We are our memories

[Evee]

This is more grounded so I'll try again.

I don't think you can go insofar as to say we aren't defined by our memories. Reason being, is it's mostly left to the individual to decide what defines themselves. I wouldn't go insofar to say as ALL we are is our memories. That would be foolish. But, I would say that we are no longer "us" without them. Merely a different version of ourselves. If you started over with a clean slate, you can't ever be the person you were previously, because you'd have to copy the exact same series of events to get to that point. Still you, but not exactly you.

Is your past more meaningful to you than your future? Be honest.

 

[á´…eparted]

Is your past more meaningful to you than your future? Be honest.

No. I'm not sure I could put either one as more meaningful. They're both meaningful in different ways.

 

[Poki]

We are pulled by the future, not pushed from the past.

Depends on person and thier life

 

[Poki]

I personally am not a memory person. I do not do things for the memory, I have no desire to live in the past. I do for the future and the now. I am not a huge picture person for the sake of memory nor do I sit around much and reminisce on the past. Yeah, I have stories, but they are nothing more then understanding of things and such. I realize everyone false back on memories to some degree, but mine is very little other then explanation or examples. I don't live my life to tell a story about it. I live my life doing what I want, not by what woud be cool to hear.

 

[Kas]

My memories generate meaning but I don't think it's required to be "myself". I think we are more than that. Self-awareness seems to me like the essence of being, but it is estimated to be developed about 3rd year... So what before? I was myself before too. It would be nice (heh) to remember.

Of corse loosing my memories would be terrible, because they are very precious to me. What's more I know how painful it would be to people close to me. If I lost my memories I would still understand that I'm something distinctive from the world outside, the imborn temper would be kept, but who I would be to the people who care about me. I would loose our time together. I think it's the worst part.

 

[Bush]

we're defined by our memories, and without them we have no identity or sense of self.

Welp, I'm fucked. My memory recall is notoriously terrible.

I'd tentatively say that we are the connections that we make to and between things. They leave an impact. They dig out our neural pathways.

Here's a thought experiment to illustrate that: You're offered a week long vacation to anywhere in the world, with anyone you want. Every expense will be paid, and you will be able to do anything you want with no problem. It will essentially be the perfect trip. Would you take it? Nearly everyone would say yes. However would you take it with the following catch:

You will have absolutely no memory of the experience, with no way to recover it

Under that condition, most people will say no. Why do something if you can't remember it? It's like it never happened at all. Our memories generate meaning, and are required for us to essentially be human.

If I wanted to Gordian Knot this whole thing, I'd say that I'd take pictures and video, keep a journal, etc. so that I can review it later. But I'm sure that's out of the hypothetical too.

I'd do it because I like to do things. Why the hell would anyone turn it down? It's a choice between "Not remember anything" and "Do an awesome thing but don't remember it." Also, my memory sucks as said before, and that doesn't stop me from doing things. Memories are fine and all, but why not deny yourself the chance to live in the present?

I'm also open to questions and all. This is a neat idea and, for my own edification, I'd love to unpack it.

 

[Proctor]

Hm, interesting thought. Memory is deceptive, so often we see things as worse or better than how they were. It can only be relied on so much. I don't think our memories define us, and I don't believe you're a completely different person if you lose them. Everything you went through, all those experiences still happened. They defined and molded you, even if you don't remember them. That's to say nothing of the genetic factors that take part in the makeup of your personality.

As for the question, I think I would agree to it. While I value my memories, I don't live my life just for them. It's better to have done something incredible, to have a once in a lifetime experience even if you don't remember it. For all you know it could impact you on a profound level. And at the worst, you're not really loosing anything.

 

[miss fortune]

Muscle memory. I would go somewhere where I'd do some serious training and then I'd feel superheroic. (I hope muscle memory counts)
Oh okay sounds good.

I come back with a nice bod and never know. It'd be a fun unsolvable mystery imho. hahaha.

I was wondering how muscle memory comes into all of this as well... I use it more often than actually making a point to recall something. If I can't remember how to do something I just start in and hope that my body will remember what feels right... more often than not it remembers quite fine!

My memories generate meaning but I don't think it's required to be "myself". I think we are more than that. Self-awareness seems to me like the essence of being, but it is estimated to be developed about 3rd year... So what before? I was myself before too. It would be nice (heh) to remember.

