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The Murder of George Floyd & Subsequent Protests/Riots

Mind Maverick

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But it can't be used to snuff out the complaints about racism that are valid, as if "because sometimes people use it as a scapegoat, complaints about racism should no longer be taken seriously."

This is true. I think both sides of the argument should be acknowledged though, and currently that's not happening. Black people are racist too. Where I grew up it was the whites getting bullied in school for being white, not vice-versa. I'm not the only one in my family who experienced shit from it. I also know of plenty of white people who act like they're walking on eggshells to avoid being labelled racist when they're not because of the scapegoat issue that's not being acknowledged.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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Pretty classy response from W

Statement by President George W. Bush | Bush Center

Though it’s easy to lecture about it from an ivory tower when you don’t have to worry about re-election anymore. Police misconduct is not a new issue, and he could’ve done more to address this as President. Being a conservative republican, I think many in the law enforcement world might have been more likely to listen to him than they would to say, a liberal democrat president.

If Bush really believes in the ideals of Lincoln and JQ Adams, shame he didn’t do more to attempt to heal racial wounds during his administration
 

Z Buck McFate

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^Carter released a statement too.

Rosalynn and I are pained by the tragic racial injustices and consequent backlash across our nation in recent weeks. Our hearts are with the victims’ families and all who feel hopeless in the face of pervasive racial discrimination and outright cruelty. We all must shine a spotlight on the immorality of racial discrimination. But violence, whether spontaneous or consciously incited, is not a solution.

As a white male of the South, I know all too well the impact of segregation and injustice to African Americans. As a politician, I felt a responsibility to bring equity to my state and our country. In my 1971 inaugural address as Georgia’s governor, I said: “The time for racial discrimination is over.” With great sorrow and disappointment, I repeat those words today, nearly five decades later. Dehumanizing people debases us all; humanity is beautifully and almost infinitely diverse. The bonds of our common humanity must overcome the divisiveness of our fears and prejudices.

Since leaving the White House in 1981, Rosalynn and I have strived to advance human rights in countries around the world. In this quest, we have seen that silence can be as deadly as violence. People of power, privilege, and moral conscience must stand up and say “no more” to a racially discriminatory police and justice system, immoral economic disparities between whites and blacks, and government actions that undermine our unified democracy. We are responsible for creating a world of peace and equality for ourselves and future generations.

We need a government as good as its people, and we are better than this.
 

Mind Maverick

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What I've been trying to say about the "reverse-racism" is this:

A lot of black people have gotten defensive about racism by being racist right back--except they have not been exclusively this way toward the racist people, and people who aren't racist have been receiving "punishment" also by being the target of their racist acts / defensiveness. This shit we're seeing in protesting today with innocent people being punished for someone else's crimes did not just spring up suddenly or overnight, it's been going on for YEARS. The only thing different now is the fact that it's more overt and more violent, and more people are involved, and not all of them are even doing this shit to protest. This shit is not just the result of coronavirus lockdown frustrations, it's an escalation of issues that were already happening for a long time.
 

Z Buck McFate

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James Mattis, on the protests:

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort".
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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There is no reverse racism, only racism. There’s no excuse for it anywhere.

Let me disclaim I fully support the peaceful protests occurring and am in no way saying systemic racism doesn’t exist in the USA.

If those protests devolve into riots involving destruction of others’ property, my support ends there. If police are joining protesters in marching, they have my support. #notallcops

if they are lobbing tear gas into peaceful crowds, fuck ‘em. Hockey mask time at that point, time for the protesters to exercise their 2nd Amendment right and fight back. It would be hypocritical to demand they remain peaceful in the face of some of the police tactics that are being used.
 

Jonny

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James Mattis, on the protests:
“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort".

It really is extraordinary. That anyone would continue to support him...that anyone would consider sitting this election out or lament having to vote for "the lesser of two evils" is beyond my understanding. I have always been a blend of conservative and progressive: conservative in that I believe our traditions and institutions are to be cherished and revered as an integral part of our identity, as the current culmination of billions of human-year's of social progress; progressive in that I believe we should always be open to improving the parts of our heritage and institutions that fall short of our evolving ideals. But Trump is the very manifestation of the worst of us, and he leaves no room for nuance. This isn't about lofty ideals or policy disputes. It's about removing a man entirely unfit to hold the office. A man whose very presence on the national stage rots the American soul.

