Avoiding confrontation

[Bush]

I used to be conflict avoidant all over the place. I just didn't like hostility and wasn't really aware of the broader implications of, say, (a) hiding the truth and thereby deceiving, in a way or (b) hindering myself in the long run.

But nowadays when I'm conflict-avoidant, it's mostly because I'm sure that I'll run into them again later. Especially if they are in (or will or could become) a position of authority.. well, that spells bad news bears for good ol' Julius C.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

They may not be quick to speak--they may have to process information a bit longer than some, and so confrontation isn't really practical to them because they cannot just fire back with an immediate response.

I wish more people understood this. It seems like there are people who seem to feel even more antagonized when they can't elicit an immediate response. It really sucks to deal with. Just as I'm sure dealing with someone who has a slow processing time- for someone who is really reactive, and feels the need to resolve things immediately- probably also sucks.

The thing that sucks most of all is when either feels the need to make the other feel bad for having an incompatible inclination, or tries shaming them into being different- as if the other's inclination is clearly the wrong/selfish way to be. It really bothers me when people actively/aggressively pursue interaction and try to bully/coerce/shame others into accommodating their own inclination.

I believe all of these are/can be a reason. In all the conflict-avoidance people I know, they have never learned how to have a confrontation and/or learned it that it can be a healthy thing. I also think at some point in life, they were also taught that it was bad and to avoid it at all costs. Even if it creates more problems, outright lying that destroys trust or glossing over and omitting things that are pretty much the same as lying. Of course some of it can come from fear or lack of confidence but some are just incredibly selfish.

The good thing is that people can learn how to overcome it, if they are shown how and shown that a conflict isn't going to automatically run people/piss people off. I do understand being frustrated by it though. It was easily one of the biggest issue I had with my ENFJ at one time.

Yeah, (for example) if a person grows up with a histrionically reactive parent- and conflict doesn't result in mediation of different POVs, but instead systematically results in simply bullying others into complacence- then the knee-jerk avoidance is really more about the bullying than it is about conflict. There are ways to slowly re-establish trust.

***

I wonder if all conflict-avoidance might trail back to essentially associating it with the act of bullying others into some kind of complacence- and not really trusting one's self to know where that's the case (and often probably not even beginning to realize it), and so avoiding looking too closely at where it might be happening (just avoiding it instead).

 

[ceecee]

I wish more people understood this. It seems like there are people who seem to feel even more antagonized when they can't elicit an immediate response. It really sucks to deal with. Just as I'm sure dealing with someone who has a slow processing time- for someone who is really reactive, and feels the need to resolve things immediately- probably also sucks.

This is fine, more than fine even. The time to process I mean. I'm sure it's frustrating to others who are reactive but if someone told me - I need some time to process this - no problem at all. That's not avoiding.

Yeah, (for example) if a person grows up with a histrionically reactive parent- and conflict doesn't result in mediation of different POVs, but instead systematically results in simply bullying others into complacence- then the knee-jerk avoidance is really more about the bullying than it is about conflict. There are ways to slowly re-establish trust.

I agree this is likely a reason or the reason. It was for my ENFJ.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

...if someone told me - I need some time to process this - no problem at all.

It's amazing how difficult it can be to remember to actually say this to someone.

(I'm one of those people who actually need to be reminded of this, regularly. Because it seems obvious.)

 

[GIjade]

The very nature of the word confrontation is positional - it makes the assumption that you are right and another party is wrong, either from a factual or emotional perspective. I prefer discussion, and choosing this word is not simply semantics on my part. Even if I feel justified in broaching a subject or emotion that to me requires discussion, nothing is "black and white", no one is ever 100% correct in their position and the other person 100% incorrect, so starting in with a hard opinion on the matter is often polarizing, is seldom productive and often incurs a great deal of hurt feelings in the process.

Confrontation is stressful and oppositional. Discussion is healthier and team-building. So, this is ultimately why I avoid confrontation.

