[sx] Sx first, initiate first?

[Forever]

Is anything creepy going on in this thread? I haven't read it so I thought I would just ask.

People making an equivocation fallacy?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Is anything creepy going on in this thread? I haven't read it so I thought I would just ask.

Your avatar

:hi:

 

[Neokortex]

You're right - I do crave it. And I cannot control it. Hence, I get my fix from new people. People I encounter, who I meet and find intriguing. And whose rejection won't hurt nearly as much as the person I'm with, nor risk an important relationship by being a constant nag for attention.

When I see my partner come in through the door, I know which mood he is in. And usually, especially while living together and he sees me every day and he comes home from work, with a ton of meetings, he's not in a people mood. So do I jump his bones and get shot down? No...I wait to see when he's actually focused on me. If he has energy for that tonight. And even then, I'll hint I'm open to more, but I dont want to take away from what he wants to do that evening. If that happens to be me..thats great. These days, I do insist in at least physical contact, if not mental focus, in order for us to actually not live like roommates next to each other - an easy trap to fall into. Since we both share Touch as our love language, it keeps us connected and feeling loved by the other.

And you could argue, this is even more of a factor when you're still in a young relationship, because it's still fragile and you don't want to put pressure on them. Besides, its nice to know that they're still desiring you and are into you, instead of feeling like you're asking for their attention all the time. And so, it becomes a habit to let them initiate it. It's like having a higher sex drive, in a way. You're always up for more intimacy, so you follow their pace instead

Like I said, I try to match what the other person is putting out, because what I put out naturally tends to be too much for anyone to take on board

Well... yeah. Sounds like you hit it off with an... INTJ?? DDD
The focus I gave the thread is initiation, rather to strangers. Perhaps I should've added *strangers* or *when you're looking for a relationship* in the topic starter. You might as well have started with relating on how direct you were with him or really, the course of events and the person you were the most daring with at initiating. The premise is that people are not initiative on the forums Sx-dom-like bc they keep misunderstanding instinct descriptions.

 

[Amargith]

Well... yeah. Sounds like you hit it off with an... INTJ?? DDD
The focus I gave the thread is initiation, rather to strangers. Perhaps I should've added *strangers* or *when you're looking for a relationship* in the topic starter. You might as well have started with relating on how direct you were with him or really, the course of events and the person you were the most daring with at initiating. The premise is that people are not initiative on the forums Sx-dom-like bc they keep misunderstanding instinct descriptions.

Grin. I did.

I honestly haven't read the entire thread, only the posts where you quoted me, and one other by another member. My bad if this went in a different direction than you intended

 

[Neokortex]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]

Okay, people, in case the intro was misleading:

This thread is about checking if ones indicating Sx-first really have the theory right. And also, checking the theory: how far women can go with intiating to strange men? Say, a bar, a café, a library, and you're having a dry spell and out of options from your friends circle. How daring can you get, to open up to or have a stranger open up to you? And IRL stuff, not tinder, forum, chat. I wanna read stories about penetration, risk taking, riding the waves. Like I'm an introvert an awkward in groups but I'm left to my own devices so I gotta have my eyes open for girls and approach them bc they're not coming to me for sure, no matter how Sx-dom they think they are on the forums...

 

[Amargith]

.... err...sx-dom is not about necessarily about physical intimacy. It's about one-on-one connection, period. In any way, shape or form.

I go all the way on an emotional one-night stand.

Rare to find a guy though who's up for that on the first date - though ive persuaded my share over the years

Access to my body requires you survive the emotional one-night stand process, first.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]

Okay, people, in case the intro was misleading:

This thread is about checking if ones indicating Sx-first really have the theory right. And also, checking the theory: how far women can go with intiating to strange men? Say, a bar, a café, a library, and you're having a dry spell and out of options from your friends circle. How daring can you get, to open up to or have a stranger open up to you? And IRL stuff, not tinder, forum, chat. I wanna read stories about penetration, risk taking, riding the waves. Like I'm an introvert an awkward in groups but I'm left to my own devices so I gotta have my eyes open for girls and approach them bc they're not coming to me for sure, no matter how Sx-dom they think they are on the forums...

It sounds as if you are combining the theory with behavior that isn't connected to it. It sounds as though you want to know the answer to this question:

"Women, what makes you approach a man to get to know him - and if you do initiate that act, what keeps interest maintained?"

A lot of this is going to be physical attractiveness. Like...99%. This goes for men and women who are strangers, as if people are blank slates of personality, it only makes sense that the first hurdle that gets crossed is the most superficial.

 

[Luv Deluxe]

Uhuh... Uhuh, some crazy extroverts, uhuh, that's normal... Se junkies...

It's kinda weird. I'm not quite an extrovert with people (unless I've found someone particularly interesting and Sx has taken the wheel), but I'm an extrovert with experiences/sensory input. I can go to large events without a buddy because I like being in observer mode, and I still gain pleasure from the whole thing while taking photographs/video or writing about it later. More visceral experiences get me excited too, but it's not really the human interaction that does it (sexual encounters or focused conversation being the exception). It's just the feeling I get from pursuing the things that interest and thrill me. Any activity that makes me feel high inside seems like a necessity, like I couldn't live without it.

Either way, the SO and I both have fairly weak impulse control. It might indeed kill us one day, hahaha.

Uhuh.... uhuh... keeping back Sx to not be all against the norms, make a scene, etc.... yes...

Yeah, something like that maybe. At times, others can be a little uncomfortable when I let the strength of my feelings/opinions bleed out into the open - even a tiny bit, if they don't know me well. I'm not usually a loud or domineering person by any means, but sometimes the intensity of my energy/passion seems like it could knock somebody over.

Sometimes people think I'm only going against the grain to be contrarian or unique, should one of those passionate topics be a little unpopular. Or they just don't know what to do with that amount of enthusiastic focus. Could be a combination of both. It's a pattern I see with other Sx-doms, too.

Ah... that's true, that's wise. You're right. Patience, darn, patience!

You just gotta believe!

Uhuh... uhWhAT??? Nooo... NOOO! You're chickening out again!! Blast you, come back you little.. you little weasel smthing... GGGRRHHHR!!!!

( xDDDDD )

I'm sorry!!!

 

[Neokortex]

It sounds as if you are combining the theory with behavior that isn't connected to it. It sounds as though you want to know the answer to this question:

"Women, what makes you approach a man to get to know him - and if you do initiate that act, what keeps interest maintained?"

A lot of this is going to be physical attractiveness. Like...99%. This goes for men and women who are strangers, as if people are blank slates of personality, it only makes sense that the first hurdle that gets crossed is the most superficial.

So you say that approaching men is not connected to Sx. Approaching women is definitely not, I believe or at least boys gotta get the courage to do it once or twice or perhaps even more often at the bar, party place, etc., perhaps extroverts do it more often. But a single woman approaching a single man I think is rare. There's just one girl I can think of, who did it to me, of whom I thought could've been some NFJ helper type, maybe Sx 2, other than that, in most cases it's me who had to do the "work." And one reason is, as I mentioned that I don't have a social network. Now, if I don't have friends who introduced me to new girls, then what are the girls doing in a similar predicament? The Sx/Sp girls, for instance, do they go into a bar, make eyes to a guy and then wait if he gets the message or not?

 

[Neokortex]

It's kinda weird. I'm not quite an extrovert with people (unless I've found someone particularly interesting and Sx has taken the wheel), but I'm an extrovert with experiences/sensory input. I can go to large events without a buddy because I like being in observer mode, and I still gain pleasure from the whole thing while taking photographs/video or writing about it later. More visceral experiences get me excited too, but it's not really the human interaction that does it (sexual encounters or focused conversation being the exception). It's just the feeling I get from pursuing the things that interest and thrill me. Any activity that makes me feel high inside seems like a necessity, like I couldn't live without it.

