Trump vs. Biden

[anticlimatic]

It’ll be interesting to see what transpires. Liberals are talking about how Texas is a real possibility for Biden, and you folks are talking about a major Trump victory. Two different worlds...

Two different worldviews. We have the optimistic right- eagerly celebrating any and all progress on Covid and more than willing to take their chances with the 99% survivability rate to get back to the pursuit of life and meaning...and we have the pessimistic left- focused only on death counts, statistical outliers, economic lockdowns, and how well their community is following petty measures, content to just socially isolate and stew forever for the sake of mitigating a nearly non-existent risk. We have the freedom of speech, freedom of thought right- able to abide all kinds of language, tolerance-based religions, forms of expression, different opinions/thoughts/perspectives...and we have the Borg left, interested primarily in perfecting the "one" perspective, the "right" perspective, the "best" perspective (throw all else in the fire). Why try other things from the menu when you already know what the best item is? Resistance to the Veal Marsala is futile. I feel like the right's approach, at least in today's climate, is the one that better represents good mental health- while the left's approach just feels as toxic as it could possibly be. That's why it feels like Trump should win this. What it means if Biden wins, I think, is that we finally have more toxic people than healthy people in this country, which is quite a sad turn. Even Obama's victory was predicated on hope, meaning, and optimism.

 

[Jaguar]

You and your "fact" checkers.

The issue is The Gateway Pundit. It's been posting hoaxes, false claims, and conspiracy theories for over a decade.

Liberals are talking about how Texas is a real possibility for Biden

His oil industry comments during the debate probably made Texas a lot more difficult.

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Maou]

I was watching some podcast featuring a Texan, and they're terrified of Californians running to Texas to escape the garbage government policies, and then just continuing to vote for the same garbage when they get there. Same thing is happening in my neck of the woods- kind of a rural red-based area for the most part, but right now we are drowning in rich down-state work-from-home-tech-industry leftists who bought up all the property to get away from the stricter lockdowns in the Detroit and Grand Rapids area. All of them have Biden signs up. I don't understand people. Why vote for the same idiots that want to perpetuate a situation that made you you literally pack up and move your entire home and family from?

Just like with Communism/Socialism they never learn from their mistakes. They keep trying the same shit over and over again, thinking "Maybe this time will work", as they walk on the ashes of millions throughout history. You know what the definition of insanity is.

 

[Maou]

<snippped ignorant shit>

Maybe one day you will learn to have a conversation like a normal person. Why bother quoting me, then immediately shitting on my replies? You either must really like me, or you are a toxic troll.

 

[Jaguar]

Maybe one day you will learn to have a conversation like a normal person.

When I find a normal person, I will do that.

 

[Maou]

When I find a normal person, I will do that.

What is a "Normal person" to you? Someone who thinks exactly like you? Normal doesn't exist. There is not a single person on this planet, who doesn't have a quirk or something you disagree with.

 

[Jaguar]

What is a "Normal person" to you?

Not you, dear. Move on.

 

[Maou]

Not you, dear. Move on.

Hey man, you are the one continuing to quote me. If you wanted to move on, you won't reply. Telling an E4 they are not normal is like, the nicest thing you've ever done.

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is pretty decent short explanation of:


Why the world is watching what is going on in the the US at this point ?
How the world got to this point ?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I was watching some podcast featuring a Texan, and they're terrified of Californians running to Texas to escape the garbage government policies, and then just continuing to vote for the same garbage when they get there. Same thing is happening in my neck of the woods- kind of a rural red-based area for the most part, but right now we are drowning in rich down-state work-from-home-tech-industry leftists who bought up all the property to get away from the stricter lockdowns in the Detroit and Grand Rapids area.

Why do you hate people for being successful? Maybe they got to that point by working hard. Suddenly capitalism and hard work is bad if the people who do well with it don't vote the same way you do?


You pretty much described me, lol. (well, I don't think I have property-buying money at the moment.. but I'm probably on that trajectory) I was poor though my twenties and took the personal responsibility to take a different path. I suppose that's problematic all of a sudden because I don't worship the God Emperor.

I can't believe you don't want people to do well and just want folks to fail because you envy those who are better off than you. I'm especially baffled at why it's wrong in a capitalist economy for people who can afford to do so the buy property upstate.

 

[ceecee]

Why do you hate people for being successful? Maybe they got to that point by working hard. Suddenly capitalism and hard work is bad if the people who do well with it don't vote the same way you do?

Because that's what they do - these are hateful fearful selfish people. He was overjoyed these downstaters were coming to the area in the spring because it means $$ for him. Now he hates them because they aren't him. lol @ the leftist quip, very likely they're garden variety libs.

The part that makes me laugh is that they are all for a CA exodus. To escape that shithole state and blabla blagblahhhhh whatever right wing verbal diarrhea their media tells them to say.