Ok, then what is your term for bringing something up that you know the other person wants to avoid discussing. I call that confronting someone. Confrontation. If someone doesn't confront someone else, assuming they want to discuss something, then there will never be a discussion.

 

[GIjade]

But nowadays when I'm conflict-avoidant, it's mostly because I'm sure that I'll run into them again later. Especially if they are in (or will or could become) a position of authority.. well, that spells bad news bears for good ol' Julius C.

Please explain.

 

[prplchknz]

This is fine, more than fine even. The time to process I mean. I'm sure it's frustrating to others who are reactive but if someone told me - I need some time to process this - no problem at all. That's not avoiding.

. sometimes they respect my wishes, other times they keep pushing which just makes things worse, and saying how i'm avoiding conflict, its like no if i engage now i'll do something i regret so fuck off for now. (not you, I'm not angry at you)

 

[GIjade]

Sorry if the original post was confusing or didn't thoroughly explain what was meant.

Yeah, this thread is about me, personally. I'm trying to understand something. All of your answers make sense and as I did say, I know everyone is different and that we all have our weaknesses and strengths. I don't expect someone who doesn't like confrontation to be like me, but I want to understand them. And, Buck, I want you to know that this little problem I'm having really isn't little at all. It's about my life, a huge part of my life, though I won't go into it here. And, when I say "confront" someone, I do mean I want to bring the topic into the light of day so that I'm not always in the position of wondering. It hurts, this thing I'm feeling, and it could be resolved if someone could somehow realize that keeping secrets is really harmful sometimes, even if it's a lie of omission. And lastly, I would allow for processing time, I need that myself, I'm not out to try to make someone feel bad for having an incompatible inclination, people are who they are and I don't care to change them if they are enjoying what they do even if I wouldn't be inclined to do that. The problem however, is that someone else's lifestyle infringed upon my boundaries and that IS where I have a problem with "just do as you like". Please don't hurt someone else doing what you want to do in life. I am not trying to "actively/aggressively pursue interaction and try to bully/coerce/shame others into accommodating my own inclination." I really don't care what you do, just don't involve me, especially when you (not you personally) know that it would be something I wouldn't want to be involved in. I'm perfectly willing to listen to other points of view, even if I don't agree with them, and try to understand them. I find it other people's POV's fascinating and am very willing to try to see how they might think the way they do. But that can't be done if someone doesn't want to engage in any sort of discussion, which leaves the person who has been hurt in a pretty sad situation.

Is there ever a time when any of you conflict avoiders would consider that the feelings of the person who is asking to talk about something might be important enough for you to just try to put aside your avoidance for a little while?

 

[Sil]

Are we talking about people being on the receiving or giving end of the confrontation?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Ok, then what is your term for bringing something up that you know the other person wants to avoid discussing. I call that confronting someone. Confrontation. If someone doesn't confront someone else, assuming they want to discuss something, then there will never be a discussion.

con·fron·ta·tion
noun
a hostile or argumentative meeting or situation between opposing parties.

You have two options: 1.) don't be hostile and argumentative or 2.) don't paint yourself as being in a position of opposition.

This is fine, more than fine even. The time to process I mean. I'm sure it's frustrating to others who are reactive but if someone told me - I need some time to process this - no problem at all. That's not avoiding.

It is avoiding if the processing takes years of time.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I hear you, GIjade. I spent my life avoiding conflict and with loved ones. I accommodated like crazy and became very co-dependent. It was bad.

I recently started healing from that, which has created a painful dynamic in my marriage, since my wife would rather pretend all is well and absolutely refuses to discuss very major issues, so much so that she has said she would end our 20 year marriage than talk about our relationship.

I wish I could give you advice, but every time I try to talk about these issues, no matter the approach, it results in her getting defensive and angry, no matter what.

I don't know if we will ever be able to talk, which is crazy because we used to be able to discuss anything for hours without problems. All I know is that we love each other, but at some point that may not be enough.....

