[MBTI General] Typical INFP - INTJ conversation

[wired]

This thread is funny.


INFP me: [Insert analysis on behavior]
INTJ: Isn't that going a bit too far with the assumptions?
INFP me: Yes, probably, but I didn't mean that... [Insert explanation] (Thoughts: I knew my thoughts were going to be judged. I am a horrible person for judging people. Next time I am going to keep my mouth shut... INTJ is right, I know too little about this - Investigate!]

---

INFP me: [Insert a comment regarding my values]
INTJ: [Insert a joke]
INFP me: *laughs* (Thoughts: Yes, it was funny. INTJ knows me.)

---

INFP me: I like you.
INTJ: ...

---

INTJ: I cried.
INFP me: Aww. I know.

---

INFP me: [Insert random Ne stuff]
INTJ: ? I can't concentrate.
INFP me: ...

---

INFP me: I really like you.
INTJ: I like discussing with you.

---

INFP me + INTJ: [Insert NiFi stuff]

---

INFP me: [Insert personal stuff]
INTJ: [Insert Te stuff]
INFP me: *confusion* [Insert hesitant Te stuff]
INFP me: I like you.
INTJ: I like you, too.

---

INFP me: (Thoughts: That person is nice and smart.)
INTJ: I've got to get to work.
INFP me: Me too.
INTJ: See you!
INFP me: See you!

 

[Sabre]

This thread is funny.


INFP me: [Insert analysis on behavior]
INTJ: Isn't that going a bit too far with the assumptions?
INFP me: Yes, probably, but I didn't mean that... [Insert explanation] (Thoughts: I knew my thoughts were going to be judged. I am a horrible person for judging people. Next time I am going to keep my mouth shut... INTJ is right, I know too little about this - Investigate!]

---

INFP me: [Insert a comment regarding my values]
INTJ: [Insert a joke]
INFP me: *laughs* (Thoughts: Yes, it was funny. INTJ knows me.)

---

INFP me: I like you.
INTJ: ...

---

INTJ: I cried.
INFP me: Aww. I know.

---

INFP me: [Insert random Ne stuff]
INTJ: ? I can't concentrate.
INFP me: ...

---

INFP me: I really like you.
INTJ: I like discussing with you.

---

INFP me + INTJ: [Insert NiFi stuff]

---

INFP me: [Insert personal stuff]
INTJ: [Insert Te stuff]
INFP me: *confusion* [Insert hesitant Te stuff]
INFP me: I like you.
INTJ: I like you, too.

---

INFP me: (Thoughts: That person is nice and smart.)
INTJ: I've got to get to work.
INFP me: Me too.
INTJ: See you!
INFP me: See you!

INFP me: [Insert personal stuff]
INTJ me: [Insert Te stuff]
INFP: *confusion* -> *rage*
INFP: No, stop, annoying me already, please just leave okay?.
INTJ me: What did I do to you? Please tell me.
INFP: I said no, we can talk about this tomorrow I don't want to talk to you any more. *leaves*


Simple as that.

For my INTJ pal here, I just don't blacklist because I'm trying to improve myself to be able to deal with every kind of people, imagine, myself:

Intuitive aptitude
Empathy

good lord.. so much potential I would have..

Anyway don't see it as a selfish thing, I actually want to understand people since I have to deal with them.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

For my INTJ pal here, I just don't blacklist because I'm trying to improve myself to be able to deal with every kind of people, imagine, myself:

Intuitive aptitude
Empathy

good lord.. so much potential I would have..

Anyway don't see it as a selfish thing, I actually want to understand people since I have to deal with them.

Have fun with that.

 

[William K]

INFP me: [Insert personal stuff]
INTJ me: [Insert Te stuff]
INFP: *confusion* -> *rage*
INFP: No, stop, annoying me already, please just leave okay?.
INTJ me: What did I do to you? Please tell me.
INFP: I said no, we can talk about this tomorrow I don't want to talk to you any more. *leaves*


Simple as that.

