Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts variant stackings

onemoretime · Apr 18, 2011

INTPness said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Just curious. I'm sx and have no desire for anyone to take care of me or to improve my social status through associations. Pretty much no desire for those things whatsoever. I just simply enjoy getting to know people on an individual basis and being very understated about it in the process.

That's "pseudo-sx," which really is a manifestation of a perceived need for intimacy through the interaction of one's other instincts. You shouldn't identify with that; as an sx-dom, that should be an almost entirely alien way of looking at things to you.

INTPness · Apr 18, 2011

onemoretime said:
That's "pseudo-sx," which really is a manifestation of a perceived need for intimacy through the interaction of one's other instincts. You shouldn't identify with that; as an sx-dom, that should be an almost entirely alien way of looking at things to you.

I'm not sure I understand. And I want to. Are you saying that based on my description of myself, that you don't think I'm really sx? That I'm really either so/sp or sp/so?

Just about every description I've ever read, I identify with sx (and sp to a somewhat lesser degree), but almost never "so".

Where does this stuff come from anyways? "Pseudo-sx" and "manifestation of a perceived need for intimacy through the interaction of one's other instincts". What have you been reading and/or what did you put in your Wheaties?

Seriously though, I'm interested and would like more clarification of what you're getting at here.

Lady_X · Apr 18, 2011

it is interesting...let me try and get clear for a minute..

okay...when i'm out and about socially i crave an intense connection. i am often upset when the interactions feel flat....but i'm used to it because i think most people are not as interested in the the things i am...so i am content to be just light and socialize when in the mood...or...i don't feel like participating in less than ideal interaction so i can just do my own thing and not worry about it. i don't feel like i care about fitting in..i don't think i even care to try...that natural...mutual interest and connection is always just there or it isn't...i would prefer to have it but used to not....so?? that's why i feel like it's mood based but maybe the true motivation is a yearning for intimate connection.

what do you think?

Lady_X · Apr 18, 2011

this sorta fits...

Self-pres/Sexual

This subtype is similar to the self-pres/social, but their plans and pursuits are more passionate in nature. There is often more of an artistic flair. They can be moodier then the other subtype. Their focus is more on relationships, although commitment can also be a problem for this subtype. This subtype can even be known to use introspection as an escape. They can go inward with a seeming depth, but they will usually avoid the most troublesome areas, the areas and characteristics most painful to them.

This subtype of Seven is overall more focused than the self-pres/social. Their focus is on their intimates although certainly not solely on them as they usually have many other fires burning also. They generally have a great sense of humor, sharp quick minds and many interests. These qualities might be common to all subtypes of the Seven, but in the self-pres/sexual subtype, the infusion of enthusiasm comes through when they are engaged in their plans and fulfilling them

this one too kinda...

Sexual/Self-pres

The energy of the sexual instinct is, in some ways, at odds with the type Seven fixation. The Sevenâ€™s focus is future oriented and outward, away from the inner world, while the sexual variant is instinctual and dwells on the inner self as far as relationships and identity are concerned. This combination can make for a Seven that can be Four-like in many ways. They can have a flamboyant style and be very moody and intense. In relationships, there is often a push-pull quality. They are very attracted to the falling in love part. The buzz and high of that is very stimulating to them, almost drug-like for them. Their problems come when that buzz wears off. They want to recreate it again and again, but they also have a way of becoming attached and sometimes very dependent on their romantic partners. On the down side, they can be very clingy but donâ€™t want at the same time to lose their freedom. When unhealthy, they can be very selfish in these relationships, things become one-sided in a way that favors the interests of the Seven.

The sexual/self-pres Sevenâ€™s addictive behavior with relationships can extend to other areas, like music, and performing in general. The rock star image and lifestyle can be attractive to the sexual Seven. Many rock stars are sexual Sevens the buzz they experience from music can be similar to what they experience in relationships. Creativity can also function as a release of frustration from the boredom.

onemoretime · Apr 18, 2011

INTPness said:
I'm not sure I understand. And I want to. Are you saying that based on my description of myself, that you don't think I'm really sx? That I'm really either so/sp or sp/so?

Just the opposite. I absolutely think you're sx-dom.

I wrote that because the discussion reminded me of something. I struggled for a while with my own instinctual variants, because I didn't think I was sx at all. However, that changed when I was able to reevaluate my reasons for wanting certain things. The key was that I wanted material wealth because I wanted to share it with others, and establish a close connection that way. A motivation that came entirely from so/sx seemed sp oriented, but actually wasn't.

Just about every description I've ever read, I identify with sx (and sp to a somewhat lesser degree), but almost never "so".

