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If Christians Were Being Lied To, Would We/They Know It?

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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To me good is when your actions on the whole benefit people and make them happier or better off which I suppose then God could be seen as good under a certain light if his actions led to a better fate for the humans involved as some theorize that if he didn't do the ark purge for instance then the world would be far worse off due to the volume of evil. However I can make an argument that God is purposely holding back as an excuse to carry out his more morallily dubious acts as in theory he could just say mind wipe the evil people which while not that good is better than drowning them all.

Applying human morality to God he is a power hungry,vindictive and harsh dictator who has many similarities to dictatorial leaders like Stalin (Both God and Stalin are willing to punish or kill people that threaten them or disagree with them in some way)>
My question was rhetorical. The point is that there isn't a single, objective, universally accepted definition of good/evil, the way there are accepted physical constants and laws. Our definitions are subjective, informed by our upbringing, experiences, and personal values, all of which include religious influences, whether we are believers or not. The definition you present seems agreeable enough, but begs the question of what is a benefit, and even whether happiness is a worthy goal (the early Puritans didn't seem to think so).

Referencing God just opens another can of worms: which God? Sure, the God of the Bible often acts as you describe, but what about the many other human images of deity? Even Jesus does better.

However on a tangent what do you make of the theory that the real god was the apple in the garden of Eden and "God" in the Bible is just Satan posing as him and using the image of a Satan as a distraction and scapegoat. It would explain so many things.
I have not heard that version of the story. What is its origin, and what do you think it explains? IME, they are all just stories, each with its own morals and attempts to explain something about the human condition. There is something to be learned from all of them, but not by taking them as historical fact, or normative guidance.
 

Habba

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It is impossible for God to do evil.

Joshua 23:15
But just as all the good things the LORD your God has promised you have come to you, so he will bring on you all the evil things he has threatened, until the LORD your God has destroyed you from this good land he has given you.

Is it not evil to threaten with evil things? Is it not evil to make threats come true? :huh:
 

wool

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My question was rhetorical. The point is that there isn't a single, objective, universally accepted definition of good/evil, the way there are accepted physical constants and laws. Our definitions are subjective, informed by our upbringing, experiences, and personal values, all of which include religious influences, whether we are believers or not. The definition you present seems agreeable enough, but begs the question of what is a benefit, and even whether happiness is a worthy goal (the early Puritans didn't seem to think so). Referencing God just opens another can of worms: which God? Sure, the God of the Bible often acts as you describe, but what about the many other human images of deity? Even Jesus does better. I have not heard that version of the story. What is its origin, and what do you think it explains? IME, they are all just stories, each with its own morals and attempts to explain something about the human condition. There is something to be learned from all of them, but not by taking them as historical fact, or normative guidance.
Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.
 

wool

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Joshua 23:15
But just as all the good things the LORD your God has promised you have come to you, so he will bring on you all the evil things he has threatened, until the LORD your God has destroyed you from this good land he has given you.

Is it not evil to threaten with evil things? Is it not evil to make threats come true? :huh:

Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done."
 

Coriolis

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Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.
Yes and no. As the saying goes: "All Gods are one God; All Goddesses are one Goddess." Each shows us some different aspect of the divine. So, it all depends on your perspective. I see the merit in both/various.
 

indra

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It is written: "Far be it from God to do wickedness, And from the Almighty to do wrong."

Job 34:10

God is indeed Omnipotent, it is just not His nature to do evil. He is wholly good and just.

So is face fucking frogs to death evil or nah

Cuz chimps fuck frogs in their faces... to death.

If nature is any estimate we are caught in the throes of an artist of a psychopath. If god is almighty there's something fishy going on in Denmark.
 

ilikeitlikethat

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It is written: "Far be it from God to do wickedness, And from the Almighty to do wrong."

Job 34:10

God is indeed Omnipotent, it is just not His nature to do evil. He is wholly good and just.

Man wrote the Holy Bible, and man is capable of writing lies because mankind is capable of being lied to.
Lies to control a populous by other men or even, lies from Satan, the father of all lies.
Who says anything written is truth based on it being written?

Being fed a book saying 'do this' 'do that' 'don't do that or feel a wrath' 'believe us when we say a virgin gave birth' 'believe us when we say there is life after death for you if you're a believer too'.. let your guard down because; 'far be it from the one who tells you this to be of wicked virtue' - while mother nature is screaming in the face of lies to fool you and lies to control you.
 

wool

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So is face fucking frogs to death evil or nah

Cuz chimps fuck frogs in their faces... to death.

If nature is any estimate we are caught in the throes of an artist of a psychopath. If god is almighty there's something fishy going on in Denmark.

Is that all you see when you look at nature? That reveals more about your own character, than God's, Indra.
 

indra

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Is that all you see when you look at nature? That reveals more about your own character than God's, Indra.

Not just me, wool.

"What a book a devil's chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low and horridly cruel works of nature!"

It takes great ignorance to hold Christian faith in mind while surveying what we're born into.
 

wool

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Not just me, wool.

"What a book a devil's chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low and horridly cruel works of nature!"

It takes great ignorance to hold Christian faith in mind while surveying what we're born into.

We are born into a far fallen world, and there remains much beauty to be found.

The thorns are hidden by roses.
 

indra

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We are born into a far fallen world, and there remains much beauty to be found.

The thorns are hidden by roses.

I'm only showing that there is a gaping flaw that must be acknowledged if we are to say god is both omnipotent and most loving. It isn't the case. It just isn't true. You have to make a great deal of exception in the mind to make this so.

There is much beauty to the world, I even find its most undesirable aspects wondrous. But the way I have grown to see the world is a far cry from that of faith. I am annoyed that we as a species come onto the scene with the deepest qualities of nature spelt out for us by primitively authoritarian auspices.
 

wool

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I'm only showing that there is a gaping flaw that must be acknowledged if we are to say god is both omnipotent and most loving. It isn't the case. It just isn't true. You have to make a great deal of exception in the mind to make this so.

There is much beauty to the world, I even find its most undesirable aspects wondrous. But the way I have grown to see the world is a far cry from that of faith. I am annoyed that we as a species come onto the scene with the deepest qualities of nature spelt out for us by primitively authoritarian auspices.

The curse of sin affected the earth too.

It is your spiritual darkness which blinds you to God's design. God's love is written everywhere in nature.
 

indra

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The curse of sin affected the earth too.

It is your spiritual darkness which blinds you to God's design. God's love is written everywhere in nature.

What is the origin of sin?
 

wool

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What is the origin of sin?

Ezekiel 28:14-16
14"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15"You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16"By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

Sin was first found in Lucifer, who was the brightest angel in Heaven, and who was renamed Satan after rebelling against God.
 

indra

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Ezekiel 28:14-16
14"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15"You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16"By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

Sin was first found in Lucifer, who was the brightest angel in Heaven, and who was renamed Satan after rebelling against God.

And you sincerely doubt this is just the work of some thoughtful ancient civilizations on the reflections of nature but the legitimate scripture of a divine being
 

wool

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And you sincerely doubt this is just the work of some thoughtful ancient civilizations on the reflections of nature but the legitimate scripture of a divine being

How long will you lock yourself in darkness?
 
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