For my INTJ pal here, I just don't blacklist because I'm trying to improve myself to be able to deal with every kind of people, imagine, myself:

Intuitive aptitude
Empathy

good lord.. so much potential I would have..

Anyway don't see it as a selfish thing, I actually want to understand people since I have to deal with them.

Sounds like the INFP is pretty stressed out, and it might have little to do with you. She might just be having a bad patch of people questioning her motives. I'm glad to hear that you are trying to communicate instead of just dismissing her.

Can't speak for other INFPs, but I can have trouble explaining my motivations to others. Probably had too many experiences where I'm all bouncy and excited about something and I explain it to a friend and they look at me like I'm from another planet

Anyway, as the important decisions I make are tied to my values; explaining how I come to a decision is a very personal thing to me. It feels like I'm exposing myself since my values reflect who I am inside. Only my close family and friends get to see this.

Ok, now I'm rambling... Back to the question of improving INTJ-INFP communications. Find out where the line between being curious and being pushy is in regards to this specific INFP. When you see the defensive mechanism going into place, pull back a bit and let her think about it for a while.

 

[Sabre]

Sounds like the INFP is pretty stressed out, and it might have little to do with you. She might just be having a bad patch of people questioning her motives. I'm glad to hear that you are trying to communicate instead of just dismissing her.

Can't speak for other INFPs, but I can have trouble explaining my motivations to others. Probably had too many experiences where I'm all bouncy and excited about something and I explain it to a friend and they look at me like I'm from another planet

Anyway, as the important decisions I make are tied to my values; explaining how I come to a decision is a very personal thing to me. It feels like I'm exposing myself since my values reflect who I am inside. Only my close family and friends get to see this.

Ok, now I'm rambling... Back to the question of improving INTJ-INFP communications. Find out where the line between being curious and being pushy is in regards to this specific INFP. When you see the defensive mechanism going into place, pull back a bit and let her think about it for a while.

Ill try that out then.

And MagnificentMind, not every INTJ is the same and actually don't have fun doing it just I think I have to, maybe one day I'll really snap and go back to my "people are useless" way to do things.

 

[Coriolis]

Even "why?" can sound trivializing depending on how you say it... delivery is so important-
If you want me to open up because you are genuinely curious:
INTJ : I believe in A
INFP : I believe in B
INTJ : Oh, I've heard a bit about B, but I chose A because of this. What caused you to decide on B?

This is so much more verbose, and contains no more information other than that INTJ has heard of B, which may not always be the case. A simple "why?" seems more concise and straightforward, but I get the impression from this thread that INFPs do not prefer it. How do the extra words help? Do they really convey additional meaning, or is it simply considered somehow gentler to use more words to say the same thing? (I have been told in some foreign language classes that using more words to ask a question is more polite.)

 

[stringstheory]

This is so much more verbose, and contains no more information other than that INTJ has heard of B, which may not always be the case. A simple "why?" seems more concise and straightforward, but I get the impression from this thread that INFPs do not prefer it. How do the extra words help? Do they really convey additional meaning, or is it simply considered somehow gentler to use more words to say the same thing? (I have been told in some foreign language classes that using more words to ask a question is more polite.)

Well to me, a simple blunt "why?" sounds like an interrogation. When more words are used to ask me for more information, it SOUNDS, to me, like the other person is more engaged in what i've been talking about and therefore more interested. It may not be true, but when someone is blunt like that while i'm sorta absorbed in deep conversation, it indicates a sort of disinterest. even if I know it's probably just the preferred style of communication, it can be hard to shake off that feeling since I tend to communicate interest by what I perceive as engaging more...so bluntness can sometimes be a little confusing on my end. I can see how someone more sensitive to that could maybe see that as a personal attack of sorts, even if it's really not.

