[NT] Who is more concise: INTP or INTJ?

[freeeekyyy]

That was my point. To claim that NTJs are so much "more emo" than NTPs is kind of silly. Emotions and feelings affect everyone, including all four types of NT.

 

[Craft]

When I ramble, it's usually breadth over depth. It's difficult to elaborate on only one point, because, to me, the point, if said once, cannot be any more said. 1 + 1 = 2. What else is there to say about that? I can talk about the idea of quantity and its usefulness in our empirical reality. I could talk about "1" and the special things surrounding this particular quantity, or the quantity "2" and its properties, or the operation that is "+", or even the state of "=", but this is already what I mean by breadth over depth. I can only talk plenty on the plenty.

I debate at school, and going according to theory of "concise in arguments-INTP", I am the quickest speaker in our entire debate organization. I think I say the most with the least words though, but that's according to my understanding of what I said. I also think that xNTJs on the same club elaborate too much on the irrelevant.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Another question for the INTs: how ramble-y (or otherwise) are you in private correspondence with friends (e.g. emails )?

Honestly, I never ramble.

I mean, people that ramble kinda bug me.

Like one time I was in school, well, technically I wasn't IN school, but it was during school...I mean, not school time, but I was enrolled. Anyway, this girl I knew in class (I met her while walking to one of my favorite restaurants, El Cholo*, which is a Mexican restaurant that has these vegetarian tacos and 15 different salsas (and I'm a salsa prostitute)) called me to go over an assignment we had for psychology. I think it was a social psychology assignment, because I remember thinking it was dumb, and at the time, I thought social psychology was just idiotic, but later I thought it was really clever. Anyway, she calls me, and starts telling me about her boyfriend. And I was like "wtf? Can we talk about the assignment?" because I didn't have that much time because I had to go to the gym, because at that time, I was working out a lot because I was trying to get fit, because Summer was coming up and I wanted to look good in my Spedo. BITCH WOULD NOT STOP RAMBLING. So annoying.


* I think this is a slur, but that would be weird, right? Like if I named a restaurant The Shiksa or The Jew. Not that I would. (Name it that. Not own a restaurant. I've always wanted to own a cafe or something, but I've only worked in one for a short time, and I don't think I could manage it. Not that I'm an idiot or anything, but still...

 

[Salomé]

That was my point. To claim that NTJs are so much "more emo" than NTPs is kind of silly. Emotions and feelings affect everyone, including all four types of NT.

"emo" has specific connotations which are not found in the parent word.



I was mocking you (gently).
It's an intellectual response to absurdity.

 

[rav3n]

Oh no, Ne-Ti does not ramble. And neither does Ti-Ne or Ni-Te!

 

[1487610420]

Is it time for that "one time at band camp..." joke yet?

 

[greenfairy]

After years spent on INTPc, INTJf, and this forum...

INTJs start off fairly concise, but often fall into the trap of the point-by-point rebuttal.

INTPs are accused of the "wall of text" but this is actually fairly rare.

The most obvious "wall of text" posters are often in fact accused of being non-INTPs by other INTPs. INTPs prefer precision and long texts are scattered, not precise. The INTP often strives to write an elegant turn of phrase (often metaphor) that encapsulates the entire idea. The INTP can certainly ramble on a subject they favor... but it has to be a subject they enjoy and are knowledgeable about. Most are also aware that such rambling is frowned upon, so they limit it unless they believe they are given permission to ramble and detail every point and digression about their thinking process on the subject.

Note about etiquette taken.

 

[greenfairy]

Other than forums like this one, where else are we going to have a large sample of people that we believe are INTPs or INTJs?

Maybe at a chess club, or a hackers convention or something, but the P-J dichotomy is pretty hard to nail down in those groups (even when we look at Ti v. Te, Ni vs Ne, etc.)

Dragon Con! I haven't been, but it sounds cool. I would expect it would be filled with INXX's, and the majority INTX's. (If you were to hypothetically find yourself there, with some method of conducting research.)