Either way, the SO and I both have fairly weak impulse control. It might indeed kill us one day, hahaha.



Yeah, something like that maybe. At times, others can be a little uncomfortable when I let the strength of my feelings/opinions bleed out into the open - even a tiny bit, if they don't know me well. I'm not usually a loud or domineering person by any means, but sometimes the intensity of my energy/passion seems like it could knock somebody over.

Sometimes people think I'm only going against the grain to be contrarian or unique, should one of those passionate topics be a little unpopular. Or they just don't know what to do with that amount of enthusiastic focus. Could be a combination of both. It's a pattern I see with other Sx-doms, too.



You just gotta believe!



I'm sorry!!!

So you were saying... you've never approached a strange man, by yourself, when single, when looking for a partner and in a way that you conveyed him explicitly, by language, that you'd get to know him a bit/check him out because you're actually looking for a partner. The only time you were able to utter a similar confession is after a couple of dates with the guy you're with now who had not been a stranger to you before you asked him out (and that one also without explicitness about sexual undertones)?

 

[Luv Deluxe]

The only time you were able to utter a similar confession is after a couple of dates with the guy you're with now who had not been a stranger to you before you asked him out (and that one also without explicitness about sexual undertones)?

Nope. That's not what I've been saying at all.

In almost all of my relationships, I have been the one who invited the other to hang out/asked them to be my significant other/admitted attraction first. I can only think of two instances where the guy asked me first instead.

There were blunt sexual overtures in my invitation for my friend-now-boyfriend to hang out with me - not sure why you're assuming otherwise. He's still got a screenshot of the text I'd sent, telling him that he should probably bring condoms.

The reason I used the example of my current relationship as a "high stakes" situation is due in particular to an element of this thing called "the friend zone." A lot of people are terrified of destroying or changing a friendship because they've developed feelings; the rejection in that situation bears a lot more weight because it has the potential to cut you much, much deeper than simply approaching some dude at a bar who ultimately doesn't really matter yet. For me, those risks are absolutely worth it - for many others, this is not the case. Sorry if that example confused you.

If you are a male friend, I view you as an equal - but an equal with sexual potential. I am always acutely aware of our chemistry. I'm not saying that my way is better or even always healthy, but it's how I operate for the most part. I will not intentionally make advances that cause others discomfort, however. Keeping one's fingers on the emotional pulse of the people around you is imperative (and probably comes naturally if you're at home in these circumstances).

So you were saying... you've never approached a strange man, by yourself, when single, when looking for a partner and in a way that you conveyed him explicitly, by language, that you'd get to know him a bit/check him out because you're actually looking for a partner.

Do you mean "partner" in a romantic sense? In a "please call me back, I want a future" sense? Because to that, I would answer no - only sexually do I play here.

I don't consider any of the instances wherein I approach a guy while dancing, or flirt that he "must like a lot of head" if his beer is too foamy, or whatever the case may be - as signs of anything more than sexual partnership. I always have respect for the people I'm interacting with, and I don't mean to suggest that their potential wants don't matter. It's just that for me, these initial engagements feel purely sexual. (Even in committed relationships, I'm actually turned off by phrases like "I wanna make love to you," as "lovemaking" feels too romantic and pretty, a very ill-fitting word for the headspace I'm actually occupying when I do it.)

I guess I've personally separated love and sex. They're two different things to me. Both are very attractive, but they happen in different ways.

I'm also not very traditionally romantic, and I don't do "dates." Therefore, it's pretty unlikely that I'd ask a stranger out for such an occasion. This has nothing to do with initiation tendencies, and everything to do with dates being the opposite of my sexual interaction style. I'd rather court you as a friend and tell you how I feel later (should romantic feelings arise), or just take our pants off now and make a night of it.

Disclaimer time! I would caution you to not confuse a capability to initiate with an automatic tendency to do this every time I go out. I'm not sure, but maybe you or others mistake the plethora of occasions wherein a woman is out on the town for personal reasons (because she's honestly just meeting a friend, grabbing a drink, or listening to music) for a situation wherein she's actively seeking companionship while playing a socially passive role. In actuality, that same woman might have no problem introducing herself to a partner of interest - when she feels she's encountered one. There are many, many places filled with uninteresting people, and if she counts you among them, then so be it.

Also - the fact that I can be at a bar without approaching anyone doesn't mean I never take initiative. The fact that I'm often approached by men doesn't mean that I always assume a passive role.

 

[Neokortex]

In almost all of my relationships, I have been the one who invited the other to hang out/asked them to be my significant other/admitted attraction first. I can only think of two instances where the guy asked me first instead.(...)

Do you mean "partner" in a romantic sense? In a "please call me back, I want a future" sense? Because to that, I would answer no - only sexually do I play here. (...)

Would you call "dates," then, sexual hangouts instead?

I'm also not very traditionally romantic, and I don't do "dates." Therefore, it's pretty unlikely that I'd ask a stranger out for such an occasion. This has nothing to do with initiation tendencies, and everything to do with dates being the opposite of my sexual interaction style. I'd rather court you as a friend and tell you how I feel later (should romantic feelings arise), or just take our pants off now and make a night of it.

How do you ask them out then? Like "how about hanging out tonight so I can see you again and then we'll see where it goes" or "gimme yo # so I can call you when I feel like doin' some netflix and unbabunga" xDDD or somethin.

If you are a male friend, I view you as an equal - but an equal with sexual potential. I am always acutely aware of our chemistry. I'm not saying that my way is better or even always healthy, but it's how I operate for the most part. I will not intentionally make advances that cause others discomfort, however. Keeping one's fingers on the emotional pulse of the people around you is imperative (and probably comes naturally if you're at home in these circumstances).

I'm good with chemistry too but rely more on verbal feedback on checking emotional status. I've met once a woman with similar reactions as the ones you give in writing, the test gave her ISTP and gosh, she wasn't good with feeling those emotional soft spots. Sexjoked the hell out of me, though, but it was all so ambiguous, she denied meaning it, nevertheless pressed very hard on. D

So you say you've done all the stages. Tell me one example. From scratch, where did you see him, how did you initiate, did you hit it off with him or turned out to be the wrong person? I'm not that much interested in the emotional part but the practical part about abridging the distance btw you and a strange person. How it all gets to the stage of "courting him as a friend."

 

[Luv Deluxe]

Would you call "dates," then, sexual hangouts instead?

Nope. I just see it as me and another person occupying the same space, doing something fun together while being open to the possibility of taking things further. Every situation is different, and context is generally understood between both parties. Play it by ear, enjoy yourself, trust that you'll know what to do, etc.

How do you ask them out then? Like "how about hanging out tonight so I can see you again and then we'll see where it goes" or "gimme yo # so I can call you when I feel like doin' some netflix and unbabunga" xDDD or somethin.

Are you asking because you want advice?

Just leave it at "gimme your number, let's hang out" or give them yours. Keep it simple when you ask someone what they're up to for the evening or if they might like to meet up somewhere. You shouldn't have to explain why.

I'm good with chemistry too but rely more on verbal feedback on checking emotional status. I've met once a woman with similar reactions as the ones you give in writing, the test gave her ISTP and gosh, she wasn't good with feeling those emotional soft spots. Sexjoked the hell out of me, though, but it was all so ambiguous, she denied meaning it, nevertheless pressed very hard on. D

My SO is an ISTP. Neither of us likes being very mushy or romantic by default (though we get there sometimes), so we just text each other dirty puns instead. ISTPs are usually pretty cool, I like 'em. We're very similar, actually.

So you say you've done all the stages. Tell me one example. From scratch, where did you see him, how did you initiate, did you hit it off with him or turned out to be the wrong person? I'm not that much interested in the emotional part but the practical part about abridging the distance btw you and a strange person. How it all gets to the stage of "courting him as a friend."