 

[prplchknz]

con·fron·ta·tion


It is avoiding if the processing takes years of time.

if I say that and take years to get back to it, probably means i've forgotten. come on i've gotten in trouble for talking to people i had huge fights with in the past and don't remember that happening

there's been times where there's been huge drama on here and the other party still remembers it and i have no idea it happened and i got infracted for it, so yeah the possibility of it taking years might just be they forgot.

its like names i can't remember people's names yet i'm told it means i don't care about the person, i do because i'll remember their favorite food and some of their interests and stuff but i can not remember their name, and i figure i do this subconsciously so i can have room to remember their interests and the name is largely useless.

 

[Bush]

Please explain.

People may take confrontation -- at least the direct kind -- personally. It's an affront to their ideas, and so it's an affront to them as a person Maybe it's jadedness talking, but it's difficult for me to give people the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Someone taking a confrontation personally isn't much of an issue on its face. We can't control their interpretations, and it's not exactly our responsibility to do so anyway. But when a confrontation is taken personally, other things could happen. Discussion gets shut down. You future thoughts and ideas get dismissed. The environment becomes tense enough that things don't get done. Supervisors and other higher-ups may abuse their positions over you.

Some people respect those who can confront them directly -- these are usually people who directly and bluntly confront others themselves. But sometimes, these blunt people can dish it but can't take it -- they don't want to be challenged. When I'm first dealing with someone who's blunt, I try to gauge which of these they are.


That's all quite a bit of work. To save myself from a total headache, I try to be diplomatic. That's pretty natural and even usually automatic for me. But if for some reason I can't be -- that I can't get my point across without being blunt -- then I have to calculate risk/reward on direct confrontation. How important is it to discuss (and possibly correct) some particular person on some particular thing they've said or done? Is it, or is it not, my responsibility to try in the first place? What are the overall consequences of confronting? What are the overall consequences of not confronting?

 

[PeaceBaby]

there's been times where there's been huge drama on here and the other party still remembers it and i have no idea it happened and i got infracted for it, so yeah the possibility of it taking years might just be they forgot.

I hear you.

My point being, if you say you need time to process, and never get back to the person, and that's your habit, then avoidance of discussion because you need time to "process" is an issue too. Ultimate bullshit reason to never talk out anything.

 

[prplchknz]

I hear you.

My point being, if you say you need time to process, and never get back to the person, and that's your habit, then avoidance of discussion because you need time to "process" is an issue too. Ultimate bullshit reason to never talk out anything.

maybe

 

[Yama]

Is there ever a time when any of you conflict avoiders would consider that the feelings of the person who is asking to talk about something might be important enough for you to just try to put aside your avoidance for a little while?

Yes, if I care about the person very much. With strangers or acquaintances, I will avoid confrontation with them at all costs because it is awkward and because I simply don't care much about them. But if there's some sort of problem between me and a friend, and my friends are very important to me, but I take a deep breath and let it happen, because in that case it's better to talk it out with them and let us each explain ourselves and get it over with and come to some sort of conclusion/compromise so that everything will go back to normal.

 

[PeaceBaby]

maybe

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't mind verbal confrontation at all. I am even completely ok with being "the attacker".

What most people see as confrontation I see as problem solving or dragging facts out to the open, so that something can be done about the whole situation.
However even my own parents say that spending time with me can be stressful at times.


On the other hand drama based confrontations are usually pretty annoying since they serve no real purpose and the source of problem will probably remain intact.


My 2 cents.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Sorry if the original post was confusing or didn't thoroughly explain what was meant.

