"

or

"you're too smart to be working that job... I'll help you find another one and apply if you'd like so that you can get paid closer to what you're worth"

whenever I make the mistake of opening my mouth and saying something that, to me, seems quite nice and helpful it goes over very badly indeed... offering useful suggestions is apparently a very bad thing

 

[Bush]

An example would be when I tell a Fi user that there are social customs such as having to send Christmas cards or write a thank you letter they dont like that in general as they feel that it is fake and doenst show their true feelings for another person. Not to say that Fi users are rude or disrespectful and can be quite sweet in their own little way. My ESFP aunt for example doesn't like following Christmas social norms such as writing cards and attending parties but instead she will out of her Fi morals help the homeless out or spend time with her family. One time i told her she should vist relatives she dislikes at Christmas to keep the peace and she got angry saying that i will only spend time with people I truly love. I must confess my Fe advice can come across as being like a stereotypical busybody ExFJ.

My ISTJ father doesn't like being forced to visit relatives at Christmas and thinks that Valentines day is fake and a waste of time but on his wedding anniversary with my mother he will go to the spot where they met as this is his Fi way of showing his love for his wife. When I told him it was rude to not give Christmas and Valentines gifts he said that it wasn't him and he felt fake doing it. These are examples of Fe advice offending Fi users.

My intent here is to provide another perspective, I suppose, and also to make myself think. I feel like I'm trying to find a home, niche, etc. I'm kind of reaching into the visceral, here, too. My real reaction isn't so.. volatile? Exaggerated?

Anyhow. That sort of holiday advice would make me want to stab myself in the fucking head. I absolutely do not want to follow up with people I don't care about, or follow up with people I do care about in ways that I don't care to. From my perspective, it's saccharine.

I do care about people, but I try to tailor it to the individual or to the connection between that individual and me. Kind of like going to the spot where we met, yeah.

This is not to say that I disagree with you. It's to say that you made me think about the whole shebang.

(That.. that all kind of absolutely reeks of Fi, doesn't it...?)

 

[Lord Lavender]

My intent here is to provide another perspective, I suppose, and also to make myself think. I feel like I'm trying to find a home, niche, etc. I'm kind of reaching into the visceral, here, too. My real reaction isn't so.. volatile? Exaggerated?

Anyhow. That sort of holiday advice would make me want to stab myself in the fucking head. I absolutely do not want to follow up with people I don't care about, or follow up with people I do care about in ways that I don't care to. From my perspective, it's saccharine.

I do care about people, but I try to tailor it to the individual or to the connection between that individual and me. Kind of like going to the spot where we met, yeah.

This is not to say that I disagree with you. It's to say that you made me think about the whole shebang.

(That.. that all kind of absolutely reeks of Fi, doesn't it...?)

Not necessary Fi. I myself dont want to spend time with people i dislike but i will do it to keep the peace and not cause a fuss basically. Although typology is more than just MBTI. I would also guess ennergram type e.t.c would also affect that sort of thing as well. I do have a 2 in my tritype so that is probably why I have such strong Fe traits even though it is my tert. I do find many aspects of Christmas and valentines day fake and over sweet myself but in the end I do celebrate these as it is expected of me to fit in (Could be Fe, E type 2 or so instinct). Thats why typology is so interesting as there are so many variables.

 

[Peter Pan]

Because the whole point is to obfuscate it and profit off of your confusion .People wouldn't be as interested in MBTI if it weren't complicated.

! This sounds like the work of Captain Hook!

En garde you pirate!

 

[Peter Pan]

Because it boils down to stereotypes real fast because of how much reduction is done. You could always just say "introverted feeling" instead of Fi.

Yeah but wouldn't that be like saying words are stereotypes and every sentence you say you have to repeat twice as long and then twice as long as that and then even twice moreso cuz the sentence had too many stereotypes to start with so you gotta keep going for forever into infinity

 

[Kierva]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

I had to sleep on this for a while, as I understand all the functions relatively well. Because of this, it's not a matter of what took me the longest to understand, but a matter of what frustrates me the most in practice.

Ti: I really resent it when people make things complicated. I want to make life easier to deal with, and as such, my mantra for life is "Keep it simple, stupid." The Ti(Ne) users I come across have this habit of asking a lot of irrelevant questions, without any action on their part. Case in point: I got an understudy at work who's supposed to learn what I do and work with, and he'd ask why doesn't it work this way or that way. I would tell him that it simply doesn't work that way, that the system engineers were too lazy to make it an intuitive system or that you would get an error when you try. But he'd just keep pressing me for answers. It's like... umm, I don't know, why don't you try it for yourself?

