HongDou
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- Joined
- Nov 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,190
- MBTI Type
- ENFP
- Enneagram
- 6w7
- Instinctual Variant
- so/sx
Back here just to make a few comments.
I think this "she's got style" argument for Tay being an Se-dom just doesn't hold water imho. Se can be so much more than just knowing what's aesthetically pleasing and seeing "what is" - I used to think the same tho. Se is Pe - it's experiential and experimental in its own way. It can manifest in the way Mariah Carey revolutionized (or popularized at the very least) mainstream pop music incorporating hip-hop and rap influences to stimulate herself creatively, it can manifest in the way Nicki Minaj wore wacky outfits and created various alter egos to put herself in the spotlight and consequently break herself down and show the audience what she could really do and who she really was with The Pinkprint, or it can even manifest in the way Kelly Clarkson dips her toes into a plethora of musical genres when doing live performances because she doesn't like to pigeonhole herself. Not that other types can't do these things or arrive at these conclusions, but the rationale behind it is what's different.
Taylor has style for sure. Specifically I love the ensemble she wore at the 2015 Billboard Music Awards. But I think if that can be linked to anything it's possibly to 3 - her outfits are conventionally appealing but not boring and her new music is pop but not sugar-coated annoying bubblegum pop. Taylor is smacked right in the sweet spot between what's popular/well-liked and what's impressive/respectable (and no these categories aren't always or even often mutually exclusive) and, personally, I have a feeling she knows it. Like [MENTION=7991]chickpea[/MENTION] said she's a very smart businesswoman and she definitely knows how to market herself. Obviously this isn't all to say she doesn't have as much substance as the people I mentioned above as every type of style has merit, but Taylor's seems more out of preference for wanting to be received positively by others.
Side rant, my one problem with her is that her new feminist image seems to be only an image. From defending Lena Dunham to not acknowledging racism against black women after Nicki Minaj tried to point it out to her, she can use "supporting all girls" as a blanketing tactic to cover up real issues that feminists are trying to talk about. But I am sure she's well-intentioned so hopefully if she keeps lending an ear to feminist issues she'll learn over time who she should be defending and supporting and who she shouldn't.
And to me this actually seems more like a Pe sentiment (in this case, Se) than Ni...which is funny because I'm the one who doesn't think she's a Pe-dom.
But if anything says spontaneous, free-form creative processes to me it's Pe.
Putting aside the fact that lots of people write movies, music, etc about their own individual circumstances, if anything this seems more like Si to me. I think [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] said to me recently that country music itself is very Si as a genre and it makes sense since it's almost entirely about the meaning attached to past experience and how they affect the present.
I mean, in the end we have no real way of knowing Taylor's type but I stand by ESFJ for her. Sorry if this is basically all blabble but those are my thoughts on her and ESFPness.
I think this "she's got style" argument for Tay being an Se-dom just doesn't hold water imho. Se can be so much more than just knowing what's aesthetically pleasing and seeing "what is" - I used to think the same tho. Se is Pe - it's experiential and experimental in its own way. It can manifest in the way Mariah Carey revolutionized (or popularized at the very least) mainstream pop music incorporating hip-hop and rap influences to stimulate herself creatively, it can manifest in the way Nicki Minaj wore wacky outfits and created various alter egos to put herself in the spotlight and consequently break herself down and show the audience what she could really do and who she really was with The Pinkprint, or it can even manifest in the way Kelly Clarkson dips her toes into a plethora of musical genres when doing live performances because she doesn't like to pigeonhole herself. Not that other types can't do these things or arrive at these conclusions, but the rationale behind it is what's different.
Taylor has style for sure. Specifically I love the ensemble she wore at the 2015 Billboard Music Awards. But I think if that can be linked to anything it's possibly to 3 - her outfits are conventionally appealing but not boring and her new music is pop but not sugar-coated annoying bubblegum pop. Taylor is smacked right in the sweet spot between what's popular/well-liked and what's impressive/respectable (and no these categories aren't always or even often mutually exclusive) and, personally, I have a feeling she knows it. Like [MENTION=7991]chickpea[/MENTION] said she's a very smart businesswoman and she definitely knows how to market herself. Obviously this isn't all to say she doesn't have as much substance as the people I mentioned above as every type of style has merit, but Taylor's seems more out of preference for wanting to be received positively by others.
Side rant, my one problem with her is that her new feminist image seems to be only an image. From defending Lena Dunham to not acknowledging racism against black women after Nicki Minaj tried to point it out to her, she can use "supporting all girls" as a blanketing tactic to cover up real issues that feminists are trying to talk about. But I am sure she's well-intentioned so hopefully if she keeps lending an ear to feminist issues she'll learn over time who she should be defending and supporting and who she shouldn't.
And to me this actually seems more like a Pe sentiment (in this case, Se) than Ni...which is funny because I'm the one who doesn't think she's a Pe-dom.
But if anything says spontaneous, free-form creative processes to me it's Pe.Putting aside the fact that lots of people write movies, music, etc about their own individual circumstances, if anything this seems more like Si to me. I think [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] said to me recently that country music itself is very Si as a genre and it makes sense since it's almost entirely about the meaning attached to past experience and how they affect the present.
I mean, in the end we have no real way of knowing Taylor's type but I stand by ESFJ for her. Sorry if this is basically all blabble but those are my thoughts on her and ESFPness.
But yeah...I'd take Taylor over Ariana at this point, although musically both of them are underwhelming to me.
