The Murder of George Floyd & Subsequent Protests/Riots

[Z Buck McFate]

Expounding on the "big ships are sinking the smaller ships and getting the smaller ships to blame it on someone else" tangent:

 

[Jonny]

Paywall. Also - WaPo Opinions. But most people will never read beyond the headline either.

I was the woman surrounded by BLM protesters at a D.C. restaurant. Here’s why I didn’t raise my fist.

Why didn’t I just raise my fist?

Last week, I went out to dinner in D.C. with a friend. As we sat outside at a neighborhood restaurant, a group of protesters surrounded our table and demanded that I raise my fist in support of the Black Lives Matter movement. I had marched repeatedly in the past several months in support of their cause, but I refused their demands. That interaction wound up in a viral video that within 48 hours had been viewed more than 12 million times.

Most reactions to the video have been favorable toward me, as many commended me for not giving in to the crowd. There is a strong argument that I should quit while I am ahead. But having been there in the moment and, now, having seen reaction to the video, I have a few thoughts to share.

First, let us not lose track of the underlying incident that led to the protest: The day before, a Black man, Jacob Blake, was shot seven times in the back by a police officer in Kenosha, Wis. Blake was paralyzed, possibly permanently, from the waist down. However you try to reconcile the conflicting accounts of the confrontation, seven bullets in the back should not have happened. Too many similar shootings have occurred elsewhere that also should not have happened, and those victims did not come away with their lives.

Second, it is never okay to coerce people’s participation; that is just bullying. To be clear, this is not an argument against anger, expressed loudly, about terrible things that are allowed to happen. My desire is simply to see the vital energy that anger gives rise to be effectively directed to bring about important, lasting change.

As the marchers closed in on our table, I could not see any protest signs. I asked who they were and why they were marching. No one would answer me. Why march and hold back your message? This was not your usual Black Lives Matter protest, or really, any other protest I have attended. Marchers are usually delighted to tell you about their mission.

When they crowded around my table and started demanding that I raise my fist, it was their insistence that I participate in something that I did not understand that led me to withhold my hand. In retrospect, I would have done the same thing even if it was crystal clear to me who they were and what they stood for. If you want my support, ask it of me freely. That’s what we do in a democracy.

The protest video is more of a snapshot than a complete story. The most important thing that you do not see is what happened after. My instincts kept telling me this was not a crowd inclined to perpetuate violence with more violence. In the end, someone said “let’s go,” and the protesters moved on. They were not pleased with me, but I was not hurt in any way. No one ever tried to raise my hand for me or threw so much as a paper straw in my direction.

I offer this because while the protesters’ and my actions have become a kind of global Rorschach test differently interpreted by people across the political spectrum, the original event felt resolutely local. We were having a community conversation.

In the middle of the video, you clearly hear a woman demanding “Are you a Christian?” — a prime Rorschach moment. Some have assumed she meant it accusatorially: I must be a Christian, and that is why I won’t raise my hand. Others assumed the opposite: If I were a good Christian, I would raise my hand. I believe she meant the latter. I answered, “No. Why are you asking me that? How is that relevant?” I never got an answer. The expressions of the protesters around the woman suggested they found the question strange. In all the Black Lives Matter-related events I have attended, this was the only implied religious test I have encountered.

I have actively participated in protests since this event. I have experienced nothing coercive from my fellow protesters, nor toward bystanders. I wholeheartedly support the Black Lives Matter movement; however, I also support an individual’s choice to participate in a protest, or not.

The video looks scary, and, in fact, I felt fear at that moment. But as I scanned the crowd, I also felt great hope and appreciation. This was a group of mostly young people of many racial backgrounds working together to sustain a movement to uphold Black people’s civil rights. There are worse ways to spend a Monday night.​

 

[Red Memories]

Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism

saw story on news last night locally here but this breaks my heart and reminds me why I wouldn't call anyone to handle one of my little siblings meltdowns... Brayden gets very violent and he has absolutely no sense of authority or anything really with his autism.

Bray is 15, my little sister who is also autistic is 13. breaks my heart... We need something better, if nothing else, for them.

 

[Jaguar]

Member of conservative group ran over by leftist following vigil




Looks like a concussion and a brain bleed, which is no joke. I wonder why nobody considers this news.