Of corse loosing my memories would be terrible, because they are very precious to me. What's more I know how painful it would be to people close to me. If I lost my memories I would still understand that I'm something distinctive from the world outside, the imborn temper would be kept, but who I would be to the people who care about me. I would loose our time together. I think it's the worst part.

good! you got what I was kind of thinking but didn't get around to saying

even if you lose your memory, you are still aware that you are yourself (though the characteristics of that person may change in some ways). My aunt died of Pick's Disease about 10 years ago... it's a quickly moving dementia that tends to strike before the age of 65 and heavily effects the ability to speak and rationality of how one acts. (and it's why I'm kind of scared when I forget words that I'm looking for... it's hereditary). No matter how much she lost, she still had the same sense of humor. It was weird... she had to talk around words all of the time, had forgotten almost everything she had done in her life and she forgot how to walk, but she could still insult us and look incredibly pleased with herself about it.

Welp, I'm fucked. My memory recall is notoriously terrible.

does this mean that you don't exist? or that you aren't a person?

 

[violet_crown]

Discuss.

First of all, I think this is a very interesting topic, and thank you for sharing it. May have to check out SOMA as I've more or less watched every major horror release that's out right now. dont, but I digress.

I don't disagree with the idea that we are our memories. I think that identity is highly narrative, and the components of those stories should have some grounding in one's personal experience, or you could just be some pathetic, self-obsessed nut job who thinks they're John Lennon or Jesus or something.

What's cool to me is how that narrative is constructed. How people choose to understand their past, as well as the aspects of that history that they select to bring forward has as much to say about the person they are and what they value as the actual content that they choose. In that way, personal history is by no means a deterministic thing--much less an objective one.

And I think that this is the heart of existential choice, dealing meaningful with reality and choosing to derive further meaning from it by connecting it to some larger context. I think the most human experiences are the ones require both sides of that equation: the ability to contend with circumstances as they are, and then seeking to transcend them. I don't think you can really achieve one by shirking the work of the other.

 

[Bush]

does this mean that you don't exist? or that you aren't a person?

If memories are the thing that define a person, then I am not a well-defined person -- I barely have an identity or a concept of myself.

Shit, you got me thinking, then. Eschew identity; free yourself from the shackles!

 

[miss fortune]

If memories are the thing that define a person, then I am not a well-defined person -- I barely have an identity or a concept of myself.

Shit, you got me thinking, then. Eschew identity; free yourself from the shackles!

your self definition is a blob.....

and are you sure that the borg didn't just send you here to recruit us into joining? I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing if they took up the approach of using shills on the internet instead of just invading....

 

[Qlip]

I remember things... sometimes. Because of my nature ,a heavy perceiver being lost in a internal 'flow', I tend to rely less on memory, on images, on recall and more on deep patterns. How I find my car in a parking lot is a lot like remembering a 10 digit passcode, I don't think I could tell you what it was, but my fingers might know, let's find out. It's similar for me in most situations, the more important considerations are a vibe, and my initial instinctual response. My 'me' is less what I remember and more how I process the moment, what I drive for in the future.

It's fun doing thought experiments. A contra example to the op, imagine you were offered $1 million dollars to be tortured for two weeks with no physically damaging effects and your memories would be wiped afterwards. Would you take the job? Do you think you'd be a different person after that job or exactly the same except richer?

 

[Evee]

No. I'm not sure I could put either one as more meaningful. They're both meaningful in different ways.

Interesting. Thank you for being honest.

 

[Flybylikeahurricane]

memories simply only exist on records. Who we are now and beyond now is what truly matters. Gah! I'm starting to make you sound Si xD

 

[á´…eparted]

First of all, I think this is a very interesting topic, and thank you for sharing it. May have to check out SOMA as I've more or less watched every major horror release that's out right now. dont, but I digress.

I don't disagree with the idea that we are our memories. I think that identity is highly narrative, and the components of those stories should have some grounding in one's personal experience, or you could just be some pathetic, self-obsessed nut job who thinks they're John Lennon or Jesus or something.

What's cool to me is how that narrative is constructed. How people choose to understand their past, as well as the aspects of that history that they select to bring forward has as much to say about the person they are and what they value as the actual content that they choose. In that way, personal history is by no means a deterministic thing--much less an objective one.

And I think that this is the heart of existential choice, dealing meaningful with reality and choosing to derive further meaning from it by connecting it to some larger context. I think the most human experiences are the ones require both sides of that equation: the ability to contend with circumstances as they are, and then seeking to transcend them. I don't think you can really achieve one by shirking the work of the other.

