The Murder of George Floyd & Subsequent Protests/Riots

[Mind Maverick]

It's a silly, superfluous, unnecessary prefix. If two fires are moving from opposite sides of a valley toward a town in the center, no one refers to one of the fires as "reverse fire"

I do think you're overly focused on something that is actually an insignificant detail...like who cares? You still get the point of what's being explained. Let it go...and no, the term is not racist itself. You're being kind of ridiculous.

 

[Maou]

Conspiracy time: I think the riots are instigated by the FBI and foreign nationals. I've been on 4chan the last few days, and there are posts of people trying to get 4chan to "riot", posing as White Nationalists and attempting to garner support. (4chan only pretends to be racist majority, but its not in actuality). 4chan didn't take the bait. This is really bizarre if you think about it. So I think white nationalists are being scapegoated by the FBI (who frequently browses 4chan), to cause unrest (no one will defend WN). Anyone see the bricks provided at most city centers? Same things were found in hong kong protests.

Also, did anyone notice Covid practically disappeared overnight? Its not even clinically present in Italy. So the media was lying about that too, all to control the populace. They killed small business with lockdowns, and finished them off with riots. Social distancing was trashed for riots, but not for businesses.

This is huge organized attack on the American people, using racism and a pandemic to cause unrest in hopes of a civil war. Probably funded by Russia or China, and people are falling for it by rioting. Some European nations are already entertaining the idea of China taking the place of USA in leading the world.

 

[The Cat]

Conspiracy time: I think the riots are instigated by the FBI and foreign nationals. I've been on 4chan the last few days, and there are posts of people trying to get 4chan to "riot", posing as White Nationalists and attempting to garner support. (4chan only pretends to be racist majority, but its not in actuality). 4chan didn't take the bait. This is really bizarre if you think about it. So I think white nationalists are being scapegoated by the FBI (who frequently browses 4chan), to cause unrest (no one will defend WN). Anyone see the bricks provided at most city centers? Same things were found in hong kong protests.

Also, did anyone notice Covid practically disappeared overnight? Its not even clinically present in Italy. So the media was lying about that too, all to control the populace. They killed small business with lockdowns, and finished them off with riots. Social distancing was trashed for riots, but not for businesses.

This is huge organized attack on the American people, using racism and a pandemic to cause unrest in hopes of a civil war. Probably funded by Russia or China, and people are falling for it by rioting. Some European nations are already entertaining the idea of China taking the place of USA in leading the world.

I think you might need to lay off the clover.

 

[Jonny]

Conspiracy time: I think the riots are instigated by the FBI and foreign nationals. I've been on 4chan the last few days, and there are posts of people trying to get 4chan to "riot", posing as White Nationalists and attempting to garner support. (4chan only pretends to be racist majority, but its not in actuality). 4chan didn't take the bait. This is really bizarre if you think about it. So I think white nationalists are being scapegoated by the FBI (who frequently browses 4chan), to cause unrest (no one will defend WN). Anyone see the bricks provided at most city centers? Same things were found in hong kong protests.

Also, did anyone notice Covid practically disappeared overnight? Its not even clinically present in Italy. So the media was lying about that too, all to control the populace. They killed small business with lockdowns, and finished them off with riots. Social distancing was trashed for riots, but not for businesses.

This is huge organized attack on the American people, using racism and a pandemic to cause unrest in hopes of a civil war. Probably funded by Russia or China, and people are falling for it by rioting. Some European nations are already entertaining the idea of China taking the place of USA in leading the world.

You’re conflating news coverage of COVID-19 with prevalence. Graphs of its spread over time show no recent slope discontinuity (i.e. no drastic changes that would support your conspiracy theory):

In fact, cases in Italy have changed precisely as one might expect given the lockdown. Also, you claim that people “posing as white nationalists” are instigating on 4chan. What makes you think they’re “posing” as opposed to being the real deal?

My fiancée and mother work at Stanford in the quantitative science unit and neurosurgery department, respectively. Both are engaged with COVID-19 policy and research constantly. How is it that some armchair sleuth browsing 4chan is better informed about matters of public health than people whose professional lives are based in that arena. And coincidentally enough, all of your theories have one thing in common: deflecting blame from your beloved POTUS.