Because you're posting a link to an extreme far-right shit site whose factual reporting rating is "mixed," at best, because of failing fact-checks. Do you think you can just post shit websites and expect people to take it seriously? Forget it. And the site that first website references, is also is an extreme far-right shit site whose factual rating is even worse than the first one - their factual rating is "low." That means it's not remotely unusual for propaganda and fake news to be posted.

 

[Jonny]

Because you're posting a link to an extreme far-right shit site whose factual reporting rating is "mixed," at best, because of failing fact-checks. Do you think you can just post shit websites and expect people to take it seriously? Forget it. And the site that first website references, is also is an extreme far-right shit site whose factual rating is even worse than the first one - their factual rating is "low." That means it's not remotely unusual for propaganda and fake news to be posted.

He's not above lying to promote his narrative; this has been established. I can't say why he does it, but it's most likely because it feels good to him.

 

[anticlimatic]

Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism

saw story on news last night locally here but this breaks my heart and reminds me why I wouldn't call anyone to handle one of my little siblings meltdowns... Brayden gets very violent and he has absolutely no sense of authority or anything really with his autism.

Bray is 15, my little sister who is also autistic is 13. breaks my heart... We need something better, if nothing else, for them.

I remember back when I worked for HUD taking care of government housing, I was on call one night and had to go and help with a police standoff. You'd think ISIS was holed up in an apartment there- they had the swat truck out, maps of the area drawn on the side of it in white board marker, an entire circus of various law enforcements. For what? The NICEST gen-x era hippie guy- the type of rotund bearded guy to collect books and ornamental sword figurines- who happened to be schizophrenic- was off his meds and having a freak out episode in the hallway. When a cop showed up he got spooked and ran inside his apartment. The cop wanted to talk to him instead. That's it. Ended many hours later with him getting thrown down a flight of stairs and arrested for assaulting an officer after being tricked into opening his door.

Same story again and again- someone calls the cops to help someone, cops show up and fuck them over instead. Because fucking someone over is all cops know. In a domestic dispute they show up to fuck over whoever seems like the lesser victim by arresting them. But when they show up to deal with someone who is victimizing themselves with mental illness, that's the only person available to them to fuck over, so that's how it usually plays out.

Plus law enforcement is kind of a mental illness all it's own. They have a lot in common with the autistic- too much really- so much that almost inheritly clash. Cops have their humanity deliberately deprogrammed for the sake of objectivity- since we don't want the spectre of "good ol boy" cops playing favorites with their buddies.

So how do we balance the necessary aspects of objectivity with the necessary aspects of human connection? It's not so easily solved.

 

[Red Memories]

I remember back when I worked for HUD taking care of government housing, I was on call one night and had to go and help with a police standoff. You'd think ISIS was holed up in an apartment there- they had the swat truck out, maps of the area drawn on the side of it in white board marker, an entire circus of various law enforcements. For what? The NICEST gen-x era hippie guy- the type of rotund bearded guy to collect books and ornamental sword figurines- who happened to be schizophrenic- was off his meds and having a freak out episode in the hallway. When a cop showed up he got spooked and ran inside his apartment. The cop wanted to talk to him instead. That's it. Ended many hours later with him getting thrown down a flight of stairs and arrested for assaulting an officer after being tricked into opening his door.

Same story again and again- someone calls the cops to help someone, cops show up and fuck them over instead. Because fucking someone over is all cops know. In a domestic dispute they show up to fuck over whoever seems like the lesser victim by arresting them. But when they show up to deal with someone who is victimizing themselves with mental illness, that's the only person available to them to fuck over, so that's how it usually plays out.

Plus law enforcement is kind of a mental illness all it's own. They have a lot in common with the autistic- too much really- so much that almost inheritly clash. Cops have their humanity deliberately deprogrammed for the sake of objectivity- since we don't want the spectre of "good ol boy" cops playing favorites with their buddies.

So how do we balance the necessary aspects of objectivity with the necessary aspects of human connection? It's not so easily solved.

ugh that story just breaks my heart. That kind of stuff is just gut wrenching... It sadly is not an easy fix and I wish I had answers...

 

[Z Buck McFate]

DHS Homeland Threat Assessment draft report: Homeland Threats 8 19 2020 Draft

Mentioned among primary anticipated threats to our country in 2021: white supremacist terrorist cells. (And foreign sabotage to our democracy, primarily Russian, but that's a different thread).

