[Traditional Enneagram] What Does A "Healthy" Four Look Like?

[Dreamer]

Personally I do not care for designating whether someone is a "healthy" version of their type or not since it implies, to me, that the unhealthy version is somehow broken. But, before I take that train any further, I feel it happening already, that's not the reason behind this thread.

With Enneagram focusing on our weaknesses as a pivoting point, the point which we base many of our decisions and actions from, it is easy, and logical to solely focus on the "unhealthy" variants of this type or that when attaching an Enneagram type to a person. What though, does a "healthy" four look like then?

Like my Enneagram 9 thread, this is in part an exploration of my own potential typing, but also open to the topic in general. The main focus of this thread will be the topic expressed in the title of this thread, but I will be using the answers to help answer some of my own questions as well. Basically, there is a lot I relate to in the 4 type, but less so with the potential outward negative behaviors, I tend to express my shortcomings in other ways.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bardsandwarriors]

Someone who deals with their loss in constructive and positive ways, rather than wallowing or being miserable?

 

[Hiraeth]

Like me.

In all seriousness though, I came out from the darkness of the unhealthy stages when I started to focus on making my dreams a reality rather than wallowing in my own sorrow, wishing and daydreaming constantly.

Additionally, understanding who I am as a person and being happy with my own individuality. As long as I have a focal point and my own sense of who I am, I'm content.

Also, part of it is from not being depressed anymore, even though that is more of a psychological issue, but it did affect my overall well-being and contributed to me being miserable all the time.

I'm not close to perfection as I still have a lot of issues to deal with, but I have definitely come a long way from the person I was just over a year ago.

 

[FemMecha]

They can turn their pain into creative expression and meaning

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I'll let you know when I get there.

 

[1487610420]

 

[FemMecha]

I'm pretty sure this is an E4 on strong acid.

 

[Dreamer]

Thanks for the responses guys! I nearly forgot I created this thread. I suppose a bigger question I have is, how are you able to identify one's type, let alone your own, if you don't follow the typical tell tale signs of the unhealthy representations of each type. I can see a lot of myself in E4 for instance, but does that mean I have to be mopey and whiny? Just an example. I hope to get some more responses to this thread

 

[Hiraeth]

I don't think an e4 is necessarily whiny, at least not entirely healthy ones. I would think the stereotypical, whiny emo caricature would be more of an unhealthy e4. Unfortunately, I was like that version of an e4 during my teen years and I don't even know how I was able to live with myself when thinking back on those times.

However, I do know I am definitely an e4 despite not being the exact "woe is me" stereotype because I always think about my image and how I can stand out from others. I want to be seen as my own person with unique interests and creative pursuits. I can also relate to many of the e4 descriptions about how they are very idealistic and daydreamy, are able to find beauty in the unconventional, and use art as a way to express themselves.

Although, there is usually some feeling of inferiority, as if you can never really fit in anywhere. I think that is the one negative attribute a typical e4 possesses. Ever since I was very little, I always felt outside of the bubble no matter how hard I tried to fit in. I don't know if this would be a necessity for one to be considered an e4, but I have noticed that many seem to feel the same alienation as I do.

Lastly, I always test as an one 95% of the time, so that also provides some confirmation.

 

[geedoenfj]

That's e4 in depression

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I didn't start getting mopey and whiny (lol) until depression hit me, and at a rather late age (28 or so). But before that, I was always sort of rebellious/bohemian (still pretty stereotypical titles for 4s though). Even if I wasn't aware of it, I had always been a tad self-centered, often not considering the full effect of my behavior on others (that can also just be a youth thing). I have consistently had small pity parties though. Previous to my depression, they were focused around my childhood and how unfortunate it was that I grew up that way, and that no one who was ever supposed to love me did (still... I dunno if that's really from being a 4, or having a shitty childhood, lol).

I don't think anything I'm saying is helpful, haha.

A healthy 4 would feel confident in their self image. They would have some means of self expression, whether it be stereotypical artsy/music/writing stuff, or maybe decorating their home just how they like it. They wouldn't lash out in moody ways, they wouldn't be mopey or passive aggressive. They wouldn't be isolated.

Unless you've had a really easy life (and who has?), if you were a 4, I would think you would have seen the negatives in you by now.

 

[violet_crown]

Idealistic. As interested in cultivating the inner worlds of others as they are at imagining their own. Delighted. Curious. Nurturing.

 

[iwakar]

Idealistic. As interested in cultivating the inner worlds of others as they are at imagining their own. Delighted. Curious. Nurturing.

 

[FemMecha]

"Mopey, whiny, etc" are negative connotations for sensitivity. At first I resisted the E4 definition because I don't like having an identity of being sensitive, but there is a lot of strength in it. On the negative side it means you can take some kinds of things too personality, but on the positive side it means you are used to processing a lot of feelings and reactions. I also think a lot of the negative descriptions have to do with the fact they are calibrated differently from other people. So what I'm saying here is that what looks unhealthy to some people might be normal within the E4 way of relating to life. Some people feel like any emotional responses are "bad" and that health only occurs when people are emotionally flat and logical. Maybe that's not true?

