[ISTJ] Why why why are ISTJ sooooo evasive?

[FemMecha]

I think you're nit picking. I think, being an INFx, you know exactly what they were talking about, but are choosing to take issue with it because of how it might appear to Sensors instead of based on any actual misunderstanding.

Moving on, I agree that xSTJs don't have internal depth that the OP is looking for. By definition, xSTJs don't have the functions that send them into autopsy over every emotion they feel about everything from the color of the neighbor's mailbox to the heat index of the BBQ they went to last Thursday.

xSTJs are very functional and practical. When they feel emotions, they very often shelve them in favor of going on with their day, accomplishing what it is that's on their agenda. In older posts I've seen, ISTJs list on average one or two moments that were truly emotionally overwhelming, often commenting that they don't see a reason to stop what they're doing just because they have a sudden emotion.

So of course when you probe them for their deep analysis of their emotional situation, it isn't there.

"How are you?"
"Fine."
"You don't seem fine. Are you sad?"
"Yeah."
"Then you're not fine."
"I'm not sick, so nothing to complain about."
"Why are you sad?"
"Because... chemicals in the brain?"

Ha. Your comprehension of my inner thinking is surprisingly shallow.
I don't agree that your conversation is representative of all ISTJs. That is a cardboard cutout of any human being. I'm surprised that's all you have, being an INF and all. I'm too tired for a paperdoll fight right now, but your post is exactly the problem with MBTI. It is an amazingly shallow comprehension of the human psyche.

Edit: Actually, if someone tells you they are sad "because of chemicals in the brain?", then chances are they are blowing you off. That could just as easily mean, "I am a private person, you are being intrusive, I don't trust you with my inner world, so I'm going to say the exact thing to annoy you most."

 

[Forever_Jung]

^I agree that ISTJ's have more emotional depth than you might see in the surface. They're like INTJ's in that respect. In my experience they're just very private people. They are Fi-users after all. Here are some mini-portraits of ISTJ's in my life:

I have an ISTJ buddy, who never talks about his feelings, and is extremely blunt and tough-minded. He won't say he cares about people in his life, but he will indirectly reveal his love, by his attachment to physical things associated with the person. When his parents died, his sister bought out his share of their childhood home, and renovated the house. And he really would never talk about missing his parents that much, but he would flip his lid, when his sister rearranged objects in the house, got rid of things (everything is an heirloom to my ISTJ friend), made the house smell different, etc. He always tells me he dreads visiting the house, because being in there just feels wrong now. He also has a hard time listening to music associated with his parents. FTR, he is definitely aware as to why he feels this way, he doesn't think it's because of "brain chemicals."

I have another good ISTJ friend, and she very rarely talks about her feelings and being vulnerable, but once in a while I see behind the curtain. She is actually pretty sensitive and seems to like experiencing emotions in private and slowly over time. Like the fellow above, her emotions are often a very physical thing, so she has difficulty articulating/describing them in more abstract terms. But she can recall the physiological manifestations of her emotions over a decade later, and she has told me she doesn't like to rehash upsetting moments, because the physical "symptoms" resurface when she recounts the events. I remember one time she wrote a little story/essay for a class about the death of her father, and her odd relationship with him, and everyone (especially the teacher) was bowled over, since she sort of has a reputation for being cold (her nickname in high school was The Lindsay-bot 9000).

Finally, my brother is an ISTJ, and he is pretty finely tuned/sensitive as well, but you never see vulnerability on the surface. He just gets extremely defensive and blunt, then goes up into his room for an indefinite amount of time to stew. He always says he doesn't care, feelings are stupid and he doesn't have them, etc, etc, but I don't buy that after he gets his heart broken, he's up there making excel spreadsheets (his childhood hobby).

 

[FemMecha]

^Good post [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]

I realize each person is unique and there are examples of shallow people of all types, but ISTJs can be intensely private. One of my favorite ISTJ TV characters is Scully from X-Files.

I had an elderly aunt who was a rather extreme example of an ISTJ. She majored in literature when in college, but spent her life doing book keeping and medical assisting for a country doctor. She lived in the top floor of an old Victorian house made into a medical clinic. Her apartment was cluttered intentionally to minimize visitors. She lived uber-frugally, wearing the same, simple cut dresses for decades. She saved every penny and would give help to my family and others. She was intensely devoted to the country doctor and trusted his every word. She was stern and could reprimand ruthlessly on the phone when she became overwhelmed. She couldn't apologize overtly, but would find subtle ways. She tended to suppress emotions and had a lot of guilt, but did a great deal of good in the world. When I visited her when I was 18 she was charmed by me and told me I was just like "Anne of Green Gables" and gave me the book to read. ISTJs have an inner INFP of whimsy that tends to remain underdeveloped, but still has a deep longing to get out. She always felt connected to me and I think it was because I could connect to that inner, sternly suppress feeling of whimsy and imagination she possessed.

I also work with many, many, many Si-doms in music. There are many intensely introverted, but sensory oriented, traditional based individuals attracted to becoming classical pianists. It provides structure, guidelines, tradition, nuance, detail, linear thinking, a path to the "best way" to achieve a concrete result. I think that the beauty of the music satisfied that deepest inner need. As teachers, they are focused, tend to be correct, but can be stern about students not practicing, not being on time, not doing what they are supposed to do.