I and probably other INFPs are looking to have a meaningful discussion. I see what you're saying, but for someone who is more sensitive to this it sounds a lot more like they're being interrogated and less like they are having a friendly discussion sometimes. it's not so much that you're SAYING more, but it sure feels like you are COMMUNICATING more, if that makes sense.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Does a small pause then a 'why' make up for less words?

 

[stringstheory]

Does a small pause then a 'why' make up for less words?

Yeah, it would make it easier for me to think that there is interest, but playing your hypothetical in my head I might still be inclined to think that there's some disconnect. there's a couple factors...some of it also depends on how engaged i perceived you to be before you ask "why". If not, then i might still be unsure. also, how well do i know you? i find i get this reaction more with new friends/acquaintances rather than with people i know REALLY well. Bluntness isn't too natural for me. honestly, what i'm really "looking" for is "oh, huh, because i think *insert your opinion*, so why?". that is what indicates interest to me: dialogue...or my perception of dialogue.

it's hard to explain well...I can sometimes be a little socially awkward though, so really it's me projecting. i see it as over-analyzing and try to ignore that feeling personally, but others might actually have a strong negative reaction to that and feel it as a personal attack. i dunno.
I just feel that using more words more helps me communicate more concisely, with you guys it seems like it's generally the opposite.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I just feel that using more words more helps me communicate more concisely

Good strategy for writing essays too. I understand what you are saying.

 

[Talisyn]

Great explanation stringstheory. Why? by itself can also seem challenging... and if you want my deepest views I have to feel like I won't be judged, that you are not challenging my beliefs, and that you are really interested... and yeah the extra words really do help convince me of that...

 

[OrangeAppled]

This is so much more verbose, and contains no more information other than that INTJ has heard of B, which may not always be the case. A simple "why?" seems more concise and straightforward, but I get the impression from this thread that INFPs do not prefer it. How do the extra words help? Do they really convey additional meaning, or is it simply considered somehow gentler to use more words to say the same thing? (I have been told in some foreign language classes that using more words to ask a question is more polite.)

The terse "why" comes off as hostile & demanding. I don't owe anyone an explanation. If choose to deem them worthy to reveal to them my beliefs & values & the things I guard closely, then they better show they'll appreciate it. Otherwise, they are not worth my time, effort & energy.

The longer phrasing has many implications. First of all, repeating back to them their view as you've grasped it will show you actually understood what the INFP is communicating. At this point, the conversation may get stuck going back & forth a bit as much of the time the person failed to grasp what I even meant to begin with. It's common for INFPs to found themselves misunderstood - it can be hard to articulate thoughts which are rather abstract and in the form of feeling.

Also, explaining your belief a bit sets the tone - it's sharing and not arguing. Also, your motivations become clearer, and that will put the INFP more at ease. And yes, these tiny nuances mean a lot, as nuance of feeling is something we're acutely aware of.

More about "discussing" something with an INFP where you both disagree:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-blogs/30112-my-guide-infps-seymour-made-me-do-3.html#post1186822

On a side note, my conversations with INTJs have gone like this:

INTJ: Me, me, me, me, me, me, me
INFP: Oh, that's interesting
INTJ: Me, me, me, me, me, me....and you must think XYZ based on the tiny amount of info I know about you
INFP: Actually, no, I don't feel that way
INTJ: Huh.....me, me, me, me, me .....

The soliloquies on anime get old fast... However, I have never argued with an INTJ...that tends to happen more with INTPs, but I also find them more interesting.

 

[Flutterby]

I'm an INFP and I used to know this person who would constantly disagree with just about everything that I said. It really really annoyed me because I felt like I had to defend myself all the time which was draining and offensive. He actually told me he really liked talking to me though because I had such different opinions and he learnt stuff or something. In any case, I was a lot younger and not able to fully communicate how I was feeling, so my anger and frustration just built and built until one day he annoyed me and I just cut him out of my life completely.