He has hijacked the "conservative" movement and has perverted it into amplifying the very worst parts of us, and characterizing anything counter to his interests as evil or deep state or TDS.

Does anyone know if old politics posts still against somewhere on the forum? Of Trump's initial appointments, I know I was in favor of Mattis. I also liked Mitt Romney in the 2012 election, despite voting for Obama. I wonder what Disco thinks of Mattis given his "fuck Romney" stance... It's almost as though people are being judged not by the content of their character but their allegiance with Trump...but that couldn't possibly be, could it?
 

ceecee

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And if you compare what he's saying to governors (not the protestors, to the governors), it's right from the pages of Freire (on how to be the shittiest authority imaginable) - in direct contrast to how to be the good kind of authority to his base ("listen to the very good people, work out some kind of deal"). With those who aren't his base: Dominate! Show them who's the boss, show them who has absolute authority. You will look weak if you try to listen, just dominate! Just use the military and plow the fuck right over them until they give up and stop even trying to use their voice - even their peaceful voice.

Yes exactly and he is getting advised by the absolute worst right wingers with serious revenge (imagined or otherwise) fetishes. Jim Mattis speaking to the media isn't going to do much except for the military maybe. Jim Mattis walking with protesters - might. That's where most of these people remain tone deaf. But it's better than remaining silent too.

The police are going to crush everyone at this point, it doesn't matter who. Cops protect the wealthy and their property. That's what they have done since their beginnings, they do not protect the regular everyday people and their interests.

Communities need to focus energy and money on the community, the poverty, the physical and the mental health. Egalitarian. Anti-racist. Humane. Decent. Pluralist. Nonviolent. Bottom-up. Just. Hopeful. Communal. Nothing less.
 

Red Memories

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I'm just gonna say regardless.

I don't know why it is okay to say you practically don't want police. There's a difference between wanting reform of the system so police are accountable, not militarized, and work more to help and saying literally "fuck the police" "defund the police" and complaining about patrolling. That just sounds like you want the police not to come down and hold anyone accountable for breaking the law either. Something like anarchy or doing whatever the fuck you want. That isn't an answer either.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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Yes, but 'reverse-racism' is a word being used to summarize a process involved in racism, a process by which racism is exacerbated or manifests.

It carries a conditionality that isn't necessary. The term itself becomes racist, particularly in the context people tend to use it.
 

Mind Maverick

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It carries a conditionality that isn't necessary. The term itself becomes racist, particularly in the context people tend to use it.
...I must be using it differently than other people then. I have no clue how other people use it. I'm just referring to people pushing back against racism with more racism. In hindsight, it was a dumb way to use the word. I was referring to the way the situation reverses.
 

Red Memories

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It carries a conditionality that isn't necessary. The term itself becomes racist, particularly in the context people tend to use it.

Is it really though? The only context I've heard it in is quite literally, since the blacks and etc. are oppressed by whites they cannot in fact ever be racist so reverse racism therefore does not exist.

and I find that pretty illogical, that just because they are of color, they cannot be racist. Because anyone of any color can be a racist.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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Is it really though? The only context I've heard it in is quite literally, since the blacks and etc. are oppressed by whites they cannot in fact ever be racist so reverse racism therefore does not exist.

and I find that pretty illogical, that just because they are of color, they cannot be racist. Because anyone of any color can be a racist.

The problem with people using that term to say it can't exist is exactly one reason it itself is a racist term (though if you go back farther, the term itself was first popularized by white conservatives like Rush Limbaugh). It implies some special status for blacks, and even if the intent were argued to be positive, that is still a dehumanizing approach because it relies on a distinction between or discriminating view of people of different shades. Racism is racism. We can explore varying reasons for why members of various demographics act or feel in racist manners, but adding the "reverse" prefix is not only pointless, it only tends to muddy dialogues or outright kill discussions on race relations (as you yourself point out in critiquing those on the left who use the term to shut down accusations of black racism). I disagree with both lefties and righties who use the term, even if their intent and purpose in using the term might vary.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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...I must be using it differently than other people then. I have no clue how other people use it. I'm just referring to people pushing back against racism with more racism. In hindsight, it was a dumb way to use the word. I was referring to the way the situation reverses.