I think I should revise that we aren't us without our memories. Or at least, we would be so different from who we currently are without them that it'd be difficult to say that it's the same person. Memory is a significant portion of our software. Without it, the way the hardware works is different. It's important. That can be illustrated by the vast majority of people would not be willing to have all of their memories and experiences wiped (some would though if it were predominately negative). However it's not everything because we can always move forward. You'll still need the ability to remember. Reading stories of individuals who have lost the ability to retain long term, short term memory, or the ability to form new memory is rather horrifying.

This thread is making it clear to me that how people relate (or not) to their memory varies quite considerably. Memory is tricky anyway, we can't recall and know everything at once. It often takes events to prompt remembering something, and in some cases that recalling can change how things play out. I guess it depends on how reliant a person is on their memory. I am hugely reliant on it.

If memories are the thing that define a person, then I am not a well-defined person -- I barely have an identity or a concept of myself.

Shit, you got me thinking, then. Eschew identity; free yourself from the shackles!

This might (maybe?) be explained by the fact that you're a 3. It's interesting that you say you have a poor memory, and thus don't deem it as valuable. I mean, if you are able to get along just fine with it only functioning enough to get you to where you need to be, I can easily see how it would matter less. For me, I have a very very strong memory. Long term in particular. It's by no means eidetic, but very strong and what I do remember is quite detailed much of the time. It's essential for navigating the world, and it brings a lot of richness to things. I don't live in the past, and I don't think anyone would ever call me as doing so. I'm quite future oriented for that matter. Still memory of all kinds gets used for all kinds of things, and my ability to recall and reflect on what I've gone through strongly helps form and define who I am as a person (I have a rather strong sense of identity. It's flexible and seems to change in detail, but strong).

 

[Kas]

even if you lose your memory, you are still aware that you are yourself (though the characteristics of that person may change in some ways). My aunt died of Pick's Disease about 10 years ago... it's a quickly moving dementia that tends to strike before the age of 65 and heavily effects the ability to speak and rationality of how one acts. (and it's why I'm kind of scared when I forget words that I'm looking for... it's hereditary). No matter how much she lost, she still had the same sense of humor. It was weird... she had to talk around words all of the time, had forgotten almost everything she had done in her life and she forgot how to walk, but she could still insult us and look incredibly pleased with herself about it.

Sorry to hear it, it must be hard when a person is middle age when gets dementia.

I was thinking about something similar, my grandmother suffers from dementia and she has changed in many ways. She has problem with recognizing me, offends people often... but sometimes she behaves as she used to ( she can be as bossy as she was before)and some traits are unchanged.

 

[Evee]

So I have been deemed as not knowing JSF because I have not read a JSF book. Wonder what he would think if he knew my degree was in electronics and I dropped out of only java class I took in college.

It's frustrating when someone preaches what's in books. As if books apply to real life. It provides concepts and examples. Real world is more complicated then what a book can provide.

What?

 

[Poki]

What?

Lol, stupid phone or fat finger. I clicked random thought thread...thanks for heads up. Deleted from here

 

[Bush]

This might (maybe?) be explained by the fact that you're a 3. It's interesting that you say you have a poor memory, and thus don't deem it as valuable. I mean, if you are able to get along just fine with it only functioning enough to get you to where you need to be, I can easily see how it would matter less.

Oh, what I mean is "My memory is absolute shit. If memories are the thing that define a person, then I am not a well-defined person. And if I'm not a well-defined person, I barely have an identity or a concept of myself. [sardonic smiley here]" -- not that I'm lamenting that I don't know myself or something.

So one experiences things (for a very loose definition of "experience"; for example, getting exposed to an idea as an experience, connecting ideas in thought as an experience) and shoves them into long-term memory. Do you necessarily have to remember (ergo have a memory of) an experience in order for it to affect who you are? For example, babies.

Experiences totally impact who we are, like meteorites impacting a landscape. Whether we can see or remember anything about that meteorite is immaterial; it's the resulting craters, deformities, and hills that stick around.

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I have been waiting for SOMA to come out for months now. The game is basically tailor made for me: atmospheric, insidious creep horror, sci-fi, philosophical, the sounds, deep story that gets you thinking, eerie as hell, basically everything. I'm probably about 1/2 way through it (taking my time), and it's everything I imagined and more. It's totally 100% me.

Note: if anyone wants to talk about soma please put it in spoilers. I'm trying very hard to avoid spoiling anything about the game.

THE CAKE IS A LIE! D:<

I'd play that game, sounds fucking sick. But I',m sensitive to horror. Thriller, I love. But BOO, AW YEA NIGGAH SLENDERMAN COMING OUT OF THE CORNER TO RAPE YOUR ASS.

no -__-