Reading this thread made me wonder if he could be an INTJ, but I feel a bit bad saying that because it was probably more his lack of social skills and my bad communication than our types. In any case, an example of one of our conversations went something like:

Me: I don't like microwaved food. I don't understand it and I don't trust microwaves.
Him: *gives me a scientific explanation of how microwaves work and then tells me how to cook vegies in a microwave*

Of course, I felt extremely annoyed, like he was trying to tell me what to do and wasn't respecting my opinion. Also, if I couldn't give some kind scientific explanation for what I believed in or what I was doing he would try to say it was wrong or bad because of *insert factual sort of related statement here.*

Eg. Him: Milk is bad for cats. Me: This is special pet milk and my cat does not drink water.

He accepted that instantly, but when I went to get her some meat from the fridge he instantly told me 'cold meat is bad for cats.'
I could have told him that if I could eat things from the fridge my cat probably could too, but I was actually quite offended at this point, because it was like he was attacking my way of doing things or thinking I was stupid or something.

Also, don't know if this an INFP thing, but to this day I find it very very difficult to tell someone when I am offended. I just expect people to be polite, and if they aren't I get offended and stop talking to them.

 

[Weber]

The terse "why" comes off as hostile & demanding. I don't owe anyone an explanation. If choose to deem them worthy to reveal to them my beliefs & values & the things I guard closely, then they better show they'll appreciate it. Otherwise, they are not worth my time, effort & energy.

Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.

Also, an INTJ incessantly talking about themselves? Seems you haven't actually met any real ones. No surprise, considering the vast amount of mistypes.

 

[William K]

Good strategy for writing essays too. I understand what you are saying.

Bear in mind that Ne is the main way that INFPs get data. The more general your words are, the more Ne needs to extrapolate to fill in the blanks. In addition to the tone of voice, it will look for all the non-verbal cues such as body language. If you don't want an INFP to misunderstand you, giving more specific info besides saying "Why?" with a frown or wrinkled forehead would help a lot

 

[stringstheory]

Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.

I'm a little confused as to what this has to do with why bluntness is so offputting to INFPs..."why" isn't offputting because we have unfounded beliefs, it's offputting because not feeling like our opinions aren't valid (not correct, valid) takes the enjoyment out of sharing ideas with others. If you sound like you're interrogating it does not get that point across really well to INFPs.

If you speak to me in a manner that makes me think that you are being hostile/disinterested, i will probably end the conversation even though i could reply. I put a lot of thought and analysis into my opinions, thank you, i'm not interested in investing my energy into translating the thoughts in my head with someone who doesn't appear to be interested in engaging in constructive dialogue. I make a lot of effort into exploring others' ideas and seeing the validity in them, even if i don't agree so I expect the same courtesy in return.

Feel free to disagree with me and debate civilly, that's fine! I'm up for it and I enjoy it, but yes only if you can indicate that you "appreciate" what i have to say as valid. i think everyones beliefs and ideas are valid individual level because we all have different life experiences that lead us to different conclusions. That doesn't mean they're right and that you have to agree, but if i interpret hostility in your questioning it means i don't feel we have that common understanding. If this is the case don't be surprised when I pull the plug on sharing my ideas. A blunt "why" is only part of this equation, see the post above for some other parts.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.

it's offputting because not feeling like our opinions aren't valid (not correct, valid) takes the enjoyment out of sharing ideas with others. If you sound like you're interrogating it does not get that point across really well to INFPs.

Pretty much, just because you are deciding to tell others doesn't mean that the idea is worth wanting to show interest in (to that person)... so either analyze your idea before speaking it, or don't talk. Is what he is saying. The unfounded idea is what causes the uninterested why.

 

[stringstheory]

This doesn't appear to be the case with Sabre initial predicament though....seems to me he wants to hear the idea. That's the whole point of what I was saying: we won't share with people we don't think fit our definition of being interested. Or at least I don't. Again, a blunt "why" is only part of the equation.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I think Weber's comment was not to be taken further than his reply to OrangeAppled.

 

[stringstheory]

Fair enough^^