I don't care about the 'why' of what I'm working with. To me, it's a tedious and detail oriented job, and I want to make it as quick and as painless as possible. I'm teaching you how to finish it quickly and accurately, because you're going to be doing this EVERY MONTH, and each list takes about 3 days to complete.

Fe: Similarly, I resent it when people make me try to feel what they want me to feel. Especially if it's something somber. For example, when my grandmother was on her deathbed, my mother made me repeat after her, and I refused, because I felt that it was inauthentic, and the worst part was that I couldn't come up with something better because I didn't feel anything for my grandmother. To put it bluntly, why would I utter words of false affection for someone that I don't even have feelings for in the first place?

Ne: This one just annoys me to no end. In small doses it's fine as I find it entertaining, but it gets old. Fast. Especially the IEEs/ENFPs I've met. I hate that they almost always give you an oblique answer, and when you try to get them to explain something, they would totally avoid it or give you some short answer like "I don't know". When that happens I feel like stabbing them on a cross like Jesus and then mercilessly interrogating them.

And omg don't even get me started on their indecision! The ones I've met cannot ever make up their minds on something because they want to consider all the possibilities in their heads, and spend lots of time on that fruitless search, down to simple things like eating out. And I really can't stand their irresponsibility in decision making, because they just push the decision to someone else and retort with an "anything goes", and then later on they complain about how it's not what they had in mind.

Fuck you??? There was a time to make decisions earlier but you chose to avoid it and now you're whining???

Si: This doesn't annoy me as much as Ne does, but it's really irritating when you try to make changes for the better -- like to make things more efficient or easier, and they would stubbornly hold onto their perceptions of seeing and doing things. Like I said, I want to keep things simple for stupid, and this roadblock just gets in my way and is a very good way to make me angry. For example, at work we have different templates for different lists. I said that I want to change the layout of the lists so that every list has the same columns (because they all have same columns, just in different order), but my boss shot it down immediately because it messes with her pattern of doing things.

Um, lady, I'm making your job easier to deal with in the future so you don't have to juggle so many different perceptions of the same thing. Can you not be so stubborn??

That concludes my rant about the functions I dislike the most. Let me know your perspectives.

 

[Coriolis]

An example would be when I tell a Fi user that there are social customs such as having to send Christmas cards or write a thank you letter they dont like that in general as they feel that it is fake and doenst show their true feelings for another person. Not to say that Fi users are rude or disrespectful and can be quite sweet in their own little way. My ESFP aunt for example doesn't like following Christmas social norms such as writing cards and attending parties but instead she will out of her Fi morals help the homeless out or spend time with her family. One time i told her she should vist relatives she dislikes at Christmas to keep the peace and she got angry saying that i will only spend time with people I truly love. I must confess my Fe advice can come across as being like a stereotypical busybody ExFJ.

I wouldn't be angry or offended at advice like this, but I wouldn't follow it either. I might explain to the person why it doesn't make sense to me, but would only get upset if they kept pressuring me about it. I am much more likely to do something like your aunt does, and help people in need. One year, my opera singer sister-in-law and I performed Christmas music at a local nursing home on Christmas morning, before joining our family for dinner. Now if someone made a case to me as to what a big impact Christmas cards would make on certain people, I might make the effort to send them. In fact, not long after we got married, my INTP and I decided it was more bother than it was worth to send Christmas cards to everyone in the family. I send them only to a small subset of people I really care about and rarely see - and actually have something to say to. It's all about cost vs. benefit, but the benefit has to be real, not simply that I checked some socially acceptable box.

I do like being guided by Fi users as they can help me find my true self so to speak. Many of my problems in life are due to a lack of Fi (I easily get influenced by group morals, try too hard to please others and not knowing how I am feeling). They can offer that guidance. A bit like a fish would guide a land animal on how water works . When I hang out with Fi users they tend to become my moral compass as I use their Fi in a psychic way so to speak (A bit like having someone with a torch with you so you can see in the dark but you don't actually possess it just benefit from it)

I see Fi a bit like an internal moral compass. When surrounded by contradictory external notions of right and wrong, or even in the absence of external standards, how do I tell what is right? In this vein, how do you decide which Fi user you will let yourself be guided by?