It is an interesting, important, stabilizing personality type that does have a deep, private inner soul. I felt a special role with my aunt having my NF quality to connect to her. I felt like it balanced and soothed her to know I could hear the stories in the walls next to her mahogany staircase leading up to her apartment. I loved her and understood her harshness at times, her rigidity, feelings of exactness and responsibility. She went to an extreme with it just like Ni-doms can go to extremes. She was soothed by my presence, and I admired her deeply,

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

An important thing to remember about ISTJs, even more than INTPs (I think), is that they like to show they care about through actions, not words. They are private, but they clearly have feelings, like anyone else.

Establishing trust with them and letting them know that you have their back seems to help a great deal.

 

[/DG/]

They are private, but they clearly have feelings, like anyone else.

What??? Who told you that? We don't have feelings!

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What??? Who told you that? We don't have feelings!

I've been able deduced their existence from observation of my dad. Feelings CONFIRMED.

 

[CheshireCat]

Lol. So I had this amusing transaction with my ISTJ friend.

Me: I'm excited it's friday!
ISTJ: Me too. Especially since today is like a bonus day.
Me: What do you mean?
ISTJ: Well, first there was thursay and now it's friday...
Me: I still don't get it
ISTJ: nevermind
Me: OH! I get it! You mean hanging out with me- don't you?
ISTJ: Right

 

[Sunny Ghost]

How to break through to an ISTJ?

-Be reliable.
-Be strong and confident.
-Be on time.
-Stand up for what you believe. (It touches their inner Fi.)
-Drink whiskey with them.
-Sing songs merrily with them.

I've known two ISTJ's that I absolutely adored. One female and one male. They are closed off, but very cool, interesting and bad ass. And when they have something on their mind they want to talk about, they'll tell you to take a shot of whiskey with them. Just do it and let their insides pour out.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

 

[zulidadwi]

It's impossible, except if you were :

- my family and the close one for many years
- my boyfriend with more than 3 years
- an extrovert person, because I like the optimism

The point is, you need time, and deep interaction with us *a chemistry I thing

 

[Raffaella]

It's taken me almost two years to establish that my mother's an ISTJ since I thought she was ISFJ (gender roles threw my investigation off). Typing my friend as ISTJ tipped me off to my mother's true type. Every ISTJ I'd met before has been abrasive and domineering. My friend and my mother are very reserved and gentle, they put on an image of being contained so it's difficult to recognise how wounded they are since they carry their burdens patiently. The title duty-fulfiller fits, they're bound to them and sacrifice their positions for others and, unlike ISFJs, you won't get passive-aggressive behaviour as a result (which is a virtue and a vice). They can be surprisingly passive with accepting these duties although when you question them, they emphasise obligation and commitment. In short, the flipped INFP - the silent martyrs. The word "duty" (encompassing terms and synonyms) doesn't exist in my dictionary.

My friend confined in me that it was comforting to have someone to vent to however I noticed that she never complained about the duties that bothered her. I put the pieces together and realised she was sacrificing her career choice for her family but then I realised that she didn't seem to even know how unreasonable their expectations were because she was so wrapped up in responsibility and reliability. This is similar to my mother who's been caring for my ungrateful grandmother, when I tell my mother to confine in me, she'll only complain about trivial aspects. It took five years for her to discuss the issues she has with her mother even though she said she appreciated having an ear, she was still very cagey.

... I wonder if their guarded nature, caused by weakness in determining the trustworthiness of others, is the effect of inferior Ne? I notice INTJs are quick to grasp the virtuous nature of people and I think it's because Se is tangible (that inner ISFP).

I'll have more thoughts to add later.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Haha...yeah, I will admit this is a really hard thing to accomplish. First, it depends on how long you have known this particular ISTJ. If you've just met them, expect to be patient because we have to be really comfortable with someone before we open up. At least for me, (and I think ISTJ's in general) we are extremely selective as to who we let get close to us, and we will always observe from the get-go what we do and do not like about you. Above all though, you must be consistent! We don't care nearly as much about faults as we do consistency...we can certainly love you for being quirky, but we will run away from you for being "sketchy." I suppose the best advice I can give you is to make yourself visible...as in be around often, but not excessively. Like, somehow fit yourself into the ISTJ's weekly routine. Be positive, but witty and challenging at the same time.

Once you've broken into their bubble, try and shake them up a bit by being a little spontaneous and trying something out of the ordinary. Although we are often perceived as stuffy, boring people who are married to our schedules we really do enjoy being challenged with something new every once in awhile. Personally, I love physical or outdoor activities...somewhere where it can be just the 2 of you sharing in a mutual activity...it makes things much more comfortable and therefore more conducive to deeper conversations. Start out small though, don't just be like, "So...tell me your deepest thoughts and desires." Hahaha, that would be like my worst nightmare.

My mom is an ISTJ and this is amazingly accurate.

 

[BWCB1890]

Always keep your foes confused. If they don't know who you are or what you want, they can't know what you plan to do next.