Your continued actions make the world worse, and are leading to the destruction of our society. Stop it. I’m begging you.

 

[ceecee]

Minneapolis council member: Conversations underway to disband police

 

[Jonny]

Also, I want to be clear. It is reasonable to suspect that US adversaries are inflaming the unrest in the United States just like they did with the 2016 election. But the idea that this is orchestrated by them is absurd. And the idea that the FBI is participating in some deep state destruction of our society is unfounded.

 

[Jonny]

Minneapolis council member: Conversations underway to disband police

I was telling my dad the other day. I think one possible solution to this crisis is for municipalities to simply rebuild a peacekeeping force from the ground up. Create a department whose central goal is to serve the public good and promote safety, and have them replace the police.

 

[Maou]

Also, you claim that people “posing as white nationalists” are instigating on 4chan. What makes you think they’re “posing” as opposed to being the real deal?

Because actual white nationalists have been on 4chan for years, and they have a distinct way of doing things. They don't go around recruiting people directly. These guys were fake, because of how they talk. They sounded foreign, and used phrases like "my fellow american". White nationalists usually just wait for you to show dislike, and try to ease you into their group and not being openly hateful, and try to use science to back up their claims. They wouldn't get anyone on their side otherwise. They are clever about it, and infect you slowly.

4chan is experts at trolling, so their bullshit-o-meter is far more keen than most people's. Similar posts were made to Antifa as well, and Antifa flooded 4chan asking questions. So someone is trying to rile up both sides, and pit them against each other. Someone is funding the protests, and turning them violent. Just look at how many organizers are from out of state. My own local one, was orchestrated by someone from Texas. Why are the violent ones only in deep blue states? The reason I think its foreign nationals, is the fact the worst of it is in DC (which the riots were heavily censored on social media, and many accounts were botted to post #dcsafe, by twitter or hackers), and highly populated citys.

Gonna find out real quick if Covid is as bad as we think, when the rioters all start falling ill. If they don't, what does that say?

All I am saying is there is something more to this than Floyd's murder. His death is being used as a catalyst.

 

[ceecee]

I was telling my dad the other day. I think one possible solution to this crisis is for municipalities to simply rebuild a peacekeeping force from the ground up. Create a department whose central goal is to serve the public good and promote safety, and have them replace the police.

Yes. The last week shows this needs to happen at the city level, it's an unprecedented chance for communities and mayors to make real changes. But real change can't happen within the current framework - no one believes in it or trusts it.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think you might need to lay off the clover.

to be fair, we were all on board with conspiracy theories about Russian intervention and meddling when the theories were coming from people on the left, even when we didn't have all of the facts available.

I don't see any factual evidence to necessarily support what she's saying, but given some of the shady shit US gov't agencies have been revealed to have been involved in in past decades, I would not be one bit surprised. I don't think the COVID-19 pandemic is fake, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years the FBI or some other agency is revealed to have been involved in inciting violence at some of these protests. But I'm also not ruling out the possibility of white nationalists infiltrating said protests to instigate violence and blame it on Antifa. Hey, maybe it's both involved in stirring shit up to make the protesters look bad and turn public opinion against movements like BLM. Or maybe they wanted the protests to happen so the coronavirus would spread more quickly among the black and left wing communities.

 

[Lark]

Maybe this belongs in the confessions thread but when I see all the protest rallies repeatedly on the TV everyday, all I can think of is, guys, there's still this pandemic thing.

Pandemic doesnt care what race you are or what you're protesting.

 

[Lark]

to be fair, we were all on board with conspiracy theories about Russian intervention and meddling when the theories were coming from people on the left, even when we didn't have all of the facts available.