Where does this stuff come from anyways? "Pseudo-sx" and "manifestation of a perceived need for intimacy through the interaction of one's other instincts". What have you been reading and/or what did you put in your Wheaties? Seriously though, I'm interested and would like more clarification of what you're getting at here.

I wish I had better support on the issue, but this one's based both on personal experience and my observation of others. It may not actually exist, but it seems like it's there to me.

INTPness · Apr 18, 2011

onemoretime said:
The key was that I wanted material wealth because I wanted to share it with others, and establish a close connection that way. A motivation that came entirely from so/sx seemed sp oriented, but actually wasn't.

Hmm, well I'll give you this, I can relate to this part. I thought you were saying earlier that the sx wanted to be taken care of materially. Which I don't. But, this above part, I do relate to somewhat. Interesting.

The_World_As_Will · Apr 18, 2011

Lady X, you seem like an so/sx to me, consider the following, and see if it rings a bell

soc/sx
This stacking lends itself to very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends.

Social/Sexual

This Seven has a lot of energy although not always a productive energy, as it often contains a frenetic quality. These Sevens usually have a great sense of humor and many comedians are soc/sexual sevens. The social and sexual instincts go hand in hand with the type Seven fixation. These Sevens want to keep things light. They have fast sharp minds that incorporate social awareness into their humor which they use to get by in their interactions with the world. On the down side, commitment is a big issue for this subtype. They cultivate many friendships and can thrive on winning people over, making them laugh and entertaining them but intimacy can feel threatening and constraining. For others, interacting with this subtype of Seven can feel draining, because they are â€œonâ€ so much of the time.

With the self-pres instinct least developed in the stacking, they tend to lose focus on their many plans. On the down side, their health and commitments can fall by the wayside in lieu of the buzz of the newest excitement.

In intimate relationships, this subtype is â€œthe charmer,â€ but they maintain their freedom from any strong ties to the one person. They may end up in marriages or long term commitments where they hook up with someone reliable and stable, someone with a much more low key personality. This gives them the stability they donâ€™t have themselves. This eventually leads to trouble if the soc/sexual seven doesnâ€™t realize that responsibility for his or her own life canâ€™t be transferred to another. Itâ€™s not that the soc/sexual goes into the relationship with this kind of pattern in mind. It is just easy for the dynamic to default to that dynamic.

Speed Gavroche · Apr 19, 2011

[youtube=D86IVsoiqTE]Types and Subtypes[/youtube]

My personal defintions: when you are of a dominant instinct, you are not concerned with your survival in the territory from time to time but want to maintain a constant flux wich assure your survival in the territory. Social people want to be constantly connected to a larger social sphere, sexual people want to maintain a constant flux wich allows them to answer "yes" to the question "am I connected with a significant one/something strong and intense", self-pres people want to recreate the conditions of the intrauterin life, where you are totally secured, calm, quiet, and where your safety is totally insured.

But that mean also that your last instinct, when too much neglected, can arise in an obssesive way sometimes. Social last neglect their connection to groups and consider them as independant, but sometimes they are involved in group dynamics in an immature and inconsistent way, Sexual last are usually not sexual or intense and independants, but can sometimes be obssesed with someone, for self-pres last don't see the maintain of comfort, calm and safety as something important, when unhealthy, routines and behaviors wich are used to maintain physical and mental safety don't come naturally and they hardly care about themself, but they can also care about this in an irrational way, to punish them with diet and routines, to be totally involved in their cure and withdrawn totally from the world, but still be inneficient in their maintaining of physical and mental safety.

Goosebump · Apr 19, 2011

skylights said:
i like being 1-on-1 with people i really like. i don't like group interactions as much in that case. or i like to be part of a couple within a group. my favorite scenario is being 1-on-1 within a group, like going to a party with a boyfriend or being in a group with a best friend. i do generally love group interaction but the "crowd" i "play to" is my preferred one person.

on the other hand i like group interactions better when i don't like the people as much. then can choose to interact more with the people i like a lot and i can get small doses of the people i like well enough to call friends but who tend to annoy me sometimes.

i've tended to think of myself as sx-so, but i don't think i'm particularly "intense" under most circumstances.

and i really understand what you mean lady x, they definitely seem like "moods" to me, too.

