Mal12345
Permabanned
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 14,532
- MBTI Type
- IxTP
- Enneagram
- 5w4
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
I've spent the last few years, now and then, considering the problem of the dominant-tertiary "loop," looking for evidence to take from reality and build into a theory. But the evidence and the theory isn't forthcoming, so far. And then there is the egregious error found here:
Dominant-Tertiary Loops and Common Personality Disorders
I've posted my response to the OP on that thread, but I'll also post it here. Those who aren't familiar with simulatedworld's theory should first read the first post in the link posted above.
My response is as follows -
[quoting Simulatedworld on the Ti-Si loop]
That statement doesn't prove in the slightest the OP's thesis that personality imbalances are "caused" by these so-called loops. It explicitly states that the Si-tertiary of the INTP (which is my type) reinforces the Fe-inferior's dislike of social rituals; it doesn't show that Si-tert is more highly "valued" than the Ne-auxiliary. I'm not saying that Si-tert doesn't play a role in an already-existing disorder, I'm only saying that it doesn't cause the disorder as the OP stated.
Could the existence of a dom-tert loop lead to mistyping? Perhaps, but I've only seen this wherever someone was trying to determine someone's type using dom-tert theory itself by first assuming that a loop exists.
I personally use a very eclectic method of determining someone's type.
As for the actual role that the tertiary takes, think of a function stacking as taking the path of least resistance. The tertiary is the function that "plays" better with the inferior and the dominant functions than do the other functions. For the INTP, Si-tert adds a curmudgeonly element to the personality that plays well with the Fe-inferior and by logical extension with the Ti-dominant.
While the INFP shares the Si-tert with the INTP, the effect on the overall personality is different because the inferior type differs. The Si-tert of the INFP type adds resistance to Te which is inferior, i.e., resistance to external authority, to being dominated, and a feeling of exemption from rules which the INFP considers to be authoritarian in nature. When the INFP puts his or her foot down in an effort to resist obedience to unwanted authority, that is a sign of Si-tertiary at work. Ne-aux will then view this authority in wider, conceptual terms, for example, "there's something wrong with a society which allows" such and such. And so the Ne-aux creates a bridge between a short term personal problem and an alleged wider social problem.
The ENFP and INFP types can seem to be similar on the outside. But the INFP feels an angry helplessness that arises from viewing these problems as large and overwhelming, as Ne-aux balloons all tiny manageable problems into major crises and world problems, while the ENFP mentally keeps them on a manageable level and sees social problems as having solutions to strive toward due to the influence of its Te-tertiary. The latter adds an inflated sense of "doing something" even if that "something" is just parading around with a political sign having to do with Si-inferior sentiments. A present-day example of this anti-symbolism would be taking down the confederate flag from public display, the flag being an Si-symbol of a long-dead past which is kept alive via the symbolic flag. Such an act has a major psychological influence on the Si-inferior; but to those of us who don't have it, the symbolism involved is a meaningless, objectively illogical gesture whose effect is psychologically distorted out of all proportion to the act itself.
(To be continued - maybe!)
Dominant-Tertiary Loops and Common Personality Disorders
I've posted my response to the OP on that thread, but I'll also post it here. Those who aren't familiar with simulatedworld's theory should first read the first post in the link posted above.
My response is as follows -
[quoting Simulatedworld on the Ti-Si loop]
Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?"
That statement doesn't prove in the slightest the OP's thesis that personality imbalances are "caused" by these so-called loops. It explicitly states that the Si-tertiary of the INTP (which is my type) reinforces the Fe-inferior's dislike of social rituals; it doesn't show that Si-tert is more highly "valued" than the Ne-auxiliary. I'm not saying that Si-tert doesn't play a role in an already-existing disorder, I'm only saying that it doesn't cause the disorder as the OP stated.
Could the existence of a dom-tert loop lead to mistyping? Perhaps, but I've only seen this wherever someone was trying to determine someone's type using dom-tert theory itself by first assuming that a loop exists.
I personally use a very eclectic method of determining someone's type.
As for the actual role that the tertiary takes, think of a function stacking as taking the path of least resistance. The tertiary is the function that "plays" better with the inferior and the dominant functions than do the other functions. For the INTP, Si-tert adds a curmudgeonly element to the personality that plays well with the Fe-inferior and by logical extension with the Ti-dominant.
While the INFP shares the Si-tert with the INTP, the effect on the overall personality is different because the inferior type differs. The Si-tert of the INFP type adds resistance to Te which is inferior, i.e., resistance to external authority, to being dominated, and a feeling of exemption from rules which the INFP considers to be authoritarian in nature. When the INFP puts his or her foot down in an effort to resist obedience to unwanted authority, that is a sign of Si-tertiary at work. Ne-aux will then view this authority in wider, conceptual terms, for example, "there's something wrong with a society which allows" such and such. And so the Ne-aux creates a bridge between a short term personal problem and an alleged wider social problem.
The ENFP and INFP types can seem to be similar on the outside. But the INFP feels an angry helplessness that arises from viewing these problems as large and overwhelming, as Ne-aux balloons all tiny manageable problems into major crises and world problems, while the ENFP mentally keeps them on a manageable level and sees social problems as having solutions to strive toward due to the influence of its Te-tertiary. The latter adds an inflated sense of "doing something" even if that "something" is just parading around with a political sign having to do with Si-inferior sentiments. A present-day example of this anti-symbolism would be taking down the confederate flag from public display, the flag being an Si-symbol of a long-dead past which is kept alive via the symbolic flag. Such an act has a major psychological influence on the Si-inferior; but to those of us who don't have it, the symbolism involved is a meaningless, objectively illogical gesture whose effect is psychologically distorted out of all proportion to the act itself.
(To be continued - maybe!)