When INFPs go bad: The Elusive INFP Villain in Fiction

[bilbotook]

Max Dillon aka Electro from Spider Man. Likable guy but he let his emotions get the better of him. It's hard not to feel bad for him.

 

[big sexy]

As long as we're talking about uncommon villain types, can anyone think of any ENFP or ESFP villains?

Pretty much INFPs are equals to everyone else in how they can be villainous. The difference is in why.

1. Moral reasons - John Brown, Charles J. Guitea, I was almost going to say Lee Harvey Oswald, but that face is neutral. Way too neutral. Hrrm. Maybe he was the illusive psychopath INFP. Oh well. Klebold, he was VERY political. He was quite dissatisfied with society. Felt that it should change (a little help from the psychopath didn't hurt to push him over the edge). Changed it.

Calling real people villains is kinda iffy IMO. I've read a bit about Lee Harvey Oswald, he seems like an ISTP. Can't comment on the others.

 

[Riva]

Not much in the anti-hero category unless you count Llewyn Davis from Inside Llewyn Davis.

Infps and estjs are probably the least used movie, novel characters. When estjs are used they are always used negatively. Woody from toy story and that star wars princes are the only exceptions. Riker from star trek is probably one too. Hard to tell.

So yeah southern kross you are never going to get a chance to sell your autobiograohy into a movie. Unless you are a crime fighting, bike riding, tattooed badass fighting crime in ...... shit you live in new zealand. No crimes either. A shepard. A badass shepard.

May I suggest...a silent movie?

How can we observe their internal drama? There has to be plenty of internal monologues. You know NFs.

 

[blahblahbob]

Not much in the anti-hero category unless you count Llewyn Davis from Inside Llewyn Davis.

Sigh... I think you're just one of the very nice INFPs who pays no attention to the dark side of the INFP. I like fictional evil people because they're interesting. Some real evil people are interesting too, but not in a way I can kind of laugh like at fictional ones:

 

[Southern Kross]

Infps and estjs are probably the least used movie, novel characters. When estjs are used they are always used negatively. Woody from toy story and that star wars princes are the only exceptions. Riker from star trek is probably one too. Hard to tell.

Woody is probably a ESFJ.

ESTJs are often portrayed negatively in fiction but there are plenty of good ones out there. I have some on my list.

Sigh... I think you're just one of the very nice INFPs who pays no attention to the dark side of the INFP. I like fictional evil people because they're interesting. Some real evil people are interesting too, but not in a way I can kind of laugh like at fictional ones:

*Sigh* You're very dramatic. Stop trying so hard - you've only been here 5 minutes.

I would disagree with 2 out of 3 of those as INFPs. Sweeney Todd, like I said, I haven't seen. I don't know who the other is (willow from Buffy? If so, maybe).

 

[blahblahbob]

I would disagree with 2 out of 3 of those as INFPs. Sweeney Todd, like I said, I haven't seen. I don't know who the other is (willow from Buffy? If so, maybe).

Yes, Willow - the evil Willow - who decides to destroy the world and can only be stopped by, of course, hugs. I've put up 3 clips from Sweeney Todd... I've not seen him typed as anything else online except one person who said ISTP which is just extremely off.

I vacillate between INFP and ISFP for Phantom but settle on INFP because of his single-mindedness in pursuing Christine when an ISFP might not be so precise and obsessive - nor as longwinded in pursuing (stalking) a romantic interest . He is very Se in some of his songs. But he's also Ne in other parts. He's not Ti at all, and given that only Se and Ne can fit, he must be Fi which fits his emotional outbursts as well as the way he hides the extremity of his emotions when in the company of others. Also, coincidentally like Willow, he's stopped by a kiss. And, that's how you know he's not actually Se because only an Ne would find a kiss without love hollow after the level of Phantom's madness.

Anyway - I'm ok with a few completely nuts INFP characters. Nothing like actually being INFJ and sharing type with actual terrorists and genocidal maniacs.

I'm less certain with Anakin, I've not seen the Star Wars movies in a long time and it's not on Netflix.

 

[Southern Kross]

The phantom is a 4w5 for sure, which is easily confused for a straight INFP correlation (which it isn't necessarily). I went back and forth for ages on his MBTI but I would say INFJ is more likely. He plans and tries to control things too much to be a INFP. He has that wayward INFJ going on - he's very like a whole range of INFJ characters that start off well but have gone off the rails (eg. Loki, Gollum, Ra’s al Ghul, or V from V for Vendetta).

Anakin Skywalker is very likely a ISFP.