Take my favorite brewpub, which boasts a combination of nightly live music and minimal seating space, therefore leading an existence prone to overcrowding. He seems to be with a friend, not another girl. I ask if the last remaining seat at his table is taken and introduce myself. We make conversation that falters once or twice, but overall remains animated enough that I can tell he's definitely enjoying it. When I flirt, he flirts back. Bar close rolls around, I ask what he's up to afterward - he says he was just about to ask me the same question. There ya go!

When you say, "turned out to be the wrong person," you mean the physical dynamic/chemistry, right? I could talk some more about how those two things (sex vs. love) are different for me, how I only start to feel romantic affection after an emotional attachment develops, but I think I pretty much beat that topic to death in my last response, haha.

I honestly don't like talking about specific examples in detail because it makes me feel like I'm diminishing a genuine interaction that I enjoyed with someone else - like I'm just boiling it down to a series of steps with an endgame in mind. I often don't approach other people (do not confuse this with waiting or expecting to be approached) and I'm not perpetually gunning to sleep with strangers - particularly since I'm in an awesome relationship (nontraditional though it may be). It's simply that, when I feel compelled to engage with someone, I follow that notion because I'm confident and comfortable. Honestly, it seems pretty straightforward - reading people, talking to them, etc. Be nice to them, have fun with them, relax.

I had awful social anxiety in high school, interestingly enough.

And assuming that I've approached a stranger - we might become friends and we might not. I'm not pressing for that to happen; like romantic relationships, I believe friendship is an organic thing. In other words, the final stage of courting someone as a friend might not happen at all, and I'm absolutely fine with that.

 

[Neokortex]

Just leave it at "gimme your number, let's hang out" or give them yours. Keep it simple when you ask someone what they're up to for the evening or if they might like to meet up somewhere. You shouldn't have to explain why.

Have you ever been more explicit than that? My problem is that I can't keep myself from verbalizing those feelings. And that really put off most of the women I've met. I can only feel safe if I feel I'm allowed to express my bodily sensations, mental/physiological states considering our chemistry/sexual attraction. Most of the women think that's desperate, I guess? For sure it's not what your "normal" person would call "socially smooth" or "keeping the boundaries." I can't keep it back, still, because if I feel in the other's body language that they are also undergoing something sexual but that they deny it, it just makes me insecure. In other words: I can only trust people who can be honest about their instinctual side already at the onset of a possible relationship. There're not much women like that, I'm telling you. Talking about the weather when all that's in my mind is how much her boobs arouse me, is a lie I can't keep up for so long.

Take my favorite brewpub, which boasts a combination of nightly live music and minimal seating space, therefore leading an existence prone to overcrowding. He seems to be with a friend, not another girl. I ask if the last remaining seat at his table is taken and introduce myself. We make conversation that falters once or twice, but overall remains animated enough that I can tell he's definitely enjoying it. When I flirt, he flirts back. Bar close rolls around, I ask what he's up to afterward - he says he was just about to ask me the same question. There ya go!

It's simply that, when I feel compelled to engage with someone, I follow that notion because I'm confident and comfortable. Honestly, it seems pretty straightforward - reading people, talking to them, etc. Be nice to them, have fun with them, relax.

Ain't that sound like your usual extrovert? Really smooth. The huge clash between the ESTP tertiary Fe (from the MBTi side) and the So blind spot (from the Enneagram side). You really sure you're Sx/Sp instead of Sx/So? I don't often approach groups of people bc I don't want to be ostracized on the spot. Hence I usually come up with the "I'm attracted to your colleague" talk instead of sitting down with them and awkwardly try to contribute to their conversation or isolate the girl from their group dynamic, which doesn't work out either if they wanna be together. May be my Social 4, though, fearing social shaming but I'm yet to come across one group who would take me seriously after being too childlike/out-of-sync/erratic in trying to interact with them like an elephant in a china store. Here it says: "In our blindspot instinct, we tend to feel perpetually like little kids, feeling unable to handle things in that area, putting ourselves down "I'll never get it together" in that instinct." Not sure how that plays out with the 7, supposing 7's the one you're not social with?

Not to mention calling out the "underbelly" side of reality, their earthly motivations under their facades which isn't really far from being explicit in one's reasons for asking someone out. Odd thing for you to say that I shouldn't explain why.

I often don't approach other people (do not confuse this with waiting or expecting to be approached) and I'm not perpetually gunning to sleep with strangers - particularly since I'm in an awesome relationship (nontraditional though it may be).

vs.

In almost all of my relationships, I have been the one who invited the other to hang out/asked them to be my significant other/admitted attraction first. I can only think of two instances where the guy asked me first instead.

Ofc not now but before you had anything coming. If the relationship is already developing than it's not that hard to be proactive and ask one out, initiate physical stuff, etc. The real challenge, to me at least, is to get to that stage when it's not awkward anymore to call someone or let them know about your sexual desires DIRECTLY. I count Sx or the "instinct of intimacy" to play a role in this, and about this I would like to read examples. The initial penetration, taking risks.

I honestly don't like talking about specific examples in detail because it makes me feel like I'm diminishing a genuine interaction that I enjoyed with someone else - like I'm just boiling it down to a series of steps with an endgame in mind.

Well if you say you don't often approach people, then there's not much risk taking to talk about. Risk, in a sense of doing something not socially accepted, because of the social blind spot = you always run the risk of being singled out by a conservative "guardian" social subtype who thinks you're overstepping, i.e. 'Sx' penetrate people's boundaries without the group's consent, thus being a sexual deviant, a nympho (or in women's view: sexual harrasser male). I've read from a Social subtype confessing how hard it is for him to approach a girl when she's not with other people - I have the opposite, lonely girls don't have another person next to them to reinforce the norms. But I guess you've never been transgressive about them, for your Fe keeps its "fingers on the emotional pulse of the people around you."

 

[Luv Deluxe]

Have you ever been more explicit than that?

Yeah. For example, the response I just gave you - wherein I told my friend to bring condoms when he came over.

My problem is that I can't keep myself from verbalizing those feelings. And that really put off most of the women I've met. I can only feel safe if I feel I'm allowed to express my bodily sensations, mental/physiological states considering our chemistry/sexual attraction. Most of the women think that's desperate, I guess? For sure it's not what your "normal" person would call "socially smooth" or "keeping the boundaries." I can't keep it back, still, because if I feel in the other's body language that they are also undergoing something sexual but that they deny it, it just makes me insecure. In other words: I can only trust people who can be honest about their instinctual side already at the onset of a possible relationship. There're not much women like that, I'm telling you. Talking about the weather when all that's in my mind is how much her boobs arouse me, is a lie I can't keep up for so long.

Yeah, I hate small talk too. However, there are lots of interesting topics that include neither the forecast nor boobs. For me, it wouldn't be the sexual drive that turned me off (mine's high enough as it is). Instead, it would just be a perceived inability to get enthusiastic about anything else - it would make you seem really uninteresting, no?

Ain't that sound like your usual extrovert? Really smooth. The huge clash between the ESTP tertiary Fe (from the MBTi side) and the So blind spot (from the Enneagram side). You really sure you're Sx/Sp instead of Sx/So?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm sx/sp. I'm pretty quick to read people/social interactions, but it seems like the social instinct still has the least amount of influence on me. I have questioned it before, though.

Don't confuse confidence with being an extrovert or having sp in your blind spot. I tried to explain this earlier because my case feels complicated, but let me try again: I do not feel like an extrovert with people, whereas I do with experiences/sensory stimulation. I rarely feel anxious around people. I think maybe I hit rock bottom and had nowhere to go but up? In a somewhat dark, exposure therapy kind of way, very little scares me anymore - but I don't especially need people either, and generally would choose to be alone/in control of what I want to do. A lot of my Sx-ness is focused upon lifestyles and interests, not in romance.