Seriously though, you can look at statistics and other people's research. Which is still flawed as it is (probably) usually based on people simply taking the test and not giving it a second thought, so many people are probably mistyped; but it's an option.

 

[ygolo]

Dragon Con! I haven't been, but it sounds cool. I would expect it would be filled with INXX's, and the majority INTX's. (If you were to hypothetically find yourself there, with some method of conducting research.)

Seriously though, you can look at statistics and other people's research. Which is still flawed as it is (probably) usually based on people simply taking the test and not giving it a second thought, so many people are probably mistyped; but it's an option.

Little research is done using MBTI these days, the Five Factor Model has become much more popular in academia.

Also, if you know of any research that studied personality and concision, please let me know.

 

[greenfairy]

INTPs are very detail oriented people.
INTJs are very big picture oriented people.
INTJs are therefore more concise.
INTPs though are better at explaining things.
They both have their uses then though Te is probably more useful than Ti.

Then people who are INTX flip flop between super concise and the opposite of concise. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees and not seeing the trees because you are flying miles above it and it looks like a sea of green, at the same time. Either brilliant and extremely effective or completely incomprehensible.

Just a theory.

 

[greenfairy]

Little research is done using MBTI these days, the Five Factor Model has become much more popular in academia.

Also, if you know of any research that studied personality and concision, please let me know.

K. I always imagine there is a lot of research. I don't actually look at a lot of it. Good to know.

Here's my take: INTPs and INTJs both tend to be concise in communication unless it's an area of interest (both being introverts and thinkers caring less for social verbal padding as a general rule). When they do hit an area of interest, both can go into an incredible amount of (sometimes mind-numbing) detail... although perhaps less so than ISJs.

In writing, I think both can go on at length but INTPs are far more prone to a walls of text (as one idea flows into another in an expanding web of connection). INTJs tend to be much more structured when they write at length: more structure (like headings) but a bit less flow.

I do find it a bit odd that the forum has shifted more toward a reactive, terse style of posting, often without much explanation or substance. It's been a little odd reading about people hating walls of text (or vying over who is more concise), when I've internally had the opposite complaint... I find it hard to see how someone posting "that's wrong/stupid/mean" without farther clarification adds much to the conversation.

Of course, I'm certainly a wall-of-texter, myself.

I love walls of text; as long as they appear to have a point- preferably several subpoints. The more organized the better.

Speaking personally, I'm a compulsive editor. I always think you can say more with less. I only tend to write a lot when I don't have time to write less. What you see from an INTP (who isn't just being lazy and not engaging their brain in the way that most of us here fail to do) is the end result of a whole turmoil of disjointed speculative thought, filtered, and filtered, and filtered again, until only the purest essence remains. The resulting text tends to be very dense, sometimes with layers upon layers of meaning packed into it. With the kind of pleasing ambiguities that Ne delights in. I don't know why this pleases us, but it does. I alluded to this in one of the few lengthy posts I've ever made here. This post was long because the idea of the "Ti aesthetic" was just occurring to me and I was still working through it. But you will note that no one bothered to engage with me, because it's almost considered poor form to have this much text in one post. People are here mostly just to have fun, after all (and to pick-up chicks . Which makes the investment required to create a thorough and thought-provoking post more often than not, a poor one.

I know, right? I find my walls of text which I word carefully (which I really like doing but am often too impatient) are often read exactly the same as my more rambling ones, which is that people take one or two words that jump out at them and use those to draw extreme conclusions which contradict what I've said in the details.

As for myself (and I may not be INTX), I'm weird enough that I think out loud to myself to organize my thoughts and collect all the details; then I forget them. Then I do it again later, remembering the important bits in summary, then forget the details again. This is how I go through the filtering process. Sadly, by the time I have an organized and concise stream thoughts, the details have buried themselves so deep in my unconscious that it takes me forever to find them.

But I'm weird.

Another question for the INTs: how ramble-y (or otherwise) are you in private correspondence with friends (e.g. emails )?

