[MBTI General] the 'S'tupid stereotype

[Jaguar]

I think you should ask me again.

I already know the answer.

 

[Little_Sticks]

Okay, maybe you meant something else about the posters in that thread. It's hard to read you. You come off like there's always a chip on your shoulder and can't be bothered to explain yourself clearly. There's always some kind of condescension to what you write.

Not that you probably care, but if I misunderstand you, you can tell me and that'll be the end of it. I'm not perfect.

I already know the answer.

I'm a little curious. What is it that you think you know about me?

 

[BadOctopus]

Who would have predicted that this thread would go in this direction? Shocking, Watson, shocking!

I think people who prefer vanilla over chocolate are all crazy. There, see? N types can make stupid statements, too.

 

[Frosty]

Why are we talking about icecream? Its making me hungry

 

[Ene]

"Everybody is a genius but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid." Albert Einstein.

I think, in many ways, that intelligence is relavent to the values of those doing the measuring. Therefore, whether sensors or intuitives are smarter wholly depends upon the context and upon the development of individuals.

 

[Occam's Chainsaw]

Regarding the following...

Sensors:

• Not creative; unimaginative
• Don't see the 'big picture'
• Have significantly lower IQs than N-types
• Incapable of making connections

What are your thoughts?
Do you have any to add?

Partially true. You can Google for studies showing that the best correlation with high IQ is dominant Introverted Intuition. It's a future-based, pattern finding, function. That's what IQ does. Ne can also more loosely be correlated with IQ which makes sense given it's still-pattern-finding nature.

The classic definition of intelligence is to see past the concrete and see the intangible, creative connections that aren't so obvious. The definition is heavily skewed towards intuition. Nonetheless, it's the parameter we're using. So yes, the above has some substance.

 

[violett]

I don't agree at all with the above list. My middle daughter is an Esfp, as part of her college curriculum she was required to take a psychology course. She confessed a full semester after that she could not understand the material and would not take another Psych class again. In contrast, it would be a dream come true for me if I went to college majoring in Psych. And I accept and understand she has different interests and strengths than mine, and its okay. I think there are so many people who get involved in personality typing system who lose the original purpose behind learning about personality types. And instead end up misinterpreting and abusing the system in terms of boosting their own ego, engage is pigeon-holing, and indulge in unfair stereotyping. Also, My daughter is a gifted athlete and very popular amongst her peers, she has no lack of interest or adequacy within those realms.

If I remember David Keirsey's book is entitled "Please Understand Me II" and Isabella Meyers-Briggs wrote "Gifts Differing".

 

[Fun in the Sun]

I love science, but more of the geological and biological. I liked and did okay in physics, but didn't like chemistry. I hated calculus with a passion. Overall, college sucked for me.

 

[Fun in the Sun]

I really don't get "intuition". I consider myself to be smart and creative, and I do some abstract thinking, but I'm pretty realistic and literal. I'll make connections when I need to and not just for the sake of it.

 

[cascadeco]

Partially true. You can Google for studies showing that the best correlation with high IQ is dominant Introverted Intuition. It's a future-based, pattern finding, function. That's what IQ does. Ne can also more loosely be correlated with IQ which makes sense given it's still-pattern-finding nature.

The classic definition of intelligence is to see past the concrete and see the intangible, creative connections that aren't so obvious. The definition is heavily skewed towards intuition. Nonetheless, it's the parameter we're using. So yes, the above has some substance.

The thing about these studies is don't they usually deal with self reported mbti's? There's a big problem already with that, given many smarter sensors could easily test as N and believe themselves to be N based on the nature of the tests. I mean, like I previously posted, in my 20's, had I been part of this study, I would have have added to the number of High IQ INxJ's, thinking I was one, mostly due to stereotypes about sensors. Incorrectly. And, if mbti practitioners happen to unconsciously or consciously type someone as N due to their ability to see the big picture, that also feeds into potential issues with studies such as this.