If you were to meet me in person, you'd know what I meant - and if you were looking for an ESTP, you'd be looking at the wrong people. (Unless I was already quite drunk. Then I'd seem very ESTP, probably.)

I don't often approach groups of people bc I don't want to be ostracized on the spot. Hence I usually come up with the "I'm attracted to your colleague" talk instead of sitting down with them and awkwardly try to contribute to their conversation or isolate the girl from their group dynamic, which doesn't work out either if they wanna be together. May be my Social 4, though, fearing social shaming but I'm yet to come across one group who would take me seriously after being too childlike/out-of-sync/erratic in trying to interact with them like an elephant in a china store.

Are you a 4, then? In your description you've got 4 higher in your tritype stack, but earlier you said you were a 6, so I wasn't sure how you identified.

I'm not sure what to say to this, other than sharing my honest reaction - I straight up felt sad, reading this. It kinda bums me out that you feel so worried about being rejected by strangers, but I can appreciate that fear - and it does hurt when it happens. I don't mean sad in a pitiful, "you're so pathetic" way, not at all - I just wish that more people tried laying it all on the line and being themselves. What do you have to lose, right?

It's one of those awfully dangerous pieces of advice, an easier-said-than-done kind of thing, but...man. Have you tried talking to the girls you liked - the actual girls? Instead of telling them that you're interested in someone else? They may well take you at your word and assume that, in spite of your efforts to communicate with them, you really are just too shy to talk to that other person. Even if you're successful in initiating conversation using this method, you've still got another battle to fight: getting them to see you as a sexual possibility again, not a friend whose interests supposedly lie elsewhere.

I really hope for you someday that you find the connection you're looking for, and that you won't feel anxious or awkward when you've done so.

Here it says: "In our blindspot instinct, we tend to feel perpetually like little kids, feeling unable to handle things in that area, putting ourselves down "I'll never get it together" in that instinct." Not sure how that plays out with the 7, supposing 7's the one you're not social with? Not to mention calling out the "underbelly" side of reality, their earthly motivations under their facades which isn't really far from being explicit in one's reasons for asking someone out. Odd thing for you to say that I shouldn't explain why.

I mean, if you want to explain why - go for it. For some people, the thrill of not knowing exactly can be more of a turn-on, but most are probably already guessing that you're interested (or at least have some awareness on their radar). I don't think you even need to be Sx-dom for that. I think most people understand what's on the table, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

For me, I really struggle to network when I have to, particularly for business arrangements. I'm terrible with those things, even though I know there are obligations I can't avoid. (I wish I could, forever.) In college, everybody was exchanging business cards with each other and I was kind of turned off. It all felt so superficial, yet there we were, expected to play the game and like each other for personal gain. Ugh.

Ofc not now but before you had anything coming. If the relationship is already developing than it's not that hard to be proactive and ask one out, initiate physical stuff, etc. The real challenge, to me at least, is to get to that stage when it's not awkward anymore to call someone or let them know about your sexual desires DIRECTLY. I count Sx or the "instinct of intimacy" to play a role in this, and about this I would like to read examples. The initial penetration, taking risks.

I get really annoyed when I read descriptions of Sx that only focus on what the instinct might mean for human interaction. I fully support descriptions that clarify and remind everyone that yes, Sx can focus its laser-beam on anything of interest - and it's not all about finding "the one." Intimacy can and does include a complete immersion in one's fascinations, whether or not those fascinations concern another person.

With that in mind, I think you and I are both Sx, but probably have different romantic orientations. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem like the type who can arrive at romantic attraction very quickly - therefore everything is high stakes from the get-go. I, on the other hand, won't feel anything beyond a sexual interest (am likely hypersexual yet demiromantic). For me, then, the challenge of telling someone I've already gotten to know and love is WAY MORE INTENSE than approaching some dude at a bar whose opinion really won't affect me by night's end.

So if you're looking for my behavior to match yours exactly in order to stand as a legitimate example of the Sx instinct, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. It's not that one of us is right and the other is wrong; these are simply different ways of going about it. I think I've given you plenty of examples by now, but you're not really considering them because they're not exactly how you would feel or how you would do it.

Well if you say you don't often approach people, then there's not much risk taking to talk about. Risk, in a sense of doing something not socially accepted, because of the social blind spot = you always run the risk of being singled out by a conservative "guardian" social subtype who thinks you're overstepping, i.e. 'Sx' penetrate people's boundaries without the group's consent, thus being a sexual deviant, a nympho (or in women's view: sexual harrasser male). I've read from a Social subtype confessing how hard it is for him to approach a girl when she's not with other people - I have the opposite, lonely girls don't have another person next to them to reinforce the norms. But I guess you've never been transgressive about them, for your Fe keeps its "fingers on the emotional pulse of the people around you."

Would it make you feel better to know that I've been called every sexual name in the book? Even by people who were supposed to be my friends? That I have a reputation and things get pretty dark sometimes?

This shit has a cost, man, and most of the time I feel like my soul's on fire.

 

[Neokortex]

Yeah. For example, the response I just gave you - wherein I told my friend to bring condoms when he came over.

Noo, I mean to strangers. And explicit in a direct way... You were asking a guy about his next move, instead you expressing what you had in mind or what your body felt within. Kinky or not, there are diplomatic ways of going about it. DD

Yeah, I hate small talk too. However, there are lots of interesting topics that include neither the forecast nor boobs. For me, it wouldn't be the sexual drive that turned me off (mine's high enough as it is). Instead, it would just be a perceived inability to get enthusiastic about anything else - it would make you seem really uninteresting, no?

Of course not! I don't think sexual impulses will have more power if expressed... or channeled xDDDD Well, it is the ideal that the girl shared some interests that would spark lengthy conversations but denying sex for no one meeting that ideal I think is plainly stupid. D Still, as also being a meticulous Enneagram 1, I have standards, and nowadays just don't know whether the standards stand in the way or the difficulties expressing my emotions.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm sx/sp. I'm pretty quick to read people/social interactions, but it seems like the social instinct still has the least amount of influence on me. I have questioned it before, though.

Don't confuse confidence with being an extrovert or having sp in your blind spot. I tried to explain this earlier because my case feels complicated, but let me try again: I do not feel like an extrovert with people, whereas I do with experiences/sensory stimulation. I rarely feel anxious around people. I think maybe I hit rock bottom and had nowhere to go but up? In a somewhat dark, exposure therapy kind of way, very little scares me anymore - but I don't especially need people either, and generally would choose to be alone/in control of what I want to do. A lot of my Sx-ness is focused upon lifestyles and interests, not in romance.

If you were to meet me in person, you'd know what I meant - and if you were looking for an ESTP, you'd be looking at the wrong people. (Unless I was already quite drunk. Then I'd seem very ESTP, probably.)

