LucrativeSid
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- Oct 20, 2007
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If you INFJs have been trying to manipulate people in this thread, you've been doing a shitty job!
If you INFJs have been trying to manipulate people in this thread, you've been doing a shitty job!
....
What is the nature of these 'pings'? What is the meaning you search for? How do you feel and what do you do if you send a 'ping' out and get a completely unexpected response?
Anyway, thanks INFJs for your honesty!
I think INFJs have an awesome ability to not only care and empathize with people, but to take a detached perspective on things (unless it comes to themselves ) while balancing all of that on the quick-witted scale of experience. It makes for a very good manipulation set-up, though admittably I have never seen the INFJ I know to do anything even selfish in nature. If it benefits him, it does. If it does not though, he's still just as happy to be honest and open about what he evaluates. A pleasent surprise like a win-win isn't common, but when it occurs all the better is the attitude I've seen.
I'm really hoping INFJs aren't as much of saints as the make out to be. Cos sometimes it can feel like eternity shackled to boredom. Maybe if some more evils got out then more character would be seen. For an ENFP just being nice and thoughtful rarely attracts me. It is great for society in a rigid, old fashioned, "lets do nothing wrong and make everyone else feel they have to toe the line also" way. But really come on and unleash. You are NFs!!! Bring on unplanned, wild entertainment. ENFJs have the evil in them, a bit of introversion can't change things that much.
Yeah, but you can manipulate someone into doing something that they need to do if they're not able to figure it out for themselves. Thats what counselors are for. And thats how INFJs work. I'm not bragging about it, I never was, which is what I think you're getting from all this. I was just giving my thoughts on the matter.
It isn't my fault I happen to appreciate the traits I have in this regard and consider them a strength.
Thats the beauty of an INFJ. We can take a third party NT approach and advise them in the best course of action. Our NF allows us to put ourselves in their shoes and understand where they're coming from as well. Because of this, we're able to give sound advice in a caring manner. It makes us very comforting to talk to. And I won't apologize for that. I enjoy that strength, and I enjoy helping people I care about with it.
And when you say that, you're basically saying all real therapists are scary and narcissistic, and thats fucking stupid. People come to me.
The difference between them and me is that counseling people comes naturally for me, and since I never took a Hippocratic oath and I'm not gettiing paid, I technically don't have to help them. But I do anyway.
Is it so wrong that sometimes, I can persuade them in a right course of action that will benefit myself as well?
I'm really hoping INFJs aren't as much of saints as the make out to be. Cos sometimes it can feel like eternity shackled to boredom. Maybe if some more evils got out then more character would be seen. For an ENFP just being nice and thoughtful rarely attracts me. It is great for society in a rigid, old fashioned, "lets do nothing wrong and make everyone else feel they have to toe the line also" way. But really come on and unleash. You are NFs!!! Bring on unplanned, wild entertainment. ENFJs have the evil in them, a bit of introversion can't change things that much.
I see nothing wrong with anything I said; there's nothing to apologize for. If he doesn't want to be criticized ever, he shouldn't be posting on an internet forum. I had every right to comment on what he said. I was not attacking him, so there is no problem with the points I brought up. I tend to forget that not everyone is as objective as I am when things get heated, hence the misunderstanding on his part.I also like this part here, where you proceed to read that he strongly values poetic justice, and you start to criticize it anyways. Then you expect him not to take things personally, after a very personal and heated debate. Instead of apologizing for your mayhap cross words, you simply justify them by sayign he's being personal. Blaming someone's sensitivity isn't the right way to go about things.
I was trying to describe the automatic process that I am sure all INFJ engage in when interacting with others, we are looking for clues. 'Searching' the other person. Trying to figure you out. People are puzzles. And it is not meant to be invasive, but is a way for us to 'see' you in order to relate, connect or analyze. I would feel lost without it. I don't use whatever I glean to manipulate, I just want to figure out how the other person works tbh. I very much enjoy when I get back something I wasn't expecting, though with a new person I rarely have predetermined ideas.
Well some are and many aren't [saints]. (INFJ can hold themselves to very high standards.)
So perhaps, in that respect, I define 'INFJ manipulation' as more of a form of teaching, albeit the student typically remains unaware that they've been seated at a desk, reading my scrawlings on the chalkboard at all.
I've never seen giving people guidance or steering them in a certain direction as manipulation. Because if I'm doing this, it's because someone came to me and asked for my input. I always think of manipulation as twisting someone to bend to your will, usually without them knowing it. I think INFJs mostly want people to find their own potential, and hopefully use that potential toward some kind of greater good. (Fruitless goal, I know).
For one, by definition you cannot "manipulate" someone into doing something they want.
INFJs can be extremely good at inciting flames and emotional drama with their Fe. ENTPs are generally more innocent and can't hide their true motivations as much. Although I hesitate to say anything absolutely.
In my head I have a mental image of the INFJ picking up a person as if they are a new toy, and inspecting it from all different angles. The INFJ then presses various buttons, but does it oh-so-gently. They want to get enough response to gain viable information, but do not want to disturb the toy... or to be noticed. They then extrapolate this information (if I press here harder, the toy will probably do this) to learn how to probably play nicely with the toy, or make it do what they want it to do without breaking it.
Any of that ring true?
I see nothing wrong with anything I said; there's nothing to apologize for. If he doesn't want to be criticized ever, he shouldn't be posting on an internet forum. I had every right to comment on what he said. I was not attacking him, so there is no problem with the points I brought up. I tend to forget that not everyone is as objective as I am when things get heated, hence the misunderstanding on his part.
On another note, I can see how some people would have interpreted his post as really negative, but I'm familiar with the details and it's not that bad.
I was also shocked, BMS, by some of your statements. I've read you for several months now and see you as an honorable person. The way you worded your experiences sounded like taking advantage of others.
I think you will think about this some and realize that you had slipped into a mode of thinking which may not match your true values. That's very easy to do if you've been hanging with guys that devalue their relationships with women. Maybe you'd just been stuck for a while in a mode that isn't really you?
If you take an honest look at what you said about not wanting to influence others for harm and then the violation of your personal value in doing just that for everyone to see, you can see how others may mistrust your integrity.
We all make this mistake at times. Keep plugging away at making your behavior consistently match your values and it will happen less often. You strike me as someone who is in the process.
And we are all in process of becoming our ultimate realization of self. Recognizing and owning, without excuse or explanation, when we make an error helps keep us on track.
You may grow no further than a "tit for tat" mentality and that will probably still be sufficient for a satisfying life. My guess is that you would prefer to elevate yourself beyond that position.
Wow, I feel like I have some great power of manipulation that I haven't been using.