mofongo
New member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2016
- Messages
- 27
- MBTI Type
- ISTP
- Enneagram
- 9w8
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
I don’t know if you’re getting the impression that I’m parroting what other people are saying without thinking, but that’s not what I’m doing. I think enneagram is deeper than MBTI because of its emphasis fears and defense mechanisms, it covers much more personal territory which I find to be extremely helpful in self development.My tip is to be careful what people say is deep and important, because what appears to be deep and important might not be deep and important at all. And my second tip is to be careful about what people say is "the real essence".
Anxiety is central to the head triad so yes it is a core emotion in 5s as well as 6s and 7s, just as anger is central to the gut triad and shame to the heart triad.“Also, anxiety as a core emotion? I dont remember that being related to neither 9 or 5 (6, perhaps?).â€
This is kind of a non-argument. There’s no way to know if the real essence of enneagram is the core fear, so I should just assume it’s the behavior? That doesn’t make sense, especially considering the mechanisms and behaviors that are characteristic of each enneagram type are a function of their core fear. (The motivations go hand in hand with the core fear too.) People can act in the same way for different reasons, so a system that just describes a superficial pattern of behavior and leaves it at that has a pretty limited use. Whether an idea is old or not shouldn’t be the determining factor in deciding if it’s correct either, what really matters is if it’s logically consistent and accurately reflects reality, which the core fears in enneagram certainly seem to do. Old ideas can be refined and perfected, assuming that ideas are complete and untouchable from the moment of conception is a pretty regressive mindset.The Enneagram theory is hundreds of years old, i think I already mentioned on this thread but I am not sure, but not all parts that you had read comes from the original enneagram and there is no way we can know what belongs or not to the original Enneagram (tri-type doesnt). So, basically, there isnt a clear "real essence" of Enneagram, it doesnt matter how convincing someone make sound that there is so. So I wouldnt recommend to ignore the 9 profile description because as if it isnt a "real essence" of Enneagram, at least the type description part of the enneagram should be from the original enneagram. The fears are less stable overtime than the motivations or the profiles, at least in my own opinion, and they are prone to being dictated by what happened to you (your past traumas, for example) than what you really are. So, you being a core 5 and 9 as the second fix makes way more sense to you, because being way too different from the core description is definitely a problem and I think that you are a little bit too off from the core 5 description. Also, anxiety as a core emotion? I dont remember that being related to neither 9 or 5 (6, perhaps?).
I also went in on how avoidant I have been in the past and how I’ve had problems with repression, stagnation, and excessive accommodation, which is quite in line with common 9 problems, so I’m not too sure of where you’re seeing the discrepancies.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Cognitive functions are modes of processing and judging the world, so it makes sense that people could hone them since they’re somewhat akin to a skill in that way, and can be developed as such with maturity and life experience. Enneagram on the other hand is a wound that forms in childhood. It’s a product of the ego. You go up or down on a health scale, your core fears and motivations don't just exist one day and then change the next, just like how you can’t forcibly change your cognitive functions. If you ignore the fear and only go by superficial behaviors you have a terribly vague and unstable system where people would change types depending on their moods. A personality system where you can just pick “whichever sounds cooler†has no real purpose.Anyway, as I had said in another thread somewhere some weeks ago, if you are very similar on both then you can somewhat see both as your core and just pick the one you like the most instead (the one that sounds cooler to you). As Jung said, "In the foregoing descriptions I have no desire to give my readers the impression that such pure types occur at all frequently in actual practice", although he was saying that to the core cognitive functions type (Ti-dom, Se-dom, etc...) I think that applies well in various typology systems (as you are definitely not a pure ISTP and perhaps ISTP 9 can communicate that better).
I think instead of comparing cognitive functions vs enneagram behaviors it would be more accurate to compare cognitive function produced behavior and enneagram behavior. You can have a spontaneous ENTP and ESTP who both act spontaneous in the same way but for different reasons, like you would have an 8 and a counterphobic 6 lash out in similar ways but for completely different reasons.