But those people leave CA and move to Phoenix or Albuquerque or San Antonio or Houston. And guess what? They bring their liberal views and politics with them. Phoenix area is the largest growing metro area in the US. It's also why that state will likely turn blue. Same for New Mexico and Texas is on the brink. This was unthinkable even 5 years ago. ANd NYC, don't even get me started. Sure, they can leave NYC. And move to Iowa City or Columbus or Indianapolis. I laugh just thinking about it. So keep running those stories, keep sharing them on FB, retweeting and all that. You're helping, just not in the way you intended.

So the moral of the story is - don't start none, won't be none. This year may have the largest electorate in well over a century. That's how unpopular and how unsupported conservative/right/GOP policies are and how they truly can't make headway without cheating, voter suppression and doing all they can to kill any kind of progress or wealth distribution for anyone but the wealthy. The right accomplishes this on the backs of working people, the elderly, children, POC, immigrants, the poor, the weak and vulnerable. And the right relishes inflicting this kind of harm. Their base sees it as "strength" and "masculinity".

But I credit people when credit is due - Donald Trump and the Republicans and all the hateful right wing twats - you all did more than any Dem party outreach ever could. Excellent job.

 

[anticlimatic]

Why do you hate people for being successful? Maybe they got to that point by working hard. Suddenly capitalism and hard work is bad if the people who do well with it don't vote the same way you do? You pretty much described me, lol. (well, I don't think I have property-buying money at the moment.. but I'm probably on that trajectory) I was poor though my twenties and took the personal responsibility to take a different path. I suppose that's problematic all of a sudden because I don't worship the God Emperor. I can't believe you don't want people to do well and just want folks to fail because you envy those who are better off than you. I'm especially baffled at why it's wrong in a capitalist economy for people who can afford to do so the buy property upstate.

I love to see successful people and a thriving economy. What I don't love is anyone, successful or otherwise, voting for policies that prevent others from being successful through excessive taxation and regulation. I also resent hypocritical people, like the Puritans, who flee from one area for a particular reason (Religious tyranny in their case), then take over and impose the same thing they were running from on the culture they just invaded. It's disgusting on multiple levels.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I love to see successful people and a thriving economy. What I don't love is anyone, successful or otherwise, voting for policies that prevent others from being successful through excessive taxation and regulation. I also resent hypocritical people, like the Puritans, who flee from one area for a particular reason (Religious tyranny in their case), then take over and impose the same thing they were running from on the culture they just invaded. It's disgusting on multiple levels.

Well, hey, I just recognize that not everyone has parents they can crash with for a few years so they can build up enough unpaid experience to be hireable.

I'd say of the list of reasons I was poor in my twenties, excessive taxation has very little to do with it.

I also lived in a Trump state in my 20s, for what that's worth. I actually became well off in Illinois. I think the fact that the unemployment in Illinois is better than Pennsylvania really helped. I had to jump through less hoops to get it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

2020 General Election Early Vote Statistics

Texas is already at 76.4% of 2016.
The whole country is at 40.6% on average.



To be honest everywhere where early vote turnout is above 70% the incumbent on any level could be in trouble. Since that indicates large turnout, which generally favors team blue.

 

[FemMecha]

The reason I don't participate in Trump jokes is not out of a feeling of protection from bullying. It can downplay the seriousness of this situation. It can make people feel it's just a ego game and social competition of political sporting teams. It's too serious a situation to downplay it.

 

[Jonny]

I wonder if that is entirely due to the fact most Californians have exodused to Texas. I personally think that Californians are the WORST people in terms of policy preference. They export California's problems to other states, once their own state has become fucked up.

Well, I’m from California. I have some childhood friends who moved to Texas and are really excited about voting in this election because their vote might actually impact the presidential election for once in their lives. I was just granted permanent remote work status, and am also thinking of moving to another state. Not because I think California is terrible or anything, but I’ve lived here all my life and housing is pretty costly now due to the sky high demand, so I can get more bang for my buck elsewhere. Many techies have similarly been granted permanent remote work, and I wonder how many will choose to move around the country, brining their wealth and politics with them.

It would be kind of amusing if all of us remote liberal folk strategically moved around the country to provide an extreme electoral college advantage to Democrats. Maybe we could also start a charity to buy guns for every minority in the country as well. Nothing would please me more than fully armed antifa/BLM and California politics spread far and wide. lol

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The reason I don't participate in Trump jokes is not out of a feeling of protection from bullying. It can downplay the seriousness of this situation. It can make people feel it's just a ego game and social competition of political sporting teams. It's too serious a situation to downplay it.