 

[blahblahbob]

The phantom is a 4w5 for sure, which is easily confused for a straight INFP correlation (which it isn't necessarily). I went back and forth for ages on his MBTI but I would say INFJ is more likely. He plans and tries to control things too much to be a INFP. He has that wayward INFJ going on - he's very like a whole range of INFJ characters that start off well but have gone off the rails (eg. Loki, Gollum, Ra’s al Ghul, or V from V for Vendetta).

Anakin Skywalker is very likely a ISFP.

Nothing about Phantom is Fe. Sure, the V guy is INFJ - but that's because he's Ni-Fe. He's driven by a political ideology, an Ni interpretation of the world which manifests in the very strong Fe need for control of the environment.

Phantom is driven by an Fi desire. He's poor at planning, isn't even sure what his ultimate goal is, and doesn't even understand his own motivations completely as evidenced by being kissed by Christine and understanding that without her actual love, he is not ok.

I honestly think you're just associating V's political (Fe) kidnapping/protector nature with what's her name with Phantom's love(in the very unhealthy sense)-oriented (Fi) kidnapping. However, I'm not extremely familiar with V and have never seen the movie - I despise INFJs and have never liked any of their characters. I've always hated characters like Batman since I was a little kid.

 

[blahblahbob]

The phantom is a 4w5 for sure, which is easily confused for a straight INFP correlation (which it isn't necessarily). I went back and forth for ages on his MBTI but I would say INFJ is more likely. He plans and tries to control things too much to be a INFP. He has that wayward INFJ going on - he's very like a whole range of INFJ characters that start off well but have gone off the rails (eg. Loki, Gollum, Ra’s al Ghul, or V from V for Vendetta).

Anakin Skywalker is very likely a ISFP.

We are talking about the Lloyd Weber musical Phantom right? Not the books? I'm not familiar with the books.

 

[Southern Kross]

We are talking about the Lloyd Weber musical Phantom right? Not the books? I'm not familiar with the books.

Yeah. I haven't read the books either.

 

[blahblahbob]

Yeah. I haven't read the books either.

Here's a thread arguing about Phantom: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-and-type/32250-phantom-opera-characters.html

I think there's probably enough INFP votes for me to include him on my "Evil INFP" poster.

Sweeney is all Fi/Si Ne in the Sondheim musical. And Willow - couldn't come up with anything but INFP for her.

There be some evil INFP characters - just something we got to live with. Personally I think they're badass evil characters - there's nothing like a truly memorable and great villain/antihero in literature.

 

[Southern Kross]

Here's a thread arguing about Phantom: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-and-type/32250-phantom-opera-characters.html

I think there's probably enough INFP votes for me to include him on my "Evil INFP" poster.

Your prerogative. I simply disagree.

There be some evil INFP characters - just something we got to live with. Personally I think they're badass evil characters - there's nothing like a truly memorable and great villain/antihero in literature.

I'm not trying to make INFPs look better here. I just don't think they fit the traditional 'evil' mold in fiction well. It's not that I'm in denial about the existence of truly horrible INFPs or that I can't stand seeing a INFP bad guy.

 

[blahblahbob]

Your prerogative. I simply disagree.


I'm not trying to make INFPs look better here. I just don't think they fit the traditional 'evil' mold in fiction well. It's not that I'm in denial about the existence of truly horrible INFPs or that I can't stand seeing a INFP bad guy.

I understand your position - sort of. Phantom is a solid example of Fi's nature:

"The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence." - Jung


Fi seeks to give reality to itself - it sees what it wants to see. Phantom sees exactly what he wants to see and doesn't stop seeing it until Christine finally kisses him at the end and he realizes that it's an illusion.

 

[grey_beard]

Yeah. I haven't read the books either.

Well, the books had less singing.
And they explain the why behind "keep your hand at the level of your eyes" in a more suspenseful, and successfully creepy, way.

 

[Rambling]

I think Mrs Lancaster in the Christie novel By the Pricking of my Thumbs would count as an INFP villainess...her thinking developed into the logic that her child died and she could not have any more children...so no other child should live...poison and suspense and very quiet ruthlessness...

 

[Avocado]

This is interesting.

 

[blahblahbob]

This is interesting.

What is?

 

[chubber]

The Grinch who stole Christmas.

 

[blahblahbob]

The Grinch who stole Christmas.

INFJ --- way too much Fe in Grinch.

INFJs are the Grinches who steal Christmas and the Antia Sarkeesians who go into fury that people are having fun on their video games.

 

[blahblahbob]

When estjs are used they are always used negatively.

Hmmm... well, ESTJs are usually one of the furthest from creative types so they'll be less likely to be easily conceived by a writer who will probably be more drawn to his own types.

Aragorn is definitely ESTJ. Maybe that President from Independence Day - lots of action movies have ESTJs. Movies are for subordinates - ESTJs are out doing stuff...