Eeeehm, ummphhh. You are tied between Sx/Sp and some So qualities? Now don't play down the So qualities, capiche? Facebook friends? Twitter, social media? What's with Sp? Tattoos, piercings, bodymod (gosh)? Water pipe reposing in the corner? Or: how far does your 7 take you in having pppphuuuun? Like, for real? You're not anxious around people? You've just said you were anxious in... ohh, so you've pushed yourself through.. Don't need people? But are they there when you need them? If yes, then that'd make it rather an So secondary, but I know that noone can be squeezed into these categories just like that. There're some ranges in between instincts + each enneagram has its levels of intensity (subduedness, manifestness) based on it's which "instinct" or rather "orientation" it has. Some guy wrote on reddit: sx/so vs. sx/sp
"Both sexual types have a large energy, and tend to be pretty obtrusive in a social setting. The difference is that sx/so's have a smooth energy that flows outwards, while sx/sp's energy goes in bursts. In general, sx/sp's are more in their heads, thinking.. and will sit just thinking about the conversation, then suddenly feel a big burst of sharing come on, and burst in, sometimes at the wrong point, because they're not as attuned to the social dynamic." (...)However, if something really catches their interest, they'll change dramatically and become like a regular sx/sp, all burst-y and jerky and excited. This is something I don't like about myself, one of my biggest faults that's been brought up by numerous people through the years. It's like I can't always get a feel for where to interject my thoughts in a group conversation, so I wind up blurting, and talking over people from all directions, even when I'm trying to gauge it. Sx/so's are very socially attuned and much smoother, regardless of e-type, than sx/sp's. Unlike the sx/so's smooth outward flow (sometimes likened to a generator), sx/sp energy moves in/out/in/out in unpredictable bursts (sometimes likened to lightening). That's one reason sx/sp's can angry others more than sx/so's.
sx/sp ~ seductive. romantic. the 'affair'
sx/soc ~ aggressive. partier. the 'porn star'

Are you a 4, then? In your description you've got 4 higher in your tritype stack, but earlier you said you were a 6, so I wasn't sure how you identified.

I'm a core social 4 where social means I have social shame and because my other Enneagrams are stronger than this, it pretty much makes it neglected... in a self-deprecative way.

I'm not sure what to say to this, other than sharing my honest reaction - I straight up felt sad, reading this. It kinda bums me out that you feel so worried about being rejected by strangers, but I can appreciate that fear - and it does hurt when it happens. I don't mean sad in a pitiful, "you're so pathetic" way, not at all - I just wish that more people tried laying it all on the line and being themselves. What do you have to lose, right?

I agree, I see my path towards embracing my 4-ness and being able to express it. It's really hard because I'm still struggling with making its content conscious... feelings that I have a hard time expressing in words and wanting to belong when I'm afraid to be too much lopsided for them by being overly sexual on one side and an angelic infant on the other. PPP And the fun thing is that on one of the subreddits it wrote
"EDIT: The key for social lasts is not that they have to create or pretend there's a connection, but to find the connections that are already there. the so-last will think it's up to them to make the social happen, so they won't do it at all, but that's the projection by so-lasts on the social sphere. " - the way I take this is that I've been wandering because of short lived connections that I tried to make it work but lost my sense of what I needed emotionally so the solution is to stop keep trying so hard. It's not easy bs if I don't do pretend than I hardly do at all, I get shy.

It's one of those awfully dangerous pieces of advice, an easier-said-than-done kind of thing, but...man. Have you tried talking to the girls you liked - the actual girls? Instead of telling them that you're interested in someone else? They may well take you at your word and assume that, in spite of your efforts to communicate with them, you really are just too shy to talk to that other person. Even if you're successful in initiating conversation using this method, you've still got another battle to fight: getting them to see you as a sexual possibility again, not a friend whose interests supposedly lie elsewhere.

Instead of telling them that I'm interested in someone else? Oh nonono. I only have problem with confessions at the moment I come across a girl. If needed to tell her my emotions, I'd be unable. But there are girls who aren't necessarily hot but are really cute. And I don't know how to lead a conversation bc all I feel that I want to be with her, feel this feeling longer but.... ehhh, I'm afraid I'll creep them out if I said such things. It's just too early. And I don't know what social cues or social scripts I'm ought to use to have some excuse to talk to her longer. PP Why is it all only up to me anyways???

I really hope for you someday that you find the connection you're looking for, and that you won't feel anxious or awkward when you've done so.

I hope she'll find me instead of just me searching franticly. PP

I mean, if you want to explain why - go for it. For some people, the thrill of not knowing exactly can be more of a turn-on, but most are probably already guessing that you're interested (or at least have some awareness on their radar). I don't think you even need to be Sx-dom for that. I think most people understand what's on the table, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

Well, I smashed my ass enough times already by not telling them what I was up for so they interjected at some moment to inform me about their boyfriend, the best thing they could have, etc, etc. Aaarghhh

For me, I really struggle to network when I have to, particularly for business arrangements. I'm terrible with those things, even though I know there are obligations I can't avoid. (I wish I could, forever.) In college, everybody was exchanging business cards with each other and I was kind of turned off. It all felt so superficial, yet there we were, expected to play the game and like each other for personal gain. Ugh.

Guess it's more Ennegram related, not So blind spot particularly. Rather soundz like an E7 girl singing: "Oouh girlz just wanna have fu-hun..."

I get really annoyed when I read descriptions of Sx that only focus on what the instinct might mean for human interaction. I fully support descriptions that clarify and remind everyone that yes, Sx can focus its laser-beam on anything of interest - and it's not all about finding "the one." Intimacy can and does include a complete immersion in one's fascinations, whether or not those fascinations concern another person.

I guess it's Sp/Sx which is more preoccupied with solo projects, homely hobbies instead of people..., the stereotype at least. To think of it, my Sx 1 is pretty much passionate about making people discern their instinct type right, there're just soooo much So types acting like they were So blind spots. P I hate it bc I really wanna come across these rogue girls, see how they think, whether we have common problems... So far I've met none.

With that in mind, I think you and I are both Sx, but probably have different romantic orientations. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem like the type who can arrive at romantic attraction very quickly - therefore everything is high stakes from the get-go. I, on the other hand, won't feel anything beyond a sexual interest (am likely hypersexual yet demiromantic). For me, then, the challenge of telling someone I've already gotten to know and love is WAY MORE INTENSE than approaching some dude at a bar whose opinion really won't affect me by night's end.

I wouldn't use the word "romantic," I see you've been throwing it around. Because of the self-deprecating nature of my 4 I rather aim for intelligence and looks. I don't wanna get infatuated quickly but it easily happens if the girls starts teasing me with acting unavailable, unpredictably, leaving longer gaps btw contacts. Somehow induces my separation anxiety even if I know that there's no way for me to fall in love with someone I don't really know. But if we have a good convo, I'm able to verbalize some feelings, not in a passionated way more like a "look, the pink clouds are kickin'" type of way. D But the high stakes are there in a way that I want to be called back, instead of the liberalness of the 7. You sound like an ENFP in that respect. I also like to have my time to choose between all the colors, flavors of candy but if something's good, that gotta last.

So if you're looking for my behavior to match yours exactly in order to stand as a legitimate example of the Sx instinct, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. It's not that one of us is right and the other is wrong; these are simply different ways of going about it. I think I've given you plenty of examples by now, but you're not really considering them because they're not exactly how you would feel or how you would do it.

O, no. You didn't give me enough. I mean of course, the different the Enneagram, the different the Sx flavor. That's cool. But you still eluded giving me concrete examples. Frankly, you're like a politician. And that's more like the bluffin', stayin' in the abstract type, which lacks the groundedness of the Sp, if I may theorize like that.

Would it make you feel better to know that I've been called every sexual name in the book? Even by people who were supposed to be my friends? That I have a reputation and things get pretty dark sometimes? This shit has a cost, man, and most of the time I feel like my soul's on fire.

Oooh, so you've tried a lot of candy??! Fuck you! You lucky son of a gun! Aren't you now the porn star? The Sp blind blind spot keeping you from stability? the "dirty slut and her promiscuity" seen as lack of boundaries to the extent of...transmitted disease risk? Adapting to people so easily that you can get them into bed? Because you don't find your identity and need someone to tell you who you are, at all? I'm getting carried away, tho, lot of it just pouring out of my funky mood, say, aren't you a black woman btw?, for some odd reason I feel like rappin', tho. xDDDD

 

[Luv Deluxe]

Noo, I mean to strangers. And explicit in a direct way... You were asking a guy about his next move, instead you expressing what you had in mind or what your body felt within. Kinky or not, there are diplomatic ways of going about it.

For me, a little lead-up is more intense. It's really exciting to have that back-and-forth exchange, steering another person in the direction you'd like to go and watching the play as it develops, so to speak. What you're describing is more like shooting at an empty net - quick and to the point, though less exhilarating.