Absolutely no mention of Antifa.

 

[anticlimatic]

ugh that story just breaks my heart. That kind of stuff is just gut wrenching... It sadly is not an easy fix and I wish I had answers...

I really like the idea of adding mental health professionals to first responder teams, as discussed earlier. We closed asylums and started putting people with mental illnesses alone with their meds in state housing, but we never added the proverbial asylum warden with a sedative syringe to the first responder list in these "new asylum" housing projects. Instead we just send cops with tasers. I feel like obvious issues with mental health and the system could get wide bipartisan support if anyone was interested in bipartisanship anymore.

 

[Coriolis]

I really like the idea of adding mental health professionals to first responder teams, as discussed earlier. We closed asylums and started putting people with mental illnesses alone with their meds in state housing, but we never added the proverbial asylum warden with a sedative syringe to the first responder list in these "new asylum" housing projects. Instead we just send cops with tasers. I feel like obvious issues with mental health and the system could get wide bipartisan support if anyone was interested in bipartisanship anymore.

You didn't seem so keen on it when I made the suggestion earlier in the thread. Glad you came round. Oh, and about substituing vs. adding money: more money would be great, but even without, we can probably spend what we have to better effect. Say police go on 100 calls during a week, and 15 of them would better be handled by mental health professionals. If we pay MH people to go on those calls instead of cops, we get a better result for the same/similar money, unless you think MH counselors are much more expensive than cops. The problems cops sometimes cause in these situations are a needless drain on community resources, so it may also be a case of penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[anticlimatic]

You didn't seem so keen on it when I made the suggestion earlier in the thread. Glad you came round. Oh, and about substituing vs. adding money: more money would be great, but even without, we can probably spend what we have to better effect. Say police go on 100 calls during a week, and 15 of them would better be handled by mental health professionals. If we pay MH people to go on those calls instead of cops, we get a better result for the same/similar money, unless you think MH counselors are much more expensive than cops. The problems cops sometimes cause in these situations are a needless drain on community resources, so it may also be a case of penny wise and pound foolish.

Come around? My position is the same, and I still find your suggestion regarding it a poor one. Augmentation over substitution. Good cop bad cop. One counselor one cop, with checks and balances on each, as a team. It would cost more money, but unlike most of the ridiculous pork that the left wants to throw money at, this is a situation I wouldn't mind contributing some tax dollars to- and I'm sure many other people on the right would agree. Initially I thought it would be too expensive, but I'm confident we can find enough less necessary spending elsewhere to slash.

Just like we don't want to send a cop to a mostly harmless mentally ill person's house to beat him up, we don't want to send a compassionate social worker to a violet psychopath's house. More often than not, on a first-response what-am-I-getting-into basis, you need all the tools in your toolbox on arrival.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION]
You constantly change all of your positions to whatever pushes peoples buttons and then you accuse them of not being polite. You do it constantly. It's your main point of consistency is your inconsistency.

 

[anticlimatic]

[MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION]
You constantly change all of your positions to whatever pushes peoples buttons and then you accuse them of not being polite. You do it constantly. It's your main point of consistency is your inconsistency.

Disagree. Stay on topic.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

DHS Homeland Threat Assessment draft report: Homeland Threats 8 19 2020 Draft

Mentioned among primary anticipated threats to our country in 2021: white supremacist terrorist cells. (And foreign sabotage to our democracy, primarily Russian, but that's a different thread).

Absolutely no mention of Antifa.

More on this^.

NYT: Whistle-Blower Says D.H.S. Downplayed Threats From Russia and White Supremacists

Brian Murphy, the former head of the intelligence branch of the Homeland Security Department, said in a whistle-blower complaint filed on Tuesday that he was directed by Chad F. Wolf, the acting secretary of the department, to stop producing assessments on Russian interference. The department’s second highest ranked official, Kenneth T. Cuccinelli II, also ordered him to modify intelligence assessments to make the threat of white supremacy “appear less severe” and include information on violent “left-wing” groups, according to the complaint, which was released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee.
​

 

[Coriolis]

You didn't seem so keen on it when I made the suggestion earlier in the thread. Glad you came round. Oh, and about substituing vs. adding money: more money would be great, but even without, we can probably spend what we have to better effect. Say police go on 100 calls during a week, and 15 of them would better be handled by mental health professionals. If we pay MH people to go on those calls instead of cops, we get a better result for the same/similar money, unless you think MH counselors are much more expensive than cops. The problems cops sometimes cause in these situations are a needless drain on community resources, so it may also be a case of penny wise and pound foolish.