I agree. I've posted this point a couple times before: this thread, and really the whole forum, is stuck in co-mingling echo chamber mode. None of the Trumpublicans who frequent the forum know how to engage in dialogue enough to give responses that help understanding. Instead the responses either give me the impression they simply use the forum to build the skill of railroading through conversation in a more confident way (kind of like how people might go through a kind of training before they stand witness in court, so that there are no curveballs the other side can throw that'll rattle them, or I guess like exposure therapy), or they hit this wall and instead of hearing any well thought out argument presented to them they respond with slimy, manipulative ad hominems and/or passive-aggressive baiting to deflect from the argument they aren't capable of responding to. Essentially, trying to 'win' dialogue through manipulative power plays rather than presenting an argument that wins by merit of itself. All feedback that Trumpublicans have been given (that I've seen) in regard to these discourse styles gets dismissed and treated as if the ones issuing the feedback are the ones dispatching the problematic behavior (most likely because if a person isn't aware of how to engage in dialogue - "thesis + antithesis = synthesis", and instead see dialogue as a bunch of power plays like "synthesis = everyone sees MY thesis is right, because I figured out how to present it effectively enough" - then they can neither offer or recognize antithesis, and they project their own power plays to 'win' being right instead). I always give people a chance, but when they systematically demonstrate they aren't capable of actual dialogue then I start ignoring. Life is too short. Anyway, because the threads in this forum never get past co-mingling echo chambers, I've taken to using them simply to vent to the choir. Venting serves the purpose of getting rid of some of the emotional charge. It's not great in the sense that I tend to forget there's opposition here who reads it, I'm not diplomatically reframing it for bi-partisan consumption, and as such it likely just reaps waves of twisted confirmation bias in opposing parties who might continue to read my posts even though I've long stopped reading theirs - that's a very relevant point and it's possible I should give it more weight than I do. But for the most part, I use these threads for venting to the choir so that my head doesn't explode. (And as I'm typing this, it's occurring to me that your point is a good one and that venting in mixed company - regardless of how much I ignore that it's mixed company - will have unintended consequences. Damn it! Venting feels helpful. )

Anyway, "antithesis" is self-evident. "Synthesis" is self evident. But I gave up on finding those things here, for better or for worse (and I'm writing this out to explain because I doubt I'm alone in it). There's always a lingering hope that someone will eventually stumble in these forums who's actually capable of presenting antithesis. Really, good effective dialogue (that produces "synthesis"/understanding all around) is a total high.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I agree. I've posted this point a couple times before: this thread, and really the whole forum, is stuck in co-mingling echo chamber mode. None of the Trumpublicans who frequent the forum know how to engage in dialogue enough to give responses that help understanding. Instead the responses either give me the impression they simply use the forum to build the skill of railroading through conversation in a more confident way (kind of like how people might go through a kind of training before they stand witness in court, so that there are no curveballs the other side can throw that'll rattle them, or I guess like exposure therapy), or they hit this wall and instead of hearing any well thought out argument presented to them they respond with slimy, manipulative ad hominems and/or passive-aggressive baiting to deflect from the argument they aren't capable of responding to. Essentially, trying to 'win' dialogue through manipulative power plays rather than presenting an argument that wins by merit of itself. All feedback that Never-Trumpublicans have been given (that I've seen) in regard to these discourse styles gets dismissed and treated as if the ones issuing the feedback are the ones dispatching the problematic behavior (most likely because if a person isn't aware of how to engage in dialogue - "thesis + antithesis = synthesis", and instead see dialogue as a bunch of power plays like "synthesis = everyone sees MY thesis is right, because I figured out how to present it effectively enough" - then they can neither offer or recognize antithesis, and they project their own power plays to 'win' being right instead). I always give people a chance, but when they systematically demonstrate they aren't capable of actual dialogue then I start ignoring. Life is too short. Anyway, because the threads in this forum never get past co-mingling echo chambers, I've taken to using them simply to vent to the choir. Venting serves the purpose of getting rid of some of the emotional charge. It's not great in the sense that I tend to forget there's opposition here who reads it, I'm not diplomatically reframing it for bi-partisan consumption, and as such it likely just reaps waves of twisted confirmation bias in opposing parties who might continue to read my posts even though I've long stopped reading theirs - that's a very relevant point and it's possible I should give it more weight than I do. But for the most part, I use these threads for venting to the choir so that my head doesn't explode. (And as I'm typing this, it's occurring to me that your point is a good one and that venting in mixed company - regardless of how much I ignore that it's mixed company - will have unintended consequences. Damn it! Venting feels helpful. )

I think some of them have essentially admitted to the bolded.

I don't care for writing a well thought out consideration of something, and then getting as a response some kind of lazy boilerplate talking point about the "Democrat Party." (as though I am the "Democrat party".) It just makes me feel like I wasted my time. I don't expect people to change their minds, but being interested in learning more is important to me. When it looks like people are shutting themselves off from information because it threatens their worldview, it means I can take them less seriously.

I think the truth of the matter is that much of what informs the way they vote and think is in fact deeply emotional. I don't mean that there isn't some element of emotion involved with regards to my own positions, but I think this is something that they want to hide much more. Have you ever noticed how often they want to paint themselves as "critical thinkers", "logical", "rational", or "objective"? This is all just a front, though. Dig beneath the surface or watch carefully and you can discover triggers of their own.

The reason they vote the way they do is very emotional for them, and they don't want to admit this (gender norms may play a role in this), so they hide behind lots of obfuscation and a tenuous commitment to some kind of right-wing "philosophy". The truth is that they can't even decide if monopolies are good or bad, for instance. There isn't really a philosophy; it's all just emotion. Everything else is window-dressing.