Whoa. I relate so much to this. The whole being in a small group within the larger group thing. For the longest time, I thought I have to be either sx/sp or sp/sx but neither seem to resonate perfectly. From what I read, so-last don't seem to care very much about belonging in a group. I think I have always cared about belonging, even though I try to talk myself out of caring, telling myself what others think of me don't matter. However, it stays a nagging concern. When I get the feeling that other people appreciate my contribution to the group, it feels great. At the same time, I care very much about being to connect beyond the surface level. If I hang out with someone for quite a while and I feel like we can't move beyond the superficial surface, I feel very bothered, like the whole relationship is strained and unnatural. I wouldn't say my SP is bad though. I do care about my health and well-being, though I can't say I've been doing a successful job at taking care of my body. As of now, I'm considering so/sx.

I relate to the bolded parts for so/sx
This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends. This type's motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in - the "best friend."

However, I also relate to sx/sp
sx/sp
This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.
Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

Uggh I don't even know anymore. :doh:

Speed Gavroche · Apr 19, 2011

Speed Gavroche · Apr 19, 2011

Lady X: 7w6 Sx/So
Skylight: 6w7 Sx/So

Lady_X · Apr 19, 2011

thanks so much for the links. the video was helpful..i think.

i am more concerned about the relationship between myself, my family and closest friends. maybe this means i am sx dom...i believe secondly i am concerned about my own well being...i think i care the least about where i fit in to a group...or making connections..

but...i only slightly relate to that sx/sp description up there.. :/

onemoretime · Apr 19, 2011

Lady X said:
it is interesting...let me try and get clear for a minute..

okay...when i'm out and about socially i crave an intense connection. i am often upset when the interactions feel flat....but i'm used to it because i think most people are not as interested in the the things i am...so i am content to be just light and socialize when in the mood...or...i don't feel like participating in less than ideal interaction so i can just do my own thing and not worry about it. i don't feel like i care about fitting in..i don't think i even care to try...that natural...mutual interest and connection is always just there or it isn't...i would prefer to have it but used to not....so?? that's why i feel like it's mood based but maybe the true motivation is a yearning for intimate connection.

what do you think?

Lady X said:
thanks so much for the links. the video was helpful..i think.

i am more concerned about the relationship between myself, my family and closest friends. maybe this means i am sx dom...i believe secondly i am concerned about my own well being...i think i care the least about where i fit in to a group...or making connections..

but...i only slightly relate to that sx/sp description up there.. :/

I'll say this, too - sometimes, we deny that we have tendencies toward an instinctual variant, because it manifests through making us vulnerable in that area.

Lady_X · Apr 19, 2011

so you think perhaps i'm so dom but i get irritated when i don't get the sort of interaction i'd like so i just take the attitude of well i don't care what you all think anyway? like that...??
i really don't think that's it...i thought i was sx/so but i'm not some super intense person with high energy...7's already seem more energetic than i am so i can't imagine myself being one of the super energetic/intense subtypes...i think something in there needs to balance that expression to make sense.

skylights · Apr 19, 2011

^ lady x i would almost think sx/so would have a more... compact? energy than so? like sx's is more reserved in general because it's saved for their "special" people and tight bonds more than utilized with everyone? whereas so would have a more outgoing, scattered energy?

Goosebump said:
Whoa. I relate so much to this. The whole being in a small group within the larger group thing. [...] When I get the feeling that other people appreciate my contribution to the group, it feels great. At the same time, I care very much about being to connect beyond the surface level. If I hang out with someone for quite a while and I feel like we can't move beyond the superficial surface, I feel very bothered, like the whole relationship is strained and unnatural.

myself as well. i love being a part of a group, but if the choice is between being part of a less-deeply-connected group or having a deep relationship, it's gonna be the deep 1-on-1 every time.

i've read before about 9 "merging", and i think that's how i feel about groups. i like to "become" the group - to have it become a part of my identity. it's not so much about the exact people as it is about the meaning of the group, though i feel most grounded when i am in deeper relationships with one or more members of a group. that way is easiest for me... i don't want to always have to be responsible... but i like being connected.

so/sx
This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends. This type's motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in - the "best friend."

oh wow, i know someone who is exactly like this. like, down to a T. she's very friendly but doesn't really mesh with groups much - it's like she either is a focal point or an outsider, no middle ground - and she's a really close friend when you're with her but she pretty much drops off the face of the planet once you're not in her 20-mile radius. she definitely has political leanings but they don't play a huge role in her life. she's veryy into pop culture, celebrities, fashions, etc, even though she's not really competitive or anything about it.

onemoretime · Apr 19, 2011

Lady X said:
so you think perhaps i'm so dom but i get irritated when i don't get the sort of interaction i'd like so i just take the attitude of well i don't care what you all think anyway? like that...??
i really don't think that's it...i thought i was sx/so but i'm not some super intense person with high energy...7's already seem more energetic than i am so i can't imagine myself being one of the super energetic/intense subtypes...i think something in there needs to balance that expression to make sense.

