To be, or not to be...

[Jack Flak]

everyone is selfish, it's an innate attribute to control of self. what selfishness is okay and what isnt is entirely more difficult to answer...

^My point.

 

[SillySapienne]

to relate that to suicide, i think it can only be determined on a case by case basis. sure, philosophically speaking everyone should have the option to reverse a choice that was not theirs that they feel has negatively affected them (being brought into existence), but more often than not the choice to do so is based on things that were brought upon that person by their own actions--and yet the solution is one where they opt out scott free while those close to them are left with pain.

I disagree whole-heartedly.

If you research the mental health of many suicides you will find that most of them have suffered from histories of chronic mental/emotional/psychological pathologies, these pathologies *not* being a product of their choice or doing, but rather a product of their genetic being.

 

[Grayscale]

I disagree whole-heartedly.

If you research the mental health of many suicides you will find that most of them have suffered from histories of chronic mental/emotional/psychological pathologies, these pathologies *not* being a product of their choice or doing, but rather a product of their genetic being.

depending the disorder, it may or may not be curable, but for at least most of them hasn't there also been cases of people overcoming the same thing?

so, then, in the cases where people have been presented with problems beyond the hardships most of us experience, where is the line drawn with how much is expected?

i think it would be too hard to conclude, except to say that suicide, right or wrong, is often times the lazier and more selfish path between that and choosing to live.

this makes me wonder if suicide could be considered just another example of survival of the fittest.

 

[SillySapienne]

I don't get why boyfriends/girlsfriends go into stalker mode, or super-depressed mode like that dude from 40 yr. old virgin that didnt get over his girl of like 6 months for two years (Wtf?!).

Someone capable of taking their life at such a sudden whim isn't healthy in the head in the first place. They're abnormal, sick.. or something. They never were right in my eyes. Sick people do sick things.

Totally agree, on the upside, their elimination from the gene pool can be seen as a positive thing!

everyone is selfish, it's an innate attribute to control of self. what selfishness is okay and what isnt is entirely more difficult to answer... i think this is just another example of that, along with something like "is it okay to steal from someone to feed yourself?"

perhaps in this case, suicide could be justified in the sense that it is more important to stop whatever pain the person is experiencing than to avoid inflicting the pain of loss on those that know them? just like stealing could be justified in the sense that it is more important for someone to live than for another to possess the food that the person stole.

at the very least, i think most people could agree that any solution is better than one where nobody really wins, which is why you dont see many people promoting suicide as an option.

Question:

If a person I really loved and cared about was in an immense amount of persistent and incurable pain wouldn't it be selfish of me to desire and command this person to endure his or her pain so that I would not have to deal with the alternative, that being having to deal with their physical/tangible removal from *my* life and the emotional repercussions of dealing with this loss?

All and all, I am pro-choice and anti-force when it comes to most things, including this issue, and I feel that no one should be forced to live a life for which they do not want to live.

 

[SillySapienne]

depending the disorder, it may or may not be curable, but for at least most of them hasn't there also been cases of people overcoming the same thing?

so, then, in the cases where people have been presented with problems beyond the hardships most of us experience, where is the line drawn with how much is expected?

i think it would be too hard to conclude, except to say that suicide, right or wrong, is often times the lazier and more selfish path between that and choosing to live.

this makes me wonder if suicide could be considered just another example of survival of the fittest.

I wouldn't say that the following people were lazy or necessarily unfit.

Ryūnosuke Akutagawa

Diane Arbus

Kurt Cobain

Kurt Gödel

Ernest Hemingway

Primo Levi

Sylvia Plath

Anne Sexton

Vincent van Gogh

David Foster Wallace

Virginia Woolf

 

[Jeffster]

Just because you happened to have attempted suicide before doesn't mean that you necessarily had, or shared the same reasoning and intent as others who have attempted or committed suicide had/have.

The hypothetical suicides I am advocating here are deliberately and rationally planned out/thought through.

That's the whole problem, advocating hypotheticals is pretty useless. If you have an actual case, and can provide the details of it, then maybe we can find a solution that alleviates pain without ending life.

Have you witnessed someone slowly and excruciatingly painfully wither away from a terminal disease?

Yes.

Awesome blossom, Hammurabi would approve!

I looked up who Hammurabi is, but I still don't get the connection.

 

[swordpath]

I do how ever full its the most bullshit of ways to go out and if you are such a puss that you cant even deal with the day to day basics of life then you dont deserve it anyways, but thats a completely different topic.

Tread lightly. You apparently can't empathize with those that suffer from severe depression... Maybe don't talk down on that which you don't understand. Not going to start anything, but just take it easy. I'm pretty sure some of us have known those have taken their lives, attempted or at least considered. Calling them pussies isn't much of a courtesy.

 

[disregard]

More than a question but a personal choice.

I believe that every man has the right to choose to live or choose to cease to live and hence that suicide should not only be every man's right but also every man's option.

Thoughts?

It already is every man's option. It is not every man's right, legally.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I wouldn't say that the following people were lazy or necessarily unfit.

...Kurt Cobain ...

...Vincent van Gogh...

The first one was a major heroine addict and the second one was totally crazy. They were necessarily unfit in some obvious sense. These two probably hurt the argument. I don't know enough about the rest of the list, though.

 

[Jack Flak]

And it's kind of beside the point, but the investigation into Kurt's death was lackluster, and some think Courtney had something to do with it. She seems pretty evil to me, who knows.

There are theories Van Gogh's insanity was a result of the paint he used.

 

[GZA]

Kurt Cobain also had severe medical problems unrelated to his heroin addiction. I think it was some stomach problem that caused near-constant severe pain that was difficult to treat, which is one of the reasons he did a lot of heroin and became addicted. Mentally speaking, Kurt Cobain was more emotionally hurt then psychologically insane or anything like that.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Mentally speaking, Kurt Cobain was more emotionally hurt then psychologically insane or anything like that.

That line gets very blurry often times.