Having said that, some flirtation (even of mine) is so blunt that I wonder how anyone could interpret it differently. I don't believe most people need it spelled out for them.

Maybe I like waiting in other ways, too. Orgasm denial (getting off eventually, just not right away) is one of my sexual kinks; something about drawing out an experience makes it even better. That's me, though. To each his/her own.

Of course not! I don't think sexual impulses will have more power if expressed... or channeled xDDDD Well, it is the ideal that the girl shared some interests that would spark lengthy conversations but denying sex for no one meeting that ideal I think is plainly stupid.

I don't deny sex if the guy doesn't have a lot in common with me, and I'm not advocating that. I think western culture can be quite sexually repressive, actually. It even sort of glamorizes the idea of Sx behavior in media while judging it more negatively in day-to-day practice (or raising its eyebrows, at least).

I am, however, very aware of what I'm into, and I happen to be a like-attracts-like kind of person. The more common threads we have as personalities, the more enticed I'll be. I don't seek companionship indiscriminately.

If I'm talking to a guy and all he can think of saying is how nice my breasts are, that's fine (and I'm flattered, I guess), but there are plenty of other guys who also feel that way. I therefore need something else to make the connection more interesting; something else has to stand out about you that made me attracted to you. I am likely to find you very boring otherwise.

With regard to your concerns that my instinctual stacking isn't what I say it is:

Eeeehm, ummphhh. You are tied between Sx/Sp and some So qualities? Now don't play down the So qualities, capiche? Facebook friends? Twitter, social media?

What about it? Are you asking if I'm big into social media? No, not really.

I don't see myself as tied between those qualities. I've considered it before because those things are worth reading about, and different descriptions abound everywhere. Knowing the subject helps to make sure you're on point.

What's with Sp? Tattoos, piercings, bodymod (gosh)? Water pipe reposing in the corner?

These things are superficial qualities that have nothing to do with Sp, hope you realize that. (Also, a water pipe? No. Wtf?)

Or: how far does your 7 take you in having pppphuuuun? Like, for real?

As opposed to not for real?

You're not anxious around people? You've just said you were anxious in... ohh, so you've pushed yourself through.. Don't need people? But are they there when you need them? If yes, then that'd make it rather an So secondary, but I know that noone can be squeezed into these categories just like that. There're some ranges in between instincts + each enneagram has its levels of intensity (subduedness, manifestness) based on it's which "instinct" or rather "orientation" it has.

I have a strange kind of existential anxiety, and I distract myself as often as possible from said anxiety. People are external to that, and I could take them or leave them (leave 'em, if they're not going where I'd like to go, and then probably just leave 'em after a while anyway). There are many people who I wish would have been there for me. You learn how to deal with it and move on.

Some guy wrote on reddit: sx/so vs. sx/sp
"Both sexual types have a large energy, and tend to be pretty obtrusive in a social setting. The difference is that sx/so's have a smooth energy that flows outwards, while sx/sp's energy goes in bursts. In general, sx/sp's are more in their heads, thinking.. and will sit just thinking about the conversation, then suddenly feel a big burst of sharing come on, and burst in, sometimes at the wrong point, because they're not as attuned to the social dynamic." (...)However, if something really catches their interest, they'll change dramatically and become like a regular sx/sp, all burst-y and jerky and excited.

The bolded generally resonates overall. Perhaps I owe my "social smoothness" to Fe and/or general perceptiveness. I still have plenty of awkward moments, but I don't panic about them anymore.

Guess it's more Ennegram related, not So blind spot particularly. Rather soundz like an E7 girl singing: "Oouh girlz just wanna have fu-hun..."

I fucking hate that song.

I guess it's Sp/Sx which is more preoccupied with solo projects, homely hobbies instead of people..., the stereotype at least. To think of it, my Sx 1 is pretty much passionate about making people discern their instinct type right, there're just soooo much So types acting like they were So blind spots. P I hate it bc I really wanna come across these rogue girls, see how they think, whether we have common problems... So far I've met none.

Haha, homely hobbies? What would that entail, in your opinion? Crocheting? Watercolors? Decorating my living room?

No, I like a thing and I make it my life, end of story. It's enticing, exciting, wouldn't-know-who-I-am-without-it kind of juice. If you can't realize that people don't need to be a focus there (though they absolutely can be), then I don't know what to tell you. Read more, I guess. There are a lot of great articles and forum discussions that describe this sensation in depth.

Sx is about intensity, not about finding someone to get married to. (Marriage is more of a social concept, actually, so if you're chasing people because you feel like you're getting old and there's some kind of unnamed pressure nipping at your heels, I'd rethink your stack. Maybe you'd like to nest and start a family and keep a home, which is more self-preservation.) In any case, I don't really have hobbies - I feel like my life would be more stable if I did, honestly. I have passions, things that eat me alive, things I pursue even against my better judgment sometimes. Everything is fire and ice, highs and lows, crests of energy. All. The. Time.

There is no mistaking that.

If you have decided that only your personal feelings and experiences should determine what this feels like for other people, then I'm sorry, but you're limiting yourself, and that's ultimately your loss.

I'm a core social 4 where social means I have social shame and because my other Enneagrams are stronger than this, it pretty much makes it neglected... in a self-deprecative way.

Though I'm no longer a huge subscriber of tritype theory myself, you seem to be confused as to how it works. The idea is that you'll have one core Enneagram type - your main type - and two others, each representing some weaker concern in a different triad than your core. Your core type is still your core type, however, and it's the one most prominently affected/influenced/shaped by your entire instinctual stacking down the line. You don't get a different Enneagram type for each instinct by itself, as a standalone pair.

That's a different topic for a different thread though, and I'm already running out of patience with this one.

I've been wandering because of short lived connections that I tried to make it work but lost my sense of what I needed emotionally so the solution is to stop keep trying so hard. It's not easy bs if I don't do pretend than I hardly do at all, I get shy....I don't know what social cues or social scripts I'm ought to use to have some excuse to talk to her longer. PP Why is it all only up to me anyways??? ...I hope she'll find me instead of just me searching franticly.

It sucks, because those are unfortunate heteronormative expectations/ideas a lot of people have - that the man should do the work, that women who initiate must be easy, etc. Not everyone has that idea, but I realize that creates a lot of pressure for some, and I don't want to be unfair because it's very real. You've said it yourself though - one solution might be to stop trying so hard. Don't become jaded, don't become entitled, just take a deep breath and let life happen. I agree that it shouldn't always be up to you. That's one reason I'm so forthcoming with guys! I wanna be the change I'd like to see in the world, haha. (I'm not good at putting the brakes on, either.)

However, you also said it: you're searching frantically. Why? Why does it matter that you find somebody right now? Get in touch with your motivations and be honest with yourself. If you're so attached to the idea of a person, you might blind yourself to the actual person you're interacting with, to any real chemistry you may or may not actually have with them. Desperation and real attraction are not the same thing, and observant people will notice what's driving you. Until you try to connect with someone authentically, the cycle's likely to repeat itself. If that sounds condescending, I'm sorry.

Well, I smashed my ass enough times already by not telling them what I was up for so they interjected at some moment to inform me about their boyfriend, the best thing they could have, etc, etc. Aaarghhh

This should go without saying, but perhaps those women were telling the truth. Maybe they weren't - maybe they just didn't like you. Either way, why are you upset? They don't owe you anything. Do you feel like it's time wasted? If so, that's pretty sad.