Anyhow, ability is different from preference. I have the aptitude to do really well at analysis and logic components of tests, and did well at iq type tests, but the truth is, in my day to day life, in my conversations (or lack of), what I care about, what I find important vs pointless, I really don't find much value in theoretical talks, quickly can find them to be pointless, can become very bored with them if they drag on, and I have a strong preference for the world around me. And though I test well in logic, math, whatnot, none of that is at all evident when conversing with me because I really don't use that as my prime lens of approaching the world, like at all. Though I spend a lot of time in my head, it's become clear to me that little of what goes on in my head has anything to do with what intuitives muse over, or their conversations. I'm pretty darn grounded I think. I have existential issues and think I contemplate 'deep things' for sure, as do I think most sensors, as do most human beings tbh, I think though I, and maybe other sensors, don't allow myself to get lost in them, and at the end of the day I tend to find these things not so important in the grand scheme, or maybe more accurately, I'm not willing to 'waste' my time talking about things that by nature may not ever have an answer, vs being alive and enjoying the world around me - because that's far more real to me than a world of thoughts. (not that intuitives differ that much, am just explaining my pov)

 

[violett]

I really don't get "intuition". I consider myself to be smart and creative, and I do some abstract thinking, but I'm pretty realistic and literal. I'll make connections when I need to and not just for the sake of it.

I signed myself out of high school when I turned 18. There were extenuating circumstances contributing which were beyond my control and I gave up trying because I was too far behind. My high school advanced double biology lab teacher cried, and said I was wasting my potential. I cut class regularly and even though I didn't show up all week to a two period a day advanced lab class and still managed to score high B's and low A's, without trying. She told me there were students in her class which were present every single day and studied every night and struggled.

 

[1487610420]

The thing about these studies is don't they usually deal with self reported mbti's? There's a big problem already with that, given many smarter sensors could easily test as N and believe themselves to be N based on the nature of the tests. I mean, like I previously posted, in my 20's, had I been part of this study, I would have have added to the number of High IQ INxJ's, thinking I was one, mostly due to stereotypes about sensors. Incorrectly. And, if mbti practitioners happen to unconsciously or consciously type someone as N due to their ability to see the big picture, that also feeds into potential issues with studies such as this.

Anyhow, ability is different from preference. I have the aptitude to do really well at analysis and logic components of tests, and did well at iq type tests, but the truth is, in my day to day life, in my conversations (or lack of), what I care about, what I find important vs pointless, I really don't find much value in theoretical talks, quickly can find them to be pointless, can become very bored with them if they drag on, and I have a strong preference for the world around me. And though I test well in logic, math, whatnot, none of that is at all evident when conversing with me because I really don't use that as my prime lens of approaching the world, like at all. Though I spend a lot of time in my head, it's become clear to me that little of what goes on in my head has anything to do with what intuitives muse over, or their conversations. I'm pretty darn grounded I think. I have existential issues and think I contemplate 'deep things' for sure, as do I think most sensors, as do most human beings tbh, I think though I, and maybe other sensors, don't allow myself to get lost in them, and at the end of the day I tend to find these things not so important in the grand scheme, or maybe more accurately, I'm not willing to 'waste' my time talking about things that by nature may not ever have an answer, vs being alive and enjoying the world around me - because that's far more real to me than a world of thoughts. (not that intuitives differ that much, am just explaining my pov)

Darn!
ohi :hi:

 

[21%]

"Everybody is a genius but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid." Albert Einstein.

I think, in many ways, that intelligence is relavent to the values of those doing the measuring. Therefore, whether sensors or intuitives are smarter wholly depends upon the context and upon the development of individuals.

This.

I believe the whole IQ thing is bunk anyways.

 

[Fun in the Sun]

I signed myself out of high school when I turned 18. There were extenuating circumstances contributing which were beyond my control and I gave up trying because I was too far behind. My high school advanced double biology lab teacher cried, and said I was wasting my potential. I cut class regularly and even though I didn't show up all week to a two period a day advanced lab class and still managed to score high B's and low A's, without trying. She told me there were students in her class which were present every single day and studied every night and struggled.

Shit, that sounds awful, having to leave high school early. I couldn't imagine. I probably would've felt bitter toward life and toward the circumstances that caused it. I did have many difficult circumstances in college that almost led to me not finishing. I actually can't believe I did graduate.

Like you, I could do well without studying very much. I had a very good memory. It worked well in high school, but not in college. I just didn't have the time or patience to put into the hours of studying needed to do well, especially with everything that was going on in my life.

