The psychology of forum and online dynamics

[zarc]

Well, INTP and INFP as well.

I know that. That's why I mentioned Ti and Fi as well as Si too and of course Ni. So, not just INTP or INFP, the whole range of Introverts! Or Se etc, whole range of Extroverts too.

 

[Geoff]

I would agree with the level playing field idea, at least in the beginning stages of ones' forum experiences. One can be more 'free' and uninhibited in interaction, without any preconceived notions from others, or any expectations. It's like starting out in a new school - no one knows you, and you start out with a clean slate, so to speak.

But I'd argue that over time, this too disappears, and eventually many of these real life factors do resurface, because once one is on the forum long enough, he's familiar with the dynamics and 'social structure', such that it is, so he might consciously or unconsciously feel more restricted, and since ones own baggage is present online as well as real-life, eventually the same 'problems' could occur online as occurs in real life (if this makes any sense..sigh)...but that's probably highly dependent on the individual in how that manifests. Also, over time, more of the individuals' behaviors and thoughts will have surfaced, so if he is active enough on the board, eventually he will have carved out a very similar 'identity' and 'role' to how he is in real life - that is, if he is being genuine - so his online experiences at that point might mirror real-life very closely. (? Again, it all depends - or, maybe I'm just projecting myself into this entire paragraph)

I think this was in my mind...somewhere underneath.. when I was talking about increasing need for attention as things developing creating "trolls". Perhaps this is part of it? A brave new world eventually turns out to have similar issues to the "real" one.. and demands for attention come out in "trolling"... where behaviour is not so easily filtered by the reality of face to face interactions?

I'm not sure. Again, I think this boils down to the individual. For myself, since I believe Fe is fairly strong both in real life and on the net, I continue to follow social conventions that I find conducive to interaction and I suppose my desire for harmony.

I can see your point on the active members maybe being on a stage, seeing as many people do just read/browse/lurk without participating as much.

As for myself, I actually don't see this as 'safe'. In fact it's probably far less 'safe' psychologically for me than real-life, because I AM choosing to be more open in what I share online, and I am broadcasting all of it to all of the lurkers too. Also, the forum provides a unique outlet for a lot of discussions that simply don't happen to me in real life. And finally, to one of your points, I guess I do use it to 'test' myself -- not in the sense that I'm playing a role, but I'm testing my limits in openness and how all of it affects me emotionally/psychologically. And, using what I learn from here, I then try to better understand how I can integrate it in my real life, and where I can draw parallels.

I suppose everyone's mileage will vary... but I do see large scale signs that people both recognise the size of the audience, and then choose to ignore it by pretending small scale discussions are private, as if they were over a coffee... it's quite fascinating...

 

[zarc]

I suppose everyone's mileage will vary... but I do see large scale signs that people both recognise the size of the audience, and then choose to ignore it by pretending small scale discussions are private, as if they were over a coffee... it's quite fascinating...

It could also be thought of when people are in small cafes or restaurants, they feel as though they are holding private conversations but may not realise that others are focusing on them at semi-close ranges. So, some might recognise it and/or choose to ignore it or honestly forget it.

Wouldn't my speaking directly to you be seen as a bit of a private discussion because I've pointed you out or you to others when we quote one another? It's just that others can listen in, whether you or I recognised that or not or then forget (I don't know about pretend, maybe for some people who aren't aware?). And discussions will still revolve around us within the same topic/branched off or with us when others decide to comment on our comments. Hmm.

 

[Zergling]

All of these points apply to all forums that I have seen, not just this one:

Chit-chat posts, various versions of "noob", "you suck", etc.: Unless moderators or other people on the forums put some pressure against these types of posts, they will crop up more and thanks to the ease of making them. (It takes a long time to write up a long strategy, a description of some theory, or any sort of well though out post, and sometimes the person does not have the information or room in the thread to make such a post. On the other hand, Making the sort of post said above takes little time and can almost always be done.) it is also faster to read shorter posts, so they will as likely as not get a large string of shorter posts going if that is considered allowable/o.k. on the forum. (All of the above applies to blog comments also)

Forums that are about something will tend to dry out and get less threads over time, as people make threads first on the obvious stuff, than the less obvious, than comes sorting out the details, finding all the nooks and crannies of the subject, until it is mostly explored. New people will have a harder time getting threads started, as older stuff they could talk about is likely in the thread already, which may be read without responding, or if responded to, will get little activity as necromancered threads in general tend ot attract a lot less attention.