I wouldn't use the word "romantic," I see you've been throwing it around. Because of the self-deprecating nature of my 4 I rather aim for intelligence and looks. I don't wanna get infatuated quickly but it easily happens if the girls starts teasing me with acting unavailable, unpredictably, leaving longer gaps btw contacts. Somehow induces my separation anxiety even if I know that there's no way for me to fall in love with someone I don't really know. But if we have a good convo, I'm able to verbalize some feelings, not in a passionated way more like a "look, the pink clouds are kickin'" type of way. D But the high stakes are there in a way that I want to be called back, instead of the liberalness of the 7. You sound like an ENFP in that respect. I also like to have my time to choose between all the colors, flavors of candy but if something's good, that gotta last.

Yeah, I used the word "romantic" because I tried to differentiate between the notions of romantic love and sexual energy, which for me are separate. Even if I feel excited by someone, if they don't call me back (or text, as is much preferred) - I just mentally move onto the next thing, which is easy for me to do since it takes longer for romantic feelings to develop. I think everybody wants to be texted back, but I'm not inclined to sit around and be sad about it if that doesn't happen. (If I don't know you very well, and you're not giving me the high I want, I'll find someone who will.)

ENFP, huh? We don't share any functions, but I suppose my romantic style would look similar to an ENFP stereotype on the surface, provided you didn't know me and weren't familiar with this style of approach. I'd describe it more as...aloof, yet laserlike. I know what I want, engage when I want, cut my losses when I sense they need to be cut, etc.

I do care, though, very deeply. It takes time for that to happen, that's all. I've only had my heart broken once, and I still think about it.

But you still eluded giving me concrete examples. Frankly, you're like a politician. And that's more like the bluffin', stayin' in the abstract type, which lacks the groundedness of the Sp, if I may theorize like that.

You may indeed theorize like that. Theories can be wrong, though.

I thought I gave you plenty of examples, because I didn't understand the specific, direct nature of what you were asking initially. Have I said something really sexually blunt to a stranger? Yes, I have. Why I need an example to validate that for you, I don't know. I can see how that might seem like a politician's answer, but I don't want to get into the visceral details of my personal life on a public forum. I probably wouldn't have offered if I'd realized that's exactly what you wanted. Make sense?

Initially, I thought you were complaining that Sx women never initiate. I said we do, you jumped to a collection of inaccurate conclusions, and I've been trying to explain/help you out/offer insight ever since.

Oooh, so you've tried a lot of candy??! Fuck you! You lucky son of a gun! Aren't you now the porn star? The Sp blind blind spot keeping you from stability? the "dirty slut and her promiscuity" seen as lack of boundaries to the extent of...transmitted disease risk? Adapting to people so easily that you can get them into bed? Because you don't find your identity and need someone to tell you who you are, at all? I'm getting carried away, tho, lot of it just pouring out of my funky mood, say, aren't you a black woman btw?, for some odd reason I feel like rappin', tho. xDDDD

Wow, so...this is probably a reason you have trouble interacting with people for very long. This shit, right here.

Not a black woman (in the off-chance that was a serious question), no identity problems. I do things because I'm fascinated by them and because they get me off. I am my passions, certainly, but I do not require a relationship or a person to tell me what to think or how to feel. That is pathological.

As for the names and the STDs (haven't had any, but thanks for going there?) and all of your casual insinuations about motivation right there - that's another reason I'm not keen to go into explicit detail about the individual experiences I've had. They are numerous and complicated. I've had many positive experiences, but being a sexually forward female has its own set of issues. I've had trouble with different people in different ways, some worse than others. This is a heavy, loaded topic, and you don't seem capable of handling it.

I've more than exhaustively covered this topic, aaaaaaand I think we're done here.

 

[Neokortex]

If you have decided that only your personal feelings and experiences should determine what this feels like for other people, then I'm sorry, but you're limiting yourself, and that's ultimately your loss.

Thanks for pointing me that out... As you said you're not the usual ESTP and your case is a bit complicated. Now the best way to demonstrate is by examples, and boy, do us NFs like narratives and emotional colorings to imagine how a situation would play out! But the problem is, what I noticed with NTs and STs as well, is that they tend to believe that they verbalized each of their intended messages. That's often false.

I didn't understand the specific, direct nature of what you were asking initially. Have I said something really sexually blunt to a stranger? Yes, I have. Why I need an example to validate that for you, I don't know. I can see how that might seem like a politician's answer, but I don't want to get into the visceral details of my personal life on a public forum.

It's because human language and communication is flawed. When you say "yes, I have" you may not think about the same circumstances that I do. You may even exagerate. There are things you write that seem to have the intolerance of the "I can do it" E3 to the whiny E4. You may share personal details about your flaws for once and incongruences btw your private/public life by changing the names, omitting PG13 stuff, unless you really care what others would think of you in this abandoned part of the forum.

No, I like a thing and I make it my life, end of story. It's enticing, exciting, wouldn't-know-who-I-am-without-it kind of juice. If you can't realize that people don't need to be a focus there (though they absolutely can be), then I don't know what to tell you. Read more, I guess. There are a lot of great articles and forum discussions that describe this sensation in depth.

-> End of story?? Are you E3 Wonder Woman? I'm talking about when you need supporters to reach a goal you otherwise can't on your own. There's also written that among allies Sx/Sp can create misunderstandings, perhaps make them turn against him/her. From what you write, your So blind spot is so mininal that you don't even think about problems with maneuvering society, the possibility of ostracism, lossing support. Say, you get kicked from your job for being hotheaded about something and need to ask around for some help ... I mean it's either you're not taking big enough risks, or, you have stable relationships that keep you from becoming crazy all alone. Or you can make new and not lasting relations (in bars) quickly because your topics of interest are not that far off the beaten path.

I rarely feel anxious around people. I think maybe I hit rock bottom and had nowhere to go but up? In a somewhat dark, exposure therapy kind of way, very little scares me anymore - but I don't especially need people either, and generally would choose to be alone/in control of what I want to do. A lot of my Sx-ness is focused upon lifestyles and interests

- Sx/Sp is supposed to be syn-flow. Mind my desperateness but people catch my interest and I wanna get closer to them, the only problem is that usually they expect me to play by the game. What you write there presupposes a different place to be coming from. That they don't interest you (as much) for you've already had enough of them. BTW, I don't have hobbies either but sure I don't want to be alone and if there were good leaders like at yesteryear's acting improv, I'd be willing to give up control, partially. Being with the right kind of people is just plain awesome (until the illusion wears off, that is). I imagine you rock climbing, yes, a stereotype just for the sake of it, or mountainbiking with a group. How is that you can keep back your Sx-domness so much to not cause any outrage? Mentioned your Fe, you perceptiveness but come on, Sx/Sp is about stirring the hell up, one can't keep it under check forever in social situations. Otherwise there wouldn't be any spark for revolutions.

Desperation and real attraction are not the same thing, and observant people will notice what's driving you. Until you try to connect with someone authentically, the cycle's likely to repeat itself. If that sounds condescending, I'm sorry.

- You've never gotten outside of the human social sphere, have you? Into the Wild-like.

Either way, why are you upset? They don't owe you anything. Do you feel like it's time wasted? If so, that's pretty sad.

- Becuase only a few has turned me down with uplifting words, when a good number of them allowed themselves to play around with a man to feed their ego and then reject him. And because men hazard approaching women based on looks but women don't hazard approaching men regardless he is desperate or not. Being insecure and jittery can be temporary if the personalities share things in common.

I have a strange kind of existential anxiety, and I distract myself as often as possible from said anxiety. People are external to that, and I could take them or leave them (leave 'em, if they're not going where I'd like to go, and then probably just leave 'em after a while anyway). There are many people who I wish would have been there for me. You learn how to deal with it and move on.

-> how do you garner support? Or does it instead just plainly work out for you? To think of it, if Sx/Sps had offbeat interests, at ESTP Se related, how far can that go? I'd be amazed if you said you made a friend in the bar bc it turned out he's also into UFO hunting by scanning the sky with choppers.