My morality is different from the norm because I think that behaviors that attack people at their most emotionally sensitive points like their sense of self, or their feeling of trust and connection to someone important in their life, are abhorrent to a degree that society does not agree with. Society thinks it's fine to attack people's sense of self if it falls outside the norm and there are many, many socially normative behaviors that place a strain on romantic and friendship trusts. I feel that it isn't a weakness to take those core, important aspects of a person more seriously because it also makes me defend it for myself, for others, and philosophically. I find that aspect of my sensitivity to be a strength.

Here is a link that defines healthy E4s
"At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences."
Type Four — The Enneagram Institute

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

I think it may also involve sufficient emotional self-awareness. When the four learns to navigate through low moods, finds healthy ways to cope or/and even strength in their emotions. (Then again I've probably already forgot already what the four was about...)

 

[Agent Washington]

"Mopey, whiny, etc" are negative connotations for sensitivity. At first I resisted the E4 definition because I don't like having an identity of being sensitive, but there is a lot of strength in it. On the negative side it means you can take some kinds of things too personality, but on the positive side it means you are used to processing a lot of feelings and reactions. I also think a lot of the negative descriptions have to do with the fact they are calibrated differently from other people. So what I'm saying here is that what looks unhealthy to some people might be normal within the E4 way of relating to life. Some people feel like any emotional responses are "bad" and that health only occurs when people are emotionally flat and logical. Maybe that's not true?

My morality is different from the norm because I think that behaviors that attack people at their most emotionally sensitive points like their sense of self, or their feeling of trust and connection to someone important in their life, are abhorrent to a degree that society does not agree with. Society thinks it's fine to attack people's sense of self if it falls outside the norm and there are many, many socially normative behaviors that place a strain on romantic and friendship trusts. I feel that it isn't a weakness to take those core, important aspects of a person more seriously because it also makes me defend it for myself, for others, and philosophically. I find that aspect of my sensitivity to be a strength.

Here is a link that defines healthy E4s
"At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences."
Type Four — The Enneagram Institute

That somehow just encapsulated the wisdom of E4 to me, even though it took me a while to process it.

I also agree strongly with that second paragraph, but I feel like elaborating on it would probably invite unnecessary conflict (Not from you, but perhaps in the future).

I reached my current tritype by process of elimination, so I never thought too deeply about the 4. Probably time to look into it more.

 

[erg]

Healthy fours are probably boring. But I can imagine they would be something like this.

 

[five sounds]

The world may never know *bites lolly*

 

[Dreamer]

I don't think an e4 is necessarily whiny, at least not entirely healthy ones. I would think the stereotypical, whiny emo caricature would be more of an unhealthy e4. Unfortunately, I was like that version of an e4 during my teen years and I don't even know how I was able to live with myself when thinking back on those times.

However, I do know I am definitely an e4 despite not being the exact "woe is me" stereotype because I always think about my image and how I can stand out from others. I want to be seen as my own person with unique interests and creative pursuits. I can also relate to many of the e4 descriptions about how they are very idealistic and daydreamy, are able to find beauty in the unconventional, and use art as a way to express themselves.

Although, there is usually some feeling of inferiority, as if you can never really fit in anywhere. I think that is the one negative attribute a typical e4 possesses. Ever since I was very little, I always felt outside of the bubble no matter how hard I tried to fit in. I don't know if this would be a necessity for one to be considered an e4, but I have noticed that many seem to feel the same alienation as I do.

Lastly, I always test as an one 95% of the time, so that also provides some confirmation.

Thank you for this Stargaze! This is the type of description I hope to see more of on the E types.

- - - Updated - - -

The world may never know *bites lolly*

how many licks did it take you to get to the center of the tootsie pop?! It look me 73

 

[Dreamer]

I didn't start getting mopey and whiny (lol) until depression hit me, and at a rather late age (28 or so). But before that, I was always sort of rebellious/bohemian (still pretty stereotypical titles for 4s though). Even if I wasn't aware of it, I had always been a tad self-centered, often not considering the full effect of my behavior on others (that can also just be a youth thing). I have consistently had small pity parties though. Previous to my depression, they were focused around my childhood and how unfortunate it was that I grew up that way, and that no one who was ever supposed to love me did (still... I dunno if that's really from being a 4, or having a shitty childhood, lol).

I don't think anything I'm saying is helpful, haha.

A healthy 4 would feel confident in their self image. They would have some means of self expression, whether it be stereotypical artsy/music/writing stuff, or maybe decorating their home just how they like it. They wouldn't lash out in moody ways, they wouldn't be mopey or passive aggressive. They wouldn't be isolated.

Unless you've had a really easy life (and who has?), if you were a 4, I would think you would have seen the negatives in you by now.

Ahh I see I see, thanks Bird!