Forums will tend to get competition going with other forums, this just seems to be an extension of how a lot of groups tend ot get competetive with something else. Also like other groups, they will have a tendency to drift to certain political views, views on life, social groups of people (in the outside world), etc., probably because of how writing styles and subjects brought up will ionfluence certain types of people towards or away from the forums. (One reason for why MBTIcentral may have trouble attracting a larger type diversity, or diversity in socioeconomic or political terms, it is not purposefully through saying that sensors suck, but just because people write a certain way, and talk about things a certain way, which will tend to make it seem more or less inviting to other types of people.)

 

[Athenian200]

I think one of the larger aspects of a forum is a sense of mental freedom. You know that you can say things and challenge ideas that would lead to you being ostracized in many public places in real life. I think, like many other things in life, it's a good aspect when used properly, but bad when it's abused.

Another is a stronger sense of mental/emotional identity coming through. The things that normally color your perception, such as mannerisms, things done to impress people, quietness, and fashion, don't come through. You're judged more on who you are consciously, on a mental level, rather than who you are from the perspective of your actions or appearance. The quiet periods in between aren't judged, just the periods where expression comes through.

 

[heart]

If one cannot bring themselves to say what they want to on message boards without fearing being ostracized, one will never learn to be brave enough to be free thinking anywhere in the world!

 

[Mycroft]

This is very interesting to me because I find it so much easier to interact here than in real life. When I communicate in RL, I see body language and other physical elements as impediments to my message instead of enhancements of it.

I agree. In my teenage years I got the accusations of "talking/looking like a robot" most INTs are familiar with. From observing others I've built up a pool of facial expressions and mannerisms to draw from as the situation warrants, but these are conscious choices and divert "processing cycles" away from formulating my statement. The written word allows me to focus entirely on my message.

It's entirely logical that EXSPs, for whom gesticulations and emoting come so naturally and largely without conscious attention, would on some level assume such is the case for everyone. Every person of every type is guilty, to some extent or another, of assuming the minds of other humans operate similarly to his own.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Another interesting and controversial aspect of this site is how some people/groups seem to require and demand production of saccharine validation/affirmation/attention. It's hard to precisely label it, but here's an example:

Member 1: I had such a rough day. It's so hard to... I try so hard, but sometimes I feel like...

All this is calculated, in my estimation, to elicit this type of response:

Member 2: It's okay! You're a great person, blah blah blah...

That response only encourages Member 1 to continue with the pity/validation game instead of address why he or she really needs that validation. I find it pretty fascinating. It seems like it's a very SFJ thing.

 

[mippus]

Another interesting and controversial aspect of this site is how some people/groups seem to require and demand production of saccharine validation/affirmation/attention. It's hard to precisely label it, but here's an example:

Member 1: I had such a rough day. It's so hard to... I try so hard, but sometimes I feel like...

All this is calculated, in my estimation, to elicit this type of response:

Member 2: It's okay! You're a great person, blah blah blah...

That response only encourages Member 1 to continue with the pity/validation game instead of address why he or she really needs that validation. I find it pretty fascinating. It seems like it's a very SFJ thing.

Or: making brutal teenish comments and others enjoying and encouraging that. An NTJ thing?

 

[Totenkindly]

Member 1: I had such a rough day. It's so hard to... I try so hard, but sometimes I feel like...

All this is calculated, in my estimation, to elicit this type of response:

Member 2: It's okay! You're a great person, blah blah blah...

That response only encourages Member 1 to continue with the pity/validation game instead of address why he or she really needs that validation. I find it pretty fascinating. It seems like it's a very SFJ thing.

That's funny. When I've done #1 and I get #2, usually I feel let down and disappointed, sometimes even frustrated and annoyed. I want someone to say either, "Yeah, I've been through that too, it sucks, huh?" or to sit there and dig through it all with me and figure out what it all means.

Could be SFJ... but I've seen a lot of FPs (both S and N) want that sort of thing too.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Or: making brutal teenish comments and others enjoying and encouraging that. An NTJ thing?

MUHAHAHAHAHA!

Probably just "NT."