The bolded generally resonates overall. Perhaps I owe my "social smoothness" to Fe and/or general perceptiveness. I still have plenty of awkward moments, but I don't panic about them anymore.

-> if you can blend into their group, why not stick there? Do you sacrifice something from yourself?

Wow, so...this is probably a reason you have trouble interacting with people for very long. This shit, right here.(...) As for the names and the STDs (haven't had any, but thanks for going there?) and all of your casual insinuations about motivation right there - that's another reason I'm not keen to go into explicit detail about the individual experiences I've had.

It was past midnight and I wanted to catch you on your social qualities. It sounded like you have a reputation. I haven't heard of Sx/Sp men going around with women, because they don't fit in, aren't that influential, well networked guy to attract social type girls in. But if they find one, they usually stay with that one woman. On the other hand, Sx/Sp women, if I ask my gut, it says I may have seen some, although, not recognized at the time, in the company of guys. These tomboyish girls or "witches" are not seen much among fellow wome but they somehow always have male bodyguards, charmed away fellows on their side, as their tie back to the social world - that's how I'd imagine you to get a reputation or just some impromptu bad opinions about a healthy amount of relationships. Otherwise it would be the other stereotype which is about the Sp blind spot, involving veneral diseases, chameleon-ness of identity, etc.

all of your casual insinuations about motivation right there - that's another reason I'm not keen to go into explicit detail about the individual experiences I've had. They are numerous and complicated. I've had many positive experiences, but being a sexually forward female has its own set of issues. I've had trouble with different people in different ways, some worse than others. This is a heavy, loaded topic, and you don't seem capable of handling it.

Haha, well try me! Not that you were really trying all this time... You're full of ambiguity, maybe you're not the writer type but next I'm gonna be more direct, okay? Btw, half of it up there was a joke, alright? I was just trying to relax and write something hilarious. But then Sx/Sps also touch on the abject side of reality. I tend to be harsh with criticism and don't hold back my ideas. If I thought you had kinks, I'd say those kinks out loud. Compromise is a good team tactic, but otherwise it leads to the herd effect.

How many Facebook friends, twitter connections, etc do you have?

How much tattoos, piercings, bodymods (if) do you have? What recreation drug do you consume (if) and how often?

These things are superficial qualities that have nothing to do with Sp, hope you realize that. (Also, a water pipe? No. Wtf?)

Your Ni having a lapse. There's no such thing as "superficial" in interconnectedness.

Or: how far does your 7 take you in having pppphuuuun? Like, for real?
As opposed to not for real?

As opposed to counter-gluttony. How much do you sacrifice of you Sp when on a party, celebration, pub etc?

 

[Luv Deluxe]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION] - The functions are there, but I'm no ESTP. You've taken a Sensor/Se stereotype, applied it to me, decided I must be an ESTP because I'm not scared of being in public and have earthly desires, and then kept getting lost in the weeds. (I don't live at the bar, I don't live to pick up men, and people who use Se are quite capable of having very deep, varied, eccentric interests and abstract conversations - conversations about psychology and typology, for example. I travel and do many things and meet most people through those paths instead. None of this seems to have sunk in, and most of it doesn't even feel relevant to the topic at hand anymore.)

From my perspective, you're trying to connect the dots, but you seem to be linking things that don't matter - repeatedly. I want to say it's a communication conflict in Ni vs. Ne, but I've got Ne friends whose intuition is more collected than that. (Anyone can have tattoos.)

In response to your question of how I maintain relationships at all without causing conflict: sometimes relationships go well, and sometimes they don't. This is the nature of life - for everyone. I've had a lot of nasty rough patches. I still don't want to lose those I've already gotten close to. Fortunately for me, I have to move beyond an event horizon to be affected, so those fears aren't as common as they used to be (see: repeated attempts to explain why strangers don't fit that requirement).

I used to have something called Borderline Personality Disorder, and it's a bitch. I learned a lot though, and now I apply those lessons to my life regularly. I would encourage you to recognize that others have different backgrounds and experiences and may have come to develop skills or use functions in ways you haven't previously considered.

Do you fight with everyone in every group you've been in? No? Okay, well, that's how you maintain relationships. Be considerate of others and keep on doin' your thing. If EVERY relationship and EVERY interaction goes up in smoke for you, that's not Sx/Sp, that's a problem specific to you.

This whole thread seems to have been a place for you to complain that women don't do what you want them to, and you're after validation. You blame your type, and pin typology labels to your identity like it's an excuse, or an exclusive club membership. When people offer their input, you dismiss them or focus on a detail to support your preexisting perceptions. You're testing people, only interested in that which specifically validates your subjective struggles. You're not here to learn anything new.

I hope you've been able to pull something out of this thread that helps you, man, but I'm out. No offense. Take my advice or don't, it's up to you.

 

[Neokortex]

Well, it's been getting longer and longer and more complicated. So there's no way to blame your impatience. Or mine. I gotta get this straight with one of those introvert engineer meticulous types. But thanks for the contribution... ehh, even if we had some really different communication styles... at least you made an effort and I appreciate that.

From my perspective, you're trying to connect the dots, but you seem to be linking things that don't matter - repeatedly. I want to say it's a communication conflict in Ni vs. Ne, but I've got Ne friends whose intuition is more collected than that. (Anyone can have tattoos.)

There were some things I felt you didn't want to go in, that's why I pressed on more. Just to be sure that it wasn't me glossing over, that it was intentional. Maybe they aren't relevant in the bigger scheme, I still consider them worth the exploration. The devil is in the details, I think and without the details judgement and ethics are illfounded.

I used to have something called Borderline Personality Disorder, and it's a bitch. I learned a lot though, and now I apply those lessons to my life regularly. I would encourage you to recognize that others have different backgrounds and experiences and may have come to develop skills or use functions in ways you haven't previously considered.

[MENTION=29478]@Neokortex - The functions are there, but I'm no ESTP. You've taken a Sensor/Se stereotype, applied it to me, decided I must be an ESTP because I'm not scared of being in public and have earthly desires, and then kept getting lost in the weeds. (I don't live at the bar, I don't live to pick up men, and people who use Se are quite capable of having very deep, varied, eccentric interests and abstract conversations - conversations about psychology and typology, for example. I travel and do many things and meet most people through those paths instead. None of this seems to have sunk in, and most of it doesn't even feel relevant to the topic at hand anymore.)

It's not that I don't want to... it's just that you're giving me almost textbook like descriptions.. they're so abstract that my Ne immediately pulls'em apart. Guess if I had Fe I could imagine them better... maybe. That's why I wanted concrete stuff. But whatever, if you don't feel like it. You may've written something more than once but it just gets lost among the long replies. I thought I read ESTP in your siggy, that's why I thought you were.

This whole thread seems to have been a place for you to complain that women don't do what you want them to, and you're after validation. You blame your type, and pin typology labels to your identity like it's an excuse, or an exclusive club membership. When people offer their input, you dismiss them or focus on a detail to support your preexisting perceptions. You're testing people, only interested in that which specifically validates your subjective struggles. You're not here to learn anything new.

Do you fight with everyone in every group you've been in? No? Okay, well, that's how you maintain relationships. Be considerate of others and keep on doin' your thing. If EVERY relationship and EVERY interaction goes up in smoke for you, that's not Sx/Sp, that's a problem specific to you.

Uuhm, there's an emotional reality to that. I agree with the feeling part, and yes E6s do test people. But would you say there's no gaining experience in going in not so popular directions? The only thing that makes it appear deviant is that there are not much others concurrently exploring these aspects of human experience (to make their scrutiny validated, culturally accepted). I feel a lot of people follow scripts and stereotypes to create connections when real connections, real intimacy cannot be staged, mimicked, encapsulated in norms, conventions... even if every relationship, every interaction goes up in smoke for me... it will always be a two way street. See ya.