 

[Lord Lavender]

I wouldn't be angry or offended at advice like this, but I wouldn't follow it either. I might explain to the person why it doesn't make sense to me, but would only get upset if they kept pressuring me about it. I am much more likely to do something like your aunt does, and help people in need. One year, my opera singer sister-in-law and I performed Christmas music at a local nursing home on Christmas morning, before joining our family for dinner. Now if someone made a case to me as to what a big impact Christmas cards would make on certain people, I might make the effort to send them. In fact, not long after we got married, my INTP and I decided it was more bother than it was worth to send Christmas cards to everyone in the family. I send them only to a small subset of people I really care about and rarely see - and actually have something to say to. It's all about cost vs. benefit, but the benefit has to be real, not simply that I checked some socially acceptable box.


I see Fi a bit like an internal moral compass. When surrounded by contradictory external notions of right and wrong, or even in the absence of external standards, how do I tell what is right? In this vein, how do you decide which Fi user you will let yourself be guided by?

It makes sense to only send Christmas cards to people that you care about and yet see irregularly as people you see often will recive other ways of Christmas well wishing. As for the Fi question in the second quote. When i am unsure of my own morals and feelings i tend to choose a Fi user that i know well and trust as i will have faith in their judgement to help me make the right choice.

 

[great_bay]

1.Introverted feeling
2.Extroverted sensing
3. Introverted intuition

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think that I understand all of them pretty well.
However if I have to vote I would say Fe. Fe reasoning is likely to strike me as weird or pointless.


On tests it is always my weakest function.

 

[Norrsken]

I understand all of them now, though back then, the hardest one to grasp and understand the most was Si. It was supremely difficult for me to even put it into words if someone were to ask what Si is and what it's meant to do.

 

[EJCC]

I've never really understood Se, outside of "in the moment", "in the zone", no subjective filter between sensory data and brain. Beyond that, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Coriolis]

It makes sense to only send Christmas cards to people that you care about and yet see irregularly as people you see often will recive other ways of Christmas well wishing. As for the Fi question in the second quote. When i am unsure of my own morals and feelings i tend to choose a Fi user that i know well and trust as i will have faith in their judgement to help me make the right choice.

But what leads you to trust a particular Fi user on this - on what is that faith in their judgment based?

 

[Bush]

I think Si is the one I understand the least, in terms of application. It's a solid anchor, for sure; but to me it seems like a ball-and-chain.

Not necessary Fi. I myself dont want to spend time with people i dislike but i will do it to keep the peace and not cause a fuss basically. Although typology is more than just MBTI. I would also guess ennergram type e.t.c would also affect that sort of thing as well. I do have a 2 in my tritype so that is probably why I have such strong Fe traits even though it is my tert. I do find many aspects of Christmas and valentines day fake and over sweet myself but in the end I do celebrate these as it is expected of me to fit in (Could be Fe, E type 2 or so instinct). Thats why typology is so interesting as there are so many variables.

True dat. My Enneatype would presumably have me caring about those sorts of things. And indeed it actually did for quite some time. As a kid, I took to memorizing non-immediate family members' birthdays. I was surprised to learn that that can be a coping mechanism for someone who wants to be heard, to be recognized, praised by family. And then I started figuring out that that wasn't what I needed. And so on and so forth

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

But what leads you to trust a particular Fi user on this - on what is that faith in their judgment based?

I know this was toward Brain and he may have a different take but I've actually thought of this question myself and when Brain was talking about light in the dark, hit me as accurate.

Fi users tend to simplify a lot of Fe "overload" and I'm speaking as Ti/Fe.

For instance, when stressed, having a convo with my INFP friend seems to separate what is expected, the pressures of everything else - or - focuses what is the end result of what (I desire) from the situation.

Now, I don't have to weigh that against an internal consistency of right/wrong, so, Fi tells me it's okay to be selfish. Which isn't probably what they want to stress! But it's what happens.

That is needed for Ti/Fe to hear because if we are stressed, it's usually because we need to be a bit more "selfish" and tap into the bottom line for us emotionally.

 

[NAPSTABLOOK22]

I voted Ni on the poll, yet I thought about it a bit more and I think that I understand Fe less. While I was reading and learning about functions, Ni was hardest for me to grasp in terms of what it means, but when it comes to applying cognitive functions in real life, my Fe is just really bad.

 

[Evo]

Seems to be Fe atm, but this is ever changing as my perspective evolves.

 

[Dreamer]

It may appear that many people struggle getting in touch with their feefees