The False Self and the Integrated Self

[Mole]

I have trouble addressing the false self on Central.

The first trouble I have is in recognising that I am addressing a false self rather than an integrated self.

This is compounded by the fact that the false self is normal on Central, and encouraged on Central.

And no acknowledgement is made that the integrated self is more desirable than the false self.

But worse many of us live in and work in environments where a false self is required, such as retail sales, the service industry, and interestingly, in school.

I suppose what strikes me is that there is no revolt against the culture of the false self. This is ironic as the false self fancies itself as independent, individual, and even revolutionary, but there is absolutely no revolt against the false self.

And mbti is the codification of the false self.

The false self is functional and acceptable and smothers the possibility of the integrated self.

And of course The Catcher in the Rye by J.D.Salinger addresses the false self.

And I myself have seen the false self successfully addressed in an encounter group at the University of New South Wales.

It requires moral courage, persistence, and an integrated personality to lead the group.

 

[á´…eparted]

I have trouble addressing the false self on Central.

The reason you have trouble is because you almost always sound like you're talking down to people. A lot of the time you're making an attempt and point to do so. People aren't going to listen to that morally superior tone that you often make. You also often speak in an indirect, passive aggressive manner that is extremely off putting, hard for people to understand, and can have so many meanings that it appears to allow you to twist it in whatever is convienent for you. It's clear you have agendas to push and you've even openly stated them in the past. Much of them, are not conductive to this forum and the people on it.

Your problem is your delivery. If you actually wanted to make the changes you so actively seem to persue, then you need to consider who your audience is, and adjust yourself accordingly so they get what you seek to aim for. You never seem to do that ever. As such, you shouldn't expect many people, in particular the one that you want to listen to you, to actually get anywhere. Your history shows that you're extremely consistent in your delivery, and you've said in the past that you have no desire to change this.

Because of this, you won't ever get through to people. I wonder if you even want to.

 

[BadOctopus]

Oy, it's always something. So in addition to being psychologically damaged, we're all a bunch of phonies, as well? Sorry we're not real enough for you, Mole.

If that is your real name.

 

[Cygnus]

I sure wish I had the ability to use these "masks" you speak of in real life. Maybe people wouldn't give me the shit they do now, all talking down to me like I'm some invalid who needs their help, projecting their bullshit onto me. Instead you can take me apart with one look at me and it's damn annoying so you probably don't know what you're talking about.


I'd upload and post videos of myself talking so you guys could understand who you're talking to but I'm not currently allowed.

 

[Mole]

Je suis Charlie

The reason you have trouble is because you almost always sound like you're talking down to people. A lot of the time you're making an attempt and point to do so. People aren't going to listen to that morally superior tone that you often make. You also often speak in an indirect, passive aggressive manner that is extremely off putting, hard for people to understand, and can have so many meanings that it appears to allow you to twist it in whatever is convienent for you. It's clear you have agendas to push and you've even openly stated them in the past. Much of them, are not conductive to this forum and the people on it.

Your problem is your delivery. If you actually wanted to make the changes you so actively seem to persue, then you need to consider who your audience is, and adjust yourself accordingly so they get what you seek to aim for. You never seem to do that ever. As such, you shouldn't expect many people, in particular the one that you want to listen to you, to actually get anywhere. Your history shows that you're extremely consistent in your delivery, and you've said in the past that you have no desire to change this.

Because of this, you won't ever get through to people. I wonder if you even want to.

Don't be silly. I am offensive because there is no free speech without the right to offend.

So naturally I stand with Charlie Hebdo and free speech.

Je suis Charlie.

 

[Mole]

The Personality and the Person

I sure wish I had the ability to use these "masks" you speak of in real life. Maybe people wouldn't give me the shit they do now, all talking down to me like I'm some invalid who needs their help, projecting their bullshit onto me. Instead you can take me apart with one look at me and it's damn annoying so you probably don't know what you're talking about.

I'd upload and post videos of myself talking so you guys could understand who you're talking to but I'm not currently allowed.

It's true, if we have a good personality, we will be accepted in society.

And a personality is our way of interacting successfully with society. And those without a good personality are made to suffer by society.

Such a society demands a tradable personality to increase our social capital. Our personality is our way of selling ourselves.

If we have a good personality, the danger is that we identify with our personality.

And by identifying with our personality, we neglect to individuate, we neglect to integrate our psyche, and so become an absurd braying personality.

We become a personality rather than a person.

And mbti is ruthlessly determined to turn you into a personality. And I guess that's why you are here.

 

[á´…eparted]

Don't be silly. I am offensive because there is no free speech without the right to offend.

So naturally I stand with Charlie Hebdo and free speech.

Je suis Charlie.

I assure you, I am not being the least bit silly. So, your whole purpose is to be offensive, tick people off, and have no care if people actually receive your message or not? There's a word for that you know: Trolling.

 

[Coriolis]

And of course The Catcher in the Rye by J.D.Salinger addresses the false self.

Perhaps this explains why I have always disliked that book.

Don't be silly. I am offensive because there is no free speech without the right to offend.

So naturally I stand with Charlie Hebdo and free speech.

Je suis Charlie.

