Salome said:
Yes. It's kind of ironic that the sympathy expressed by F types frequently has the opposite effect from the one intended (at least to Ts). Their assumption of understanding your state of mind is frequently an imposition and a trial. Certainly not a comfort. Only someone who truly understands and is genuinely close to you can begin to sympathise. To assume you can is just presumptuousness. Understanding this makes me less inclined to express sympathy in the ways made banal by tradition - I don't presume to understand what other people are suffering, even if it's something I have firsthand experience of.
Interesting how we all come to it so differently. Fe/Fi, F/T. One intention and a different reception. At least personally, I don't see trying to understand another's suffering as presumptuous - it's trying to help them feel less isolated, letting them know that they have a line of support, etc. Or at the very least, trying to make room for their experience in one's own mental construct. I think Fs tend to do that, tend to integrate people's values into the way their minds work as a way of respecting and harmonizing with others. But I could see how for a T that could be less positive and more intrusive and assuming.
This is extremely well-written, and probably the best answer to my question I could expect. I still cannot fathom it, though. It makes sense in theory, but seems always to fall flat in practice. When people express sympathy to me (at least I think that is what they are trying to do), I do not feel understood or my values acknowledged. I do not want my pain and misfortune to be the focus of our interaction. I either find the expression completely empty, or feel the person is trying to project or impose their values and their interpretation of the situation onto me, which at that point just adds insult to injury. I do not want to connect with such a person, or have them share my awareness in any way. I just want them to leave me alone to address my issues rather than bemoan them. If someone feels for me in a time of difficulty, and wishes to sacrifice cognitive space on my behalf (a great expression) I prefer they devote it to something more positive. (Needless to say, it is very hard for me to express sympathy to others, however much I understand their need and want to help.)
Well, thank you, first off, and sorry it's taken me ages to respond. Interestingly, I actually agree completely with the bolded. Typically I feel very uncomfortable in that situation and try to move on ASAP - except in rare cases where I am still trying to sort through something that left me emotionally upset and I could use another person's thoughts to help me piece it all together and move on. I used to recoil from it when I was younger, and to some extent I still hate someone being very effusive about feeling sorry for me. My ESFJ 2 mom tends to be like that and I love her endlessly but I tend to steel in response to it. If I'm going to sort through my pain with someone, it needs to come on slowly and I need to be in control, not them. So I do understand what you mean.
I think that - and this might be somewhat of a Ne thing - when someone expresses sympathy, I generally see it as a kind gesture plus an opportunity to cherry pick knowledge. I don't really know that I ever assume that it's actually
useful beyond making me feel nice. Mostly I just like that others are demonstrating their compassion and awareness of me, which makes me feel supported and trusting. And of course for Fs, feelings are important. Feeling supported and trusting makes me more relaxed and empowered, and that better allows me to handle my problems, even though they still suck. I guess it's sort of a compartmentalization. What I get out of others' sympathy isn't tangible, but I don't look to them for that. I just like the feeling. But if the feeling doesn't do much for you... what you're saying makes sense.
Which, between your and Salome's posts, brings me to the question, how best to offer something positive and useful to a T in distress? Just give them space unless you have something tangibly useful to contribute?
Every Fi valuing E6 thinks I'm unstable and dangerous despite the fact that I've never gone to prison or charged with any offenses other than 4 minor traffic violations. These are shallow words from shallow people.
Tsk, I'm a Fi-valuing e6 and I don't think you're dangerous or unstable, though you certainly seem volatile. More importantly I do think it's notable if a group of highly reactive people tells you that you seemed reactive. It's a useful observation. Don't forget that your very strong forward push in your communication may tend to elicit a strong push backwards, which is probably why a lot of responses have sounded judgmental.