I tend to summarize into the big picture, with a few entertaining *analogies and *metaphors to summarize the details; usually involving comparisons and contrasts.

*(Technically, we should probably say "similes" since we are making a comparison using the word "like" a lot, but whatever. No one says "simile" outside of an English classroom. A metaphor says something is something else, and an analogy compares 4 things- an analogy is to a proportion as a simile is to a ratio.) <-- Do you see what I did there?? (Maybe I'm wrong, but you get the idea.)

 

[greenfairy]

Oh no, Ne-Ti does not ramble. And neither does Ti-Ne or Ni-Te!

Ne is practically the definition of rambling, and Fi is prone to wander. (So the most rambl-y combination is Ne+Fi.) Ti is the opposite of rambling; it is linear. (I'm not sure how Ni+Te produce concision.) INTP has Ne aux, and INTJ has Fi tert. So either type can be capable of rambling if either Ne or Fi takes over. The types pretty much balance out. As far as being strictly lengthy is concerned, that's more a combination of factors centered around the T functions.


Ne rambling:
T functions
T-cells
tea functions
tea sells
Functioning sells.
Functioning cells.
My function is to sell tea.
I drink tea and my cells function.
Tea is good.

^
l

This is impeccable logic.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Is there a certain point in this thread where the option "neither" suddenly appears?

 

[Glycerine]

Then people who are INTX flip flop between super concise and the opposite of concise. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees and not seeing the trees because you are flying miles above it and it looks like a sea of green, at the same time. Either brilliant and extremely effective or completely incomprehensible.

Just a theory.

Try taking a philosophy class. Oh dear god. Haha
EDIT: I meant there are a lot of INTX.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

INTPs can go on and on and ON about the difference between turning on a light switch and turning it off.
Intjs tend to be much shorter and metaphorical.

 

[Salomé]

Oh no, Ne-Ti does not ramble. And neither does Ti-Ne or Ni-Te!

In informal, personal correspondence, I can ramble a good deal, if I think the other person will be able and willing to follow. I never, ever ramble when I speak. Ever. I consider it bad manners. Why should anyone be forced to listen to brain diarrhoea?

K.
I tend to summarize into the big picture, with a few entertaining *analogies and *metaphors to summarize the details; usually involving comparisons and contrasts.

*(Technically, we should probably say "similes" since we are making a comparison using the word "like" a lot, but whatever. No one says "simile" outside of an English classroom. A metaphor says something is something else, and an analogy compares 4 things- an analogy is to a proportion as a simile is to a ratio.) <-- Do you see what I did there?? (Maybe I'm wrong, but you get the idea.)

Who is we? I use the word analogy when it is appropriate to do so. An analogy is not the same as a simile, a simile is a figure of speech.

Is there a certain point in this thread where the option "neither" suddenly appears?

No. This is not one of those magical threads. Keep looking.

 

[freeeekyyy]

"emo" has specific connotations which are not found in the parent word.

I was mocking you (gently).
It's an intellectual response to absurdity.

Maybe this is an Fe/Fi thing, because ime, it seems like if anything, INTPs are more likely to emotionally react during argument than INTJs. It's probably misinterpreted by the other type and they're assumed to be reacting "more emo"than than they actually are.

 

[Salomé]

Maybe this is an Fe/Fi thing, because ime, it seems like if anything, INTPs are more likely to emotionally react during argument than INTJs. It's probably misinterpreted by the other type and they're assumed to be reacting "more emo"than than they actually are.

You might be right.

 

[greenfairy]

Try taking a philosophy class. Oh dear god. Haha
EDIT: I meant there are a lot of INTX.

Yes, this too! I'm taking 3 right now as it's my major. Hadn't thought about that.

Who is we? I use the word analogy when it is appropriate to do so. An analogy is not the same as a simile, a simile is a figure of speech.

I meant people collectively on here and in everyday life who I've heard say "analogy" and make them. I'm glad someone uses them appropriately. Not that it's important, it just makes me happy.