I don't see any factual evidence to necessarily support what she's saying, but given some of the shady shit US gov't agencies have been revealed to have been involved in in past decades, I would not be one bit surprised. I don't think the COVID-19 pandemic is fake, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years the FBI or some other agency is revealed to have been involved in inciting violence at some of these protests. But I'm also not ruling out the possibility of white nationalists infiltrating said protests to instigate violence and blame it on Antifa. Hey, maybe it's both involved in stirring shit up to make the protesters look bad and turn public opinion against movements like BLM. Or maybe they wanted the protests to happen so the coronavirus would spread more quickly among the black and left wing communities.

I cant believe anyone talks about antifa, its a complete non-entity bogey of the right, its like talking about "commies" or "the red menace" or "yellow peril" and meaning it.

They are not a force in anything other than the minds of the people who imagine they are fighting them, there used to actually be a hooligan element in the UK called AFA, anti-fascist action, and they were like a group that existed in the US called anti-racist action, both of them dont exist anymore, the UK one was heavily infiltrated by police informers, just as the Socialist Workers Party is or their single issue wing The Anti-Nazi League. Those things fizzle out. Its like the roads protesters and earth first that used to be popular back in the nineties or earlier, I'm not sure.

I dont think any government agencies are doing anything to do with the rioters or that there's any russian dimension, unless in support of the white nationalists and civil war two fantasists, which I do think exist. They are much more serious. I'm not even talking about any of the suspects who'd be remotely covered in the mainstream media or appear in online discussion or social media or anything like. I'm talking about the people who, in big enough numbers, went out to the wars in the desert since 9/11 as contractors, basically mercenaries, washed around the world for a while like their opposite 3rd world numbers in political islam factions, then have been filtering back to the homeland.

These are the people who in groups small enough to fill a family car will be driving around setting fires in Minnesota or putting on uniforms which make it difficult to distinguish them from the authorities and attacking rioters or similar stunts to that.

This element has the establishment totally and utterly shitting itself, there's no Jack Bower around to take them down like that season of 24 when the attempted coup by the guys who where thinly disguised blackwater mercs. Nope. Instead you have a frightened establishment which throws its weight behind reality TV stars like Trump to try and pacify not the radicals but their potential armchair support. Or so I suspect.

It could all be mistaken but the nutty right wing is much more craving of violence than the left, the first time I heard anyone talk about "roof top voting" it was on a conservative forum around about the time of Obama's election. Bushwick was a very good movie about what would happen if you had this element decide to stage some sort of limited strike on one of the cities they hate for its inhabitants. The left doesnt do organization well these days, if they ever did, let alone any kind of armed or conspiratorial effort. That all went out along with campaigning on universal issues and the obsessions with literature reviews and everything being a narrative came in.

 

[Lark]

Yes. The last week shows this needs to happen at the city level, it's an unprecedented chance for communities and mayors to make real changes. But real change can't happen within the current framework - no one believes in it or trusts it.

Yeah but there is no ready alternative, I also dont believe its exhausted, really, either.

Like if people can not be motivated or bothered to vote in enough numbers why would they participate in some insurgent alternative that required them to behave in an even more proactive fashion?

That's always seemed paradoxical to me.

 

[Maou]

joshua blessed | The Batavian

Recent Russian immigrant extremist shot and killed, saying a Civil war is coming, As well as Russia and China invading USA.

 

[Lark]

joshua blessed | The Batavian

Recent Russian immigrant extremist shot and killed, saying a Civil war is coming, As well as Russia and China invading USA.

You know that was the talk on conservative watch forums before Obama, maybe its still making the rounds.

It had its origins in discussions about whether or not the like of groups behind the Oklahoma bombing would be likely to support or resist a foreign intervention if it was seen to further their own unique aims and goals. Opinion was divided, although that was a while ago and I think the real nazi elements are bolder today than they where then, back when they where employing libertarianism as a cover and things like that.

A lot of the alt right at least have been making common cause with the Russians for a while and a lot of the white nationalist/racists or conservative religious loons (the far right is a pretty diverse place and there's often as much disagreement between themselves as between the far right and everyone else) have been talking up Putin. There was that bizarre Putin, Trump, Le Penn homage from a while back.

Got to hand it to the Ruskies, they didnt just realize that communism was a spent force for empire in their part of the world but have been willing to back the very horse the US has neglected to combat all this time.