You may have the right to free offensive speech, but others have the right to free critical speech, namely to criticize the things you say that offend them. If you are unhappy with this bargain, I'm sure you know what your options are.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

Never read The Catcher in the Rye but once I read Dear Mr. Henshaw and it made me cry so hard.

In general I tend to stick to classical literature like translating the Old Testament from Hebrew and Greek (false self) or Don Quixote (Integrated Self).

By any chance have you ever tried dressing like a woman? I have often sat on a rock by the beaten path, off by the way side on the cold lake shore, peering into the horizon during a brilliant sun rise as the dawn stretched her fingers out across the sky, and wondered what it would be like to dress as a woman. (false self or integrated self, you be the judge, jury, and gavel).

 

[Pionart]

Mole is an insane cult leader and he's a total mole.\

I'm just kidding.

 

[Mole]

It's becoming plain that many here only present a false self. This is no good for them and no good for us. And unfortunately mbti encouraged the false self. So I have decided to put all those who only present a false self here on Ignore. I don't want to be party to this travesty, particularly as most of them are psychologically exploited school children.

 

[Jaguar]

The false self is functional and acceptable and smothers the possibility of the integrated self.

The "false" self is still part of the whole. And while it may delay integration (especially if one is not conscious of its existence) I still think the possibility of an integrated self is there. I look at the MBTI as merely a pitstop on the road to integration, Victor.

 

[Mole]

The "false" self is still part of the whole. And while it may delay integration (especially if one is not conscious of its existence) I still think the possibility of an integrated self is there. I look at the MBTI as merely a pitstop on the road to integration, Victor.

I also take a developmental approach, Jaguar.

But here the false self is relentlessly presented without interpretation or reflection. So there is no possibility to develop an integrated self.

And unfortunately there are adults running Typology Central but they do not take responsibility for the development of immature members.

So the question comes down to: do we want to be part of the psychological exploitation of school children?

 

[Jaguar]

I also take a developmental approach, Jaguar.

But here the false self is relentlessly presented without interpretation or reflection.
So there is no possibility to develop an integrated self.

If I can read some of the same drivel you do in this forum and still develop an integrated self, there is indeed a possibility. You're assuming what goes on in this forum affects everyone the same way. I do not make that assumption. I know there are smart kids out there who can visit with the MBTI for awhile, not take it as some bizarre religion, throw it away, and become whole. I've spoken with them, so I know they exist. Do I think a lot of nonsense gets posted? Absolutely. But it's all part of a larger process, eh? It takes time to unfold.

And unfortunately there are adults running Typology Central but they do not take responsibility for the development of immature members.

It's not their job. (Thankfully, I might add.) My development is my job; your development is your job.

So the question comes down to: do we want to be part of the psychological exploitation of school children?

The "school children" need to hold themselves accountable. When I was in college (okay, a lifetime ago) I was one of a handful who passed a peer pressure test in an experiment conducted by the Psych Dept. Basically, they exerted more pressure on you to see if you would cave in from the opinions of others. I didn't cave in, I became more resolute as more pressure was piled on. Perhaps one could view all this as one, giant peer pressure test. Try looking at it that way rather than referring to all of it as exploitation. If a kid needs someone else to break their chains, what have they really gained? Nothing. They need to break the chains on their own. Development is personal.

 

[Cygnus]

Mole is an insane cult leader and he's a total mole.\

I'm just kidding.

A cult leader implies you have people who can stand to be around you.

 

[BadOctopus]

Perhaps this explains why I have always disliked that book.

Holden Caulfield is the whiniest, most insufferable little bitch in the history of literature. He calls everyone "phonies", and yet fails to realize that everything about him is an affectation: his superiority, his disdain for others, and even his fashion statement with his trademark red hunting cap. It's all a facade to hide the fact that he's just a very insecure little boy.

If Mole really regards Holden Caulfield as a character worth emulating, he might want to look harder.

 

[miss fortune]

who are you to decide what self is true and which is false? are we not multifaceted beings?

 

[Coriolis]

who are you to decide what self is true and which is false? are we not multifaceted beings?

When a character is presented it literature, it is fair game for the reader to make such decisions. Even the author's intent cannot override the multitude of impressions others may take from it.

 

[miss fortune]

When a character is presented it literature, it is fair game for the reader to make such decisions. Even the author's intent cannot override the multitude of impressions others may take from it.

not talking about Catcher in the Rye (or a study in douche-ism for minors)

talking to mole about non-fictional characters

 

[á´…eparted]

It's becoming plain that many here only present a false self. This is no good for them and no good for us. And unfortunately mbti encouraged the false self. So I have decided to put all those who only present a false self here on Ignore. I don't want to be party to this travesty, particularly as most of them are psychologically exploited school children.

This is kind of hilarious. Putting people on ignore because they challenge your world views, and don't put up with your trollish discussions. It's totally in your right to do so, and people put people on ignore all the time for all kinds of reasons. Still, I mean, it's also presented as an insult like you're trying to upset people and make them feel bad, so it's pretty much a temper tantrum of "WAH! People are challenging me! So I am going to publicly announce that I am ignoring them! Look, look! Look how much I am actively ignoring these people I don't like".

Let's see how long this last. You told me weeks ago you put me on ignore. You still reply to me. If you assume putting people on ignore is going to stop or dissuade them from expression opinions about what you say and or challenging your assertions, you would be sorely mistaken.