It's a silly, superfluous, unnecessary prefix. If two fires are moving from opposite sides of a valley toward a town in the center, no one refers to one of the fires as "reverse fire"
 

Red Memories

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Thanks for the input. Was not aware of the history of that term. :)
 

The Cat

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Ferrari, Blue Steel, Le Tigre; They're all the same look; does nobody else see this?
dd1d09282dc5878982d8efe6aacc23b3.jpg
 

ceecee

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I'm just gonna say regardless.

I don't know why it is okay to say you practically don't want police. There's a difference between wanting reform of the system so police are accountable, not militarized, and work more to help and saying literally "fuck the police" "defund the police" and complaining about patrolling. That just sounds like you want the police not to come down and hold anyone accountable for breaking the law either. Something like anarchy or doing whatever the fuck you want. That isn't an answer either.


Abolishing The U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) Excess Property 1033 program

1033 program - Wikipedia


Direct democracy at the community level

Reducing crime is not about social control. It’s not about cops, and it’s not a bait-and-switch with another callous institution. It’s giving people a sense of purpose. Communities that have tools to engage with each other about problems and disputes don’t have to consider what to do after anti-social behaviors are exhibited in the first place. A more healthy political culture where people feel more involved is a powerful building block to a less violent world.

Real mental-healthcare

In 2012, Mayor Rahm Emanuel closed up the last trauma clinics in some of Chicago’s most violent neighborhoods. In New York, Rikers Island jails as many people with mental illnesses “as all 24 psychiatric hospitals in New York State combined,” which is reportedly 40 percent of the people jailed at Rikers. We have created a tremendous amount of mental illness, and in the real debt and austerity dystopia we’re living in, we have refused to treat each other for our physical and mental wounds. Mental health has often been a trapdoor for other forms of institutionalized social control as bad as any prison, but shifting toward preventative, supportive, and independent living care can help keep those most impacted from ending up in handcuffs or dead on the street.

Restorative Justice

Also known as reparative or transformative justice, these models represent an alternative to courts and jails. From hippie communes to the IRA and anti-Apartheid South African guerrillas to even some U.S. cities like Philadelphia’s experiment with community courts, spaces are created where accountability is understood as a community issue and the entire community, along with the so-called perpetrator and the victim of a given offense, try to restore and even transform everyone in the process. It has also been used uninterrupted by indigenous and Afro-descendant communities like San Basilio de Palenque in Colombia for centuries, and it remains perhaps the most widespread and far-reaching of the alternatives to the adversarial court system.

The decriminalization of almost every nonviolent crime

What is considered criminal is something too often debated only in critical criminology seminars, and too rarely in the mainstream. Violent offenses count for a fraction of the 11 to 14 million arrests every year, and yet there is no real conversation about what constitutes a crime and what permits society to put a person in chains and a cage. Decriminalization doesn’t work on its own: The cannabis trade that used to employ poor Blacks, Latinos, indigenous and poor whites in its distribution is now starting to be monopolized by already-rich landowners. That means that wide-scale decriminalization will need to come with economic programs and community projects. To quote investigative journalist Christian Parenti’s remarks on criminal justice reform in his book Lockdown America, what we really need most of all is “less.”

Unarmed mediation and intervention teams

Unarmed but trained people, often formerly violent offenders themselves, patrolling their neighborhoods to curb violence right where it starts. This is real and it exists in cities from Detroit to Los Angeles. Stop believing that police are heroes because they are the only ones willing to get in the way of knives or guns — so are the members of groups like Cure Violence, who were the subject of the 2012 documentary The Interrupters. There are also feminist models that specifically organize patrols of local women, who reduce everything from cat-calling and partner violence to gang murders in places like Brooklyn. While police forces have benefited from military-grade weapons and equipment, some of the most violent neighborhoods have found success through peace rather than war.
 
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