Yeah, this thread is about me, personally. I'm trying to understand something. All of your answers make sense and as I did say, I know everyone is different and that we all have our weaknesses and strengths. I don't expect someone who doesn't like confrontation to be like me, but I want to understand them. And, Buck, I want you to know that this little problem I'm having really isn't little at all. It's about my life, a huge part of my life, though I won't go into it here. And, when I say "confront" someone, I do mean I want to bring the topic into the light of day so that I'm not always in the position of wondering. It hurts, this thing I'm feeling, and it could be resolved if someone could somehow realize that keeping secrets is really harmful sometimes, even if it's a lie of omission. And lastly, I would allow for processing time, I need that myself, I'm not out to try to make someone feel bad for having an incompatible inclination, people are who they are and I don't care to change them if they are enjoying what they do even if I wouldn't be inclined to do that. The problem however, is that someone else's lifestyle infringed upon my boundaries and that IS where I have a problem with "just do as you like". Please don't hurt someone else doing what you want to do in life. I am not trying to "actively/aggressively pursue interaction and try to bully/coerce/shame others into accommodating my own inclination." I really don't care what you do, just don't involve me, especially when you (not you personally) know that it would be something I wouldn't want to be involved in. I'm perfectly willing to listen to other points of view, even if I don't agree with them, and try to understand them. I find it other people's POV's fascinating and am very willing to try to see how they might think the way they do. But that can't be done if someone doesn't want to engage in any sort of discussion, which leaves the person who has been hurt in a pretty sad situation.

Is there ever a time when any of you conflict avoiders would consider that the feelings of the person who is asking to talk about something might be important enough for you to just try to put aside your avoidance for a little while?

(Only seeing this now- use the mention function, champ!)

I think one of the most unfortunate communication misfires that happens is that people don't realize there's something about the way they present their issue that makes it too difficult for others to take in. For example- if there's something emphatic about the tone the dispatcher is using, it might trigger fear of bullying and the recipient might compulsively feel the need to shut the conversation down before it even begins. Even when people can present their issue with a calm veneer- if it's riddled with shapeshify logic, the same thing happens, it gets shut down before communication happens. It's not a completely irrational fear- people can and do regularly used a forceful tone or manipulative shapeshifty logic to bully/control/coerce others. And unfortunately- even where it isn't the intention to bully- when people don't feel heard, they generally instinctively actually crank up the volume on their forcefulness or the shapeshiftiness of their logic, instead of slowing down to take a look at understanding why they're not being heard.

Personally, to be clear- regarding the bolded- I'm surrounded by e9s in my family, and I feel like they constantly try to gaslight me into thinking there's no problem where there is a problem. I'm absolutely not endorsing that behavior- I find it maddening.

The goal (with the individual in question) is to build trust, as ceecee said. Continuing to present an issue in a tone that triggers someone's avoidance is like giving an arachnophobe a present wrapped in spider-decorated gift wrap (with spider ribbon, a spider card, etc...)- as much as it might hurt that they don't open your gift, they're so distracted by the urge to flee from the wrapping that they can't stop to consider what might be inside. And (even where there truly may not be any urge bully/coerce) repeatedly attempting to present the issue this way is going to further erode the trust.

Might be useful (from Seven Steps To Speak Your Uncomfortable Truth):

Here are Seven Guidelines for Speaking Your Uncomfortable Truth:

• Choose your moment: timing is everything. Choose a quiet, open moment to maximize being heard.
• Imagine being the other person: put yourself in her shoes. If you were to receive this message, how would you want to hear it?
• Keep your own emotions in check: practice helps with this. Practice relaying the message, either in your own head, in the mirror, or to a friend, until you’re able to say it in a compassionate and caring tone. If you are angry or accusing when you relay your message, the other person will feel immediately defensive. And defensive people lose their hearing. They do not take things in.
• Avoid extreme words. The words “always” and “never” raise defenses. Avoid accusations. Use “I feel,” not “you always,” for example.
• Listen: after you speak your truth, be quiet and listen to the other person. Avoid arguing, because that will bury your message in anger.
• Recognize that most difficult things require more than one conversation: your goal in this first talk is to plant the seed. Don’t expect a plant to spring immediately from the earth. Give it some time to take root, and then have another talk.
• Accept that the other person may be hurt: it is okay. Often, the most loving thing we can do is hurt someone. Because honesty shows respect and care, even when it hurts.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Confrontation doesn't bother me in the least. I think its totally healthy and necessary when the situation demands it. It's a unique opportunity to grow. I try not to intentionally offend people but I have no problem doing so if that is the cost for revealing what's true.