When we accuse others of making a superficial judgment we ourselves are making a superficial judgment. And that about not wanting to be associated with someone for such a reason... very superficial indeed.
Of course you are free to judge however you'd like, but you don't seem to be grasping that I don't feel like my judgments
are superficial. These are people I have known for a lengthy time and have cared about extensively, and who have hurt me and others around them to the extent that I feel like I don't want to risk their presence in my life again. It's not about whether I approve of their actions or not - they can do whatever they want with their lives - but it is about whether I feel like I want their influence in my life and whether I trust them to treat others in my life with respect and caring as well. I want nothing more than for them to have happy and healthy lives. But how can I continue to encourage them have a presence in my life when they feel like it's okay to insult and hurt people I care about? I would LOVE to welcome them back into my life if they are willing to change that. I would welcome them with open arms. I feel like I have given them many chances. And I am still very open to it if the signs indicate otherwise.
Anyway, valaki, I was friends with the girl in the first example for several years when I was young, when we had dance class together, then we went to different schools, and then later we went to the same school and became close friends for four years. We rode the bus together every day, had homeroom together, hung out at each others' houses, and shared each others' secrets. I visited her at her college 5 hours away from home not long before this happened. I always tried hard to be accepting of her and her girlfriends and friends, who were very different than the people I tended to hang out with. I found it cruel that she would suddenly attack me and the people that were important to me, especially when I had always tried to be accepting of her. Then I tried to talk to her about it afterwards and she told me that she was sorry I was hurt but that was her opinion of me and my friends and it wasn't changing. I tried several times before eventually giving up.
If you feel like you would have acted better in this scenario, what would you have done? Would you just stay friends with them and have continued to listen to them insulting you and the other people you care about? Would you not feel like you were betraying the people you cared about?
Have you ever tried to understand what her real problem was with the manager? And that husband... how was that relevant to your relationship with this girl?
In her place I would feel it's unfair treatment breaking a relationship just because of some completely unrelated thing. Nobody's a saint!
Yes, I know what her real problem was. She had applied for the job that he had gotten, and she was angry because she felt like she deserved it more. He had more management experience than her - she had none - which was why they chose him. I also applied for that job, which is how I know. She was accusing him of doing things that I know he didn't do because
I was there. She was lying and getting angry at people in our department for not lying to support her. She made our workdays awful. One young girl confided in me that she hated coming to work when this girl was working too, because she made the atmosphere so unbearable. That's not fair to anyone.
As for the relationship, she spent days and days and days ranting - loudly and angrily monologuing and demanding agreement from those of us around her - about how she was a good wife, how she would never cheat, how it was disgusting that people thought there was anything going on between her and the guy she eventually got into a relationship with. From her own account of things, she
was cheating with him when she was spending her days at work raving about her "never cheating". She would insult people for implying it. So, yes, she did involve me in this relationship issue, because she got personally angry at me for not speaking up in defense of her. Again, she was lying and getting angry at people for not supporting her lies. I tried to talk to her, but she was so angry all the time. I tried on facebook and in person. I tried with friends and alone. It got so bad that management began talking to her about needing to stop her behavior in the workplace. She was making everyone miserable.
Eventually she got a new job, and last time she came back in I tried to talk to her. She asked me where someone else was and didn't say another word to me.
Again, I ask, how would you have handled the situation better?
Anyway, it was an interesting read about how Fi works... Still this sort of Fi stuff makes me mad and everything.
I think it's strange that you have made such quick judgments about my judgment without understanding these situations through my perspective. I think your mentioning Fi is important... I guess there's some sort of disconnect there. To me these feelings of anger and my harshest judgments (which evidently sound superficial on your end) that I've expressed arise from defensive desire to protect what I care about. As a fellow P I tend
not to make "final" judgments and I tend to listen for information, and it takes a high level of perceived "danger" to make me behave as such, so when I hear this tone from another person, I tend to empathize and understand that these are extreme measures taken in extreme situations, and I tend to probe for the extremity of feeling if it's not immediately evident. Your reaction of dismissal and disgust is a fairly foreign one to my perspective.
[MENTION=17945]Misty[/MENTION] made another relevant point in another thread, which is this:
I think instinctual variant has the biggest impact on what "protected" means to each individual, and yes, it can vary greatly.
To me these scenarios are mainly about protecting the people I care about as well as myself from those who choose to be harmful without remorse. I guess that's a pretty Social-style way of looking at things, the need to protect your "herd" from a "dangerous" person. I can see how it could be aggravating to other variants. I can already hear my Sp-first boyfriend saying that every person has a native ability to reason for themselves and to decide for themselves whether that "dangerous" person is really dangerous to them and whether they should avoid them or not - that I don't really need to do that for others. But to me it feels like I would be betraying the people I love if I encouraged someone that I witnessed being hurtful against them to continue to be in my life.
I hope that puts some of this in better perspective. I'm not trying to argue that I necessarily did what's best or right, but I feel like these were very much not superficial decisions. The level of negative emotion coming through is proportional to how much distress the situation caused me, as these were people I
liked and looked up to. There's very little pleasing about cutting them off in my life. I miss them.
Eh, it was at work and she had more seniority. I kind of had to keep it together, lol. 
Definitely something to rethink in how I live.
This particular time, maybe I subconsciously didn't want to be understood because I was describing a process that is actually pretty selfish. Sometimes we do explain to the point that it defeats the purpose, and de-abstracting this one lays its nature properly bare. Thanks for prompting me to do that. It means more than a short-winded post would have you think.