 

[ceecee]

Yeah but there is no ready alternative, I also dont believe its exhausted, really, either.

Like if people can not be motivated or bothered to vote in enough numbers why would they participate in some insurgent alternative that required them to behave in an even more proactive fashion?

That's always seemed paradoxical to me.

Perhaps they need the right motivation.

As far as alternatives, - I just listed some, there are many more. This is a conversation that was going long before the current insurgency and you should know insurgencies are successful at getting change.

Disempower, Disarm, Disband – For A World Without Police

Here is more reading from my favorite reporting on the US criminal justice system.

Police Abolition | The Marshall Project

Look up the shopping cart theory. If people have the means, they change themselves. Give them the means.

 

[ceecee]

You know that was the talk on conservative watch forums before Obama, maybe its still making the rounds.

It had its origins in discussions about whether or not the like of groups behind the Oklahoma bombing would be likely to support or resist a foreign intervention if it was seen to further their own unique aims and goals. Opinion was divided, although that was a while ago and I think the real nazi elements are bolder today than they where then, back when they where employing libertarianism as a cover and things like that.

A lot of the alt right at least have been making common cause with the Russians for a while and a lot of the white nationalist/racists or conservative religious loons (the far right is a pretty diverse place and there's often as much disagreement between themselves as between the far right and everyone else) have been talking up Putin. There was that bizarre Putin, Trump, Le Penn homage from a while back.

Got to hand it to the Ruskies, they didnt just realize that communism was a spent force for empire in their part of the world but have been willing to back the very horse the US has neglected to combat all this time.

Because she is going to give you the right wing martyr version. He wasn't just talking shit.

Report: Tractor-trailer driver killed after shootout had explosives stockpile - News - MPNnow - Canandaigua, NY

 

[Jonny]

to be fair, we were all on board with conspiracy theories about Russian intervention and meddling when the theories were coming from people on the left, even when we didn't have all of the facts available.

I don't see any factual evidence to necessarily support what she's saying, but given some of the shady shit US gov't agencies have been revealed to have been involved in in past decades, I would not be one bit surprised. I don't think the COVID-19 pandemic is fake, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years the FBI or some other agency is revealed to have been involved in inciting violence at some of these protests. But I'm also not ruling out the possibility of white nationalists infiltrating said protests to instigate violence and blame it on Antifa. Hey, maybe it's both involved in stirring shit up to make the protesters look bad and turn public opinion against movements like BLM. Or maybe they wanted the protests to happen so the coronavirus would spread more quickly among the black and left wing communities.

I wish that the old posts on the politics subforum weren't gone, because then we could go back and hold people accountable for their beliefs. But to be clear, I wasn't "on board with conspiracy theories." Here's an example of a post of mine from reddit:

Conspiracy theories are acceptable insofar as they can prompt investigations into people of power, to shed light on truth. They aren't acceptable if they're used in place of, or in direct contradiction to, factional information--especially when they're constricted to self-soothe and actively preclude an honest investigation into and assessment of the facts. And to be clear, there was ample evidence that Russia did actively work to support Trump's election. This is not a conspiracy theory, and if you read the Russia investigation report you'd see as much. I suspect after this is all over there will be ample evidence that Russia actively worked to stoke racial and other discontent in the United States. No doubt they benefit from our continued decline.

That said, I appreciate your uncertainty and openness on the matter.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

to be fair, we were all on board with conspiracy theories about Russian intervention and meddling when the theories were coming from people on the left, even when we didn't have all of the facts available.

Do you really believe Russian interference is a conspiracy? Even though it was pretty much consensus across the intelligence community? And in spite of the information the intelligence committees have released (like, most recently, the notes about Flynn's phone calls)?

eta: Like Jonny said, an open mind is important. And no matter how damning evidence is, I always try to keep a sliver of "never say never" (so that I can see alternative actual proof when it's presented, instead of dogmatically refusing it). But Russian interference seems pretty certain.

 

[Maou]

Apparently everyone forgot that the FBI fucked up the FISA warrent, and mistakenly spied on Trump with an unverified dossier already. As well as sbuse their power in various other cases.