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

That's funny. When I've done #1 and I get #2, usually I feel let down and disappointed, sometimes even frustrated and annoyed. I want someone to say either, "Yeah, I've been through that too, it sucks, huh?" or to sit there and dig through it all with me and figure out what it all means.

Could be SFJ... but I've seen a lot of FPs (both S and N) want that sort of thing too.

That makes sense. The peace of mind that an INTP gets from mapping a situation with accuracy and seeing how all the pieces fit together is immense. Why do you think people respond with you're so great ? I'm thinking either:

1. Inability to tolerate discomfort. I would bet that these people are also highly empathic.
2. Blog-culture: perceived pressure to "flock" and remain within the herd.
3. Something in the way your post is phrased, or maybe how other posts are phrased (diction, the way you reply to others, etc.). Not trying to call you out, of course, just "dig through it all," as you said.

 

[miss fortune]

Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...

 

[disregard]

Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...

But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?

 

[Totenkindly]

That makes sense. The peace of mind that an INTP gets from mapping a situation with accuracy and seeing how all the pieces fit together is immense. Why do you think people respond with you're so great ?

I think F people in particular (although not exclusively) want to know they're loved or accepted right away, as the basis.

I have watched T and F people argue together, and it is just CRAZY... The T's looking for intellectual validation and sometimes even a solution; the F's looking for personal validation, regardless of the problem, and a sense the other person empathizes and cares. (sort of the "sympathy" approach).

Sometimes sympathy is nice... but unless I am particularly needing affirmation of someone's commitment to me, it's like, "Okay, that's sweet of you and I know why you're doing that, thanks... but I still feel empty and untouched and indifferent."

1. Inability to tolerate discomfort. I would bet that these people are also highly empathic.

That happens. definitely.

2. Blog-culture: perceived pressure to "flock" and remain within the herd.

maybe, yes -- some form of group comraderie.

3. Something in the way your post is phrased, or maybe how other posts are phrased (diction, the way you reply to others, etc.). Not trying to call you out, of course, just "dig through it all," as you said.

Well, I think all types of people can use the same sort of language, it's just that we use it to mean different things. So yes, I think sometimes I'm throwing out lines that come across one way to some people but I mean it differently.

[I was just trying to help Targ, for example, and support her in her blog... and I kept analyzing her comments, clarifying what was going on, giving examples of my life to say, "Yes i understand"... and feeling like I wasn't really giving her what she wanted. I dunno. I just can't instinctively speak that other language well.]

I also think that, to other people, they truly desire that sympathetic affirmation -- it makes them feel loved and included -- which runs a little deeper in the herd thing imo. Just like when a kid falls down and skins his knee and the mom sympathizes immediately, where someone else might empathize but instead go to bandage it up. I have been in those situations -- where one of my children (the esfp) kept crying over something and he wouldn't stop no matter how understanding or empathic I was. he wanted very visceral sympathy, even if the problem never got fixed; but to me, that sort of sympathy didn't make any sense, it didn't seem substantial.

 

[Geoff]

But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?

Rather than simply questioning it as something of debatable value, here's your opportunity for the psychoanalysis to come in. What do you see as the the underlying motives? Why do you think this is happening on forums?

 

[miss fortune]

But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?

Humans are social animals- having a bond with others is often a means within its own!

 

[disregard]

Rather than simply questioning it as something of debatable value, here's your opportunity for the psychoanalysis to come in. What do you see as the the underlying motives? Why do you think this is happening on forums?

Security.. a sacrifice of quality and an insurance of security seems like a good tradeoff to some, I suppose.

 

[mippus]

But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?

Don't we all (even the most outspoken I's) want to belong to something? Isolation is one of our greatest fears. And yes, friendship has a very selfish side to it. So what? It's a convention and we all value and enjoy it...

 

[disregard]

Mippus, to quote whatever:

Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...

This is a cluttersome form of friendship.. takes up great space.. but it is empty and meaningness between the two persons.

Don't we all (even the most outspoken I's) want to belong to something? Isolation is one of our greatest fears. And yes, friendship has a very selfish side to it. So what? It's a convention and we all value and enjoy it...

I have friendships that mean a lot to me.. one of the reasons is that we do not scratch eachother's back, we do not make public displays of affection or recognition, but in private deeply appreciate one another and have a high quality friendship due to what is given and received. The other type.. I have absolutely no desire for.