But hey, life is what it is and I wouldn't have wanted it to turn out any differently.

 

[violett]

Shit, that sounds awful, having to leave high school early. I couldn't imagine. I probably would've felt bitter toward life and toward the circumstances that caused it. I did have many difficult circumstances in college that almost led to me not finishing. I actually can't believe I did graduate.

Like you, I could do well without studying very much. I had a very good memory. It worked well in high school, but not in college. I just didn't have the time or patience to put into the hours of studying needed to do well, especially with everything that was going on in my life.

But hey, life is what it is and I wouldn't have wanted it to turn out any differently.

It took me years to get over the circumstances which caused it (I don't speak to or have a relationship with the person who was responsible, I learned to cut toxic raging narcissistic people out of my life). I ended up going to business school in my mid twenties and surprisingly the diploma I received qualified me for the field I'm currently employed within, so my life turned out well in the long run.

 

[Ene]

This.

I believe the whole IQ thing is bunk anyways.

Thanks. Me, too.

 

[Jaguar]

Okay, maybe you meant something else about the posters in that thread. It's hard to read you. You come off like there's always a chip on your shoulder and can't be bothered to explain yourself clearly. There's always some kind of condescension to what you write.

Not that you probably care, but if I misunderstand you, you can tell me and that'll be the end of it. I'm not perfect.

It can be difficult reading people like me who play devil's advocate to test the strength of an argument.

The phoenix rising from the ashes is the mythological symbol for life after death. That is why I posted it in your "War is Beautiful" thread. Many posts in that thread missed the entire point of your premise, and it shows in the comments of those who participated. No surprise there, really. (If one takes the premise literally, rather than abstractly.) And many of those who missed the abstract premise were those who claim to have a preference for N.

My point in this thread, however, is quite simple - what you have accused so-called Ss of is what so-called Ns have been "guilty" of for years - the inability to think abstractly.

Preference for S or N =/= skill or ability.

 

[Poki]

Its was funny becuse my self proclaimed think tank uncle who listened to nothing but talk radio bought an IQ test program and he started bragging on his 120 something score. Which is higher hen average. I was 13 at the time, he pushed me to take the adult version and I scored 140. He felt stupid because of how high he raised himself up. Since then I have yet to take any offifcail test, but every online test I have taken pu.ts me in the 155-165 range.

 

[FemMecha]

Regarding the following...

Sensors:

• Not creative; unimaginative
• Don't see the 'big picture'
• Have significantly lower IQs than N-types
• Incapable of making connections

What are your thoughts?
Do you have any to add?

Sensors do all these things, but they are applied more directly to the concrete world than to the abstract world of ideas. Many of the following professions benefit from people with strong sensing preferences: music, art, dance, race-care drivers, fireman, combat solider, sports player, scientists who must be meticulous handling/analyzing concrete specimens, nurses, surgeons, etc.

I would say that a fireman has a way of perceiving the big picture when entering a burning building. As a strong N, I'm rather spacey, so I would tend to see fragments of that reality. I can see that a theoretical physicist is likely an intuitive and would be looking at the biggest conceivable picture the human mind can conjure, but I don't see that as a measure of intelligence. My own lack of comprehension of all the concrete details around me is also a type of intelligence lack. I don't care for any form of elitism, so I'm definitely on the side of respecting every type for its strengths and uniqueness.

 

[Poki]

And I am the technical/team lead over a group of 9 developers. I help hire team members and I don't look for s vs n. I look for 2 things. I good base of knowledge and the desire to dig in and solve problems. I don't care about the latest and greatest lingo or buzz words. I look for a solid knowledge of application. We actually are pretty split between N and S and we have a very functional group as we don't have any I an better then thou. We have experts in the group in different areas and we recognize each others strengths aside from any N vs S. As a teammlead I see the S vs N, but I don't really use MBTI to lead, I just look at each person. MBTI is just a framework to compare things to, it does not actually define people.

Programming is a science field. Looking across this company we are pretty split between n and s and I work for a 50billion a year company. Pretty good size base of people to look at in IT field.
The biggest thing I value is the desire to learn and apply over anything else.