Come around? My position is the same, and I still find your suggestion regarding it a poor one. Augmentation over substitution. Good cop bad cop. One counselor one cop, with checks and balances on each, as a team. It would cost more money, but unlike most of the ridiculous pork that the left wants to throw money at, this is a situation I wouldn't mind contributing some tax dollars to- and I'm sure many other people on the right would agree. Initially I thought it would be too expensive, but I'm confident we can find enough less necessary spending elsewhere to slash.

Just like we don't want to send a cop to a mostly harmless mentally ill person's house to beat him up, we don't want to send a compassionate social worker to a violet psychopath's house. More often than not, on a first-response what-am-I-getting-into basis, you need all the tools in your toolbox on arrival.

I see you missed the highlighted. I bet most folks would support additional spending to augment police with mental health professionals, as long as it is available. No need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here, though. As I explained, we can substitute mental health responders when that is appropriate, reducing the workoad on cops. Often cops work with partners, so a team of one cop and one MH responder would go instead of 2 cops. The incident just related involved an entire SWAT team if I read correctly, a much larger expense, wasted on the wrong sort of incident. If that is how police departments customarily respond to incidents, it's no wonder funding is short.

Disagree. Stay on topic.

Comments about the way someone is addressing the topic are fair game, especially if it speaks to the effect of someone's manner or methods on the overall discussion. If that tangent persists for more than a couple posts, it should be split off.

 

[anticlimatic]

I see you missed the highlighted. I bet most folks would support additional spending to augment police with mental health professionals, as long as it is available. No need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here, though. As I explained, we can substitute mental health responders when that is appropriate, reducing the workoad on cops. Often cops work with partners, so a team of one cop and one MH responder would go instead of 2 cops. The incident just related involved an entire SWAT team if I read correctly, a much larger expense, wasted on the wrong sort of incident. If that is how police departments customarily respond to incidents, it's no wonder funding is short.

The first responder in my incident was a single police officer. The SWAT circus that followed was predicated on his initial failure. I think the bolded would be a good idea, and might have prevented it, but I don't think it can be adequately known in advance which type of first response should be sent in- so I don't think sharing resources would work as policy, as I've always stated. The bugger of the first response is that there is often very little initial data to work with, so you have to go in with the most efficient means of addressing the most diverse range of possibilities; an objective officer to maintain a ridged and safe structure of events, and a counselor of some kind with a more bending and subjective touch- to know, hopefully, when to bend and give to avoid a situation snapping out of control via too much rigidity. If police departments have room in their budgets to make this happen by cutting out some of their own pork, that would be the most ideal path- but the rise in violent crime as of late, and the fact that the only available evidence of reducing that crime overall is more police, I think it's safe to say that the wisest approach would be to increase police funding overall- for mental health augmentation, and for more and higher quality- better trained- officers. Like I said, I thought initially that the theory was a good one and would work, but would be too expensive- but the more I see of these endless riots, and the more examples I see of cops being dipshits screwing over people with mental illnesses, the more I feel that it would be worth the investment. I'm sure there's plenty of money elsewhere that can be diverted.

Comments about the way someone is addressing the topic are fair game, especially if it speaks to the effect of someone's manner or methods on the overall discussion. If that tangent persists for more than a couple posts, it should be split off.

This is very stupid policy- no offense. Do you want people to discuss topics, or bicker at and about each other? I'm not playing these silly games anymore, but if you want to make sure that lane is open for threads to devolve into petty ad hominem sniping so admins have something to lecture at once in a while be my guest. I'm staying out of it.

 

[The Cat]

I want to believe when I hear promises made, but these days...I tend to doubt them...

 

[The Cat]

As someone who grew up in the country around other country folk. I think about this a lot. I wonder if any of my fellow country cousins on forum ever think about it too...

 

[anticlimatic]

BLM mob chants '''we hope they die''' outside LA hospital where two cops are in critical condition | The Post Millennial


Charming.