Nah, I definitely think you're sx dom. However, I do think you're sx/so. The intensity isn't pervasive, but when you're within your special groups, it ramps up to a particularly high level. Is that your experience?

Speed Gavroche · Apr 19, 2011

skylights;1544907? energ said:
^ i like being 1-on-1 with people i really like. i don't like group interactions as much in that case. or i like to be part of a couple within a group. my favorite scenario is being 1-on-1 within a group, like going to a party with a boyfriend or being in a group with a best friend. i do generally love group interaction but the "crowd" i "play to" is my preferred one person.

on the other hand i like group interactions better when i don't like the people as much. then can choose to interact more with the people i like a lot and i can get small doses of the people i like well enough to call friends but who tend to annoy me sometimes.

i've tended to think of myself as sx-so, but i don't think i'm particularly "intense" under most circumstances.

and i really understand what you mean lady x, they definitely seem like "moods" to me, too.

myself as well. i love being a part of a group, but if the choice is between being part of a less-deeply-connected group or having a deep relationship, it's gonna be the deep 1-on-1 every time.

i've read before about 9 "merging", and i think that's how i feel about groups. i like to "become" the group - to have it become a part of my identity. it's not so much about the exact people as it is about the meaning of the group, though i feel most grounded when i am in deeper relationships with one or more members of a group. that way is easiest for me... i don't want to always have to be responsible... but i like being connected. .

I relate totally to that Sky, your ARE Sx/So, trust me. :newwink:

Lady_X · Apr 19, 2011

onemoretime said:
Nah, I definitely think you're sx dom. However, I do think you're sx/so. The intensity isn't pervasive, but when you're within your special groups, it ramps up to a particularly high level. Is that your experience?

i don't feel like it ramps up no...god..it's just really all very confusing. i do always like to have a best friend person with me...(that could be a friend, a sister, my mom or boyfriend) but i typically like groups a lot...ughh...idk...i'll just stick with sx/so i guess...was just frustrated because the information out there seems very contradictory and i don't relate a lot to the descriptions..

thanks for everyones help tho..

onemoretime · Apr 19, 2011

Lady X said:
i don't feel like it ramps up no...god..it's just really all very confusing. i do always like to have a best friend person with me...(that could be a friend, a sister, my mom or boyfriend) but i typically like groups a lot...ughh...idk...i'll just stick with sx/so i guess...was just frustrated because the information out there seems very contradictory and i don't relate a lot to the descriptions..

thanks for everyones help tho..

Descriptions suck. Just think about what you're drawn to.

The_World_As_Will · Apr 19, 2011

Speed Gavroche said:
I relate totally to that Sky, your ARE Sx/So, trust me.

I would agree with Speed, I can relate to you sky, as another sx/so, what you say definitely rings true for me as well.

Lady X said:
i don't feel like it ramps up no...god..it's just really all very confusing. i do always like to have a best friend person with me...(that could be a friend, a sister, my mom or boyfriend) but i typically like groups a lot...ughh...idk...i'll just stick with sx/so i guess...was just frustrated because the information out there seems very contradictory and i don't relate a lot to the descriptions..

thanks for everyones help tho..

Firstly, as I stated earlier, I think you are an so/sx, (my girlfriend is one and I notice the same tendencies), but I think you are forgetting the influence of the sx stacking as a supporting variant, it will inhibit if you will, the need to be in a group, sure being in a group would be nice, and it would be what you instinctively do first, but you are doing this to feel connected, if only to a singular individual or with a close group of people, sort of like you jump feet first into the world to find the person of your dreams, the world is an open place, full of epxeriences and people, and just maybe you will find 'the one'. That is what i've noticed dating an so/sx (she's a 4w3 INFP, but the variants will manifest slightly the same). Personally the same principle is true for myself as an sx/so but in reverse. I want to find this special person, 'the one', and in finding this, it allows me to to into the world and experience new things, to be lively, to really 'connect' with everyone and sort of take life head on, but this can only happen when I have 'the one' that helps sort of bring me to life I suppose, and well that's the basic theme. Yes you are going to relate to sx/so, the two types are similar, but don't discount the influence of the supporting variant, it plays a huge role.

Also, I've noticed that sx/so and so/sx types tend to really get along well, as we both share SP-last, and have somewhat similar motives for behaviour, You should see if you relate to sx/so types, OR if you believe you are an sx/so, see if you relate to so/sx types. I notice there is an immediate 'click' there, but it also depends on their type and the individual (level of health, etc)
Just my take :whistling:

Hope i've helped.

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