[SP] SPs and Religion

[Speed Gavroche]

I don't really care about the going to hell part, either. There was one point where I embraced the possibility (although when I went through the actual experience it wasn't too delightful).

And yes, I do believe Christianity tells me to indulge my senses. I don't think there's any particular point to life besides that which we find in Genesis, God created the world and looked at it and said it was gooood. Party it up! That's what Jesus would do.

For the past, I've been somewhat worried about the eventuality to be sent in hell. Not many, but I've think a little about the questions, an I've decided to don't care because I can't be so concerned with theses abstractions. I don't believe "sin" send us in hell, I just believe that God wants to show us what is not good and what is better, and gives us some ideal guidelines and forgive easily sins from the faith people provided that they've enough faith to think sincerely that another way of act would be better. But finally, I think that God can't be crual and can't have sent us on earth just to submit us to temptation. God have just sent us in Earth to get and create happyness in life with some notions of good and bad behavior.

My interest is in how to both best enjoy life and make this world a better place. I find both in Christianity. No matter what we do, we enjoy it more if others are with us... thus, love. And love is the supreme principle true Christianity adheres to and uplifts as the ultimate reality. Having friends who will die for you and whom you'd do the same for is the best experience you could ever have.

I'm really agree, and it's why I love with christians. They cultivate love and hapyness faithfully without agressives behavior. Moreover, they believe in God and they're very warm (I talk about really faithful christians). I've, at the opposite, felt militants atheists as very cold and boring company, revendicating a strong logic rather than faith (but actually, far to be so strong).

(And did.)

Obviously!

 

[Willfrey]

My mom's side is mildly religious, my dad's side is devoutly catholic. My grandmother always took issue with my father raising me without religion. I did have some mild interest in religion growing up, most all my classmates in the small school I attended went to church on Sunday.

I believe my dad taught me well enough, he was able to instill a sense of morals in me without being attached to Catholicism. I remember he always told me to respect the message of religion but never to follow it devoutly or let it make your decisions.

I recall my neighbor 'friend' was very into religion and would every now and then ask me about my believes and criticize me for not going to church, which sort of left a bad taste in my mouth. So for a while through highschool I think I was one of those atheist asshats who threw a fit over overtly religious things to spite him.

Anymore I really don't mind religion, to each their own and if it makes you happy then it's all well and good. I just don't participate in it.

 

[ESTPMarie]

Unitarian Universalist (I'm an atheist). As far as I can tell, I'm the only ESTP in my congregation.

 

[stellar renegade]

Whassssuuuuup, ESTPMarie! Please stick around!!!

and, hahaha, I can only imagine. I've never been to a UU church but I know a little about it. The only UU person I've known personally I think was an INFJ. haha.

For the past, I've been somewhat worried about the eventuality to be sent in hell. Not many, but I've think a little about the questions, an I've decided to don't care because I can't be so concerned with theses abstractions. I don't believe "sin" send us in hell, I just believe that God wants to show us what is not good and what is better, and gives us some ideal guidelines and forgive easily sins from the faith people provided that they've enough faith to think sincerely that another way of act would be better. But finally, I think that God can't be crual and can't have sent us on earth just to submit us to temptation. God have just sent us in Earth to get and create happyness in life with some notions of good and bad behavior.

Yeah, dude. I've come to believe that everyone will eventually be saved. I've also found that scriptures support that idea through and through, without you having to force the idea at all. In fact it kinda forces itself on you when you read it without bias.

The whole thing's become so convoluted that it's hard to reverse the whole thought process. Basically I believe that with death and the world to come God just lifts the curtain to show what's really going on. Anyone who hurts others is bound to be completely messed up inside. Hell is just experiencing all that shit without any pleasant distractions like you find in this life. I also believe it's possible that ghosts are the spirits of people who have trouble letting go of those distractions to experience the true torture of self.

I'm really agree, and it's why I love with christians. They cultivate love and hapyness faithfully without agressives behavior. Moreover, they believe in God and they're very warm (I talk about really faithful christians). I've, at the opposite, felt militants atheists as very cold and boring company, revendicating a strong logic rather than faith (but actually, far to be so strong).

In a world of Christian-bashers, you rule. Appreciate it, bro.

Obviously!

There are some people who, I think regardless of the fact that they don't claim to be a Christian, will find themselves somehow rewarded at the end. And I think if you stay on that path you'd probably end up becoming one of those.

Thanks for your thoughts, friend.

 

[ESTPgirl]

I believe jesus loves me and died on the cross for my sins. I try not to get overly involved in the rules and regulations of a church and I attend a non-denominational church

 

[stellar renegade]

Wow, so all the ESTPs here (that I know of?) either have faith of some kind or attend a church. That's funny.

I believe jesus loves me and died on the cross for my sins. I try not to get overly involved in the rules and regulations of a church and I attend a non-denominational church

I do go to what I call "institutional churches" but I believe in a non-hierarchical church, one that's more just like a family without any official system to it, no positions waiting to be filled, no church buildings, etc. I used to be a part of one back in Dallas and plan on starting one here. I honestly am with Frank Viola (check him out here) in that we need a revolution in the way we do things.

Of course I don't want to act like I'm dividing between myself and other Christians, this church already exists, it's just that she's tied down by all the institutional malarkey that's accumulated over the centuries. Ever shared an insightful thought with another believer or two or just broke out into singing worship together? Did you ever like talking with people after church even more than the service? Now that's church. It might not seem deep enough to have substance of its own, but only because we've tried to replace it with something else.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

I am a christian and fully believe that God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. I go to a baptist church and sometimes they can be....not family orriented if your not in a healthy church. Right now I'm searching for a great church with a wonderful family. My last church in Texas was so family oriented it was wonderful! Not only did we all worship together in the church but everyone hung out with eachother OUT of church. Everyone loved to be there because all our friends are there. Plus we always brought new people in and tried to make them feel apart of the family. I was usually involved in that and became best friends with lots of the new guests.
I believe we show God's love by loving others. Instead of worrying about rules and regulations, we're to love eachother. Thats where alot of people get confussed about christianity. They think christians are all about rules and being hypocritical, but thats because christians who believe you have to follow all these rules really cant follow those rules [we're not perfect], so they look like hypocrites.

Most Christians that DO seem hard and unloving dont grasp the reason why Jesus came to die for us. If we could all realise that we all sin and we ourselves cant be 'good' then I think we'd be able to fully love eachother no matter what. I belive Jesus died for our sins because we ourselves dont have the ability to be 'good'. Nothing we do can make us 'good'. Its not about what we do, but whats in our hearts.

Trust me, at the age of 16 I had to go on my own journey to figure these things out. I was unhappy and I hated life. I was severally interested in just killing myself. I know that sound drastic...but i was very stuck in this depression. Very opposite of who I am today. Only through Christ am I well and really happy. I know I am loved and that allows me to love others. I have purpose

 

[ayoitsStepho]

In other words, just gettin' wild. Why are Christians today known for being dull and boring? The early Christians were way too wild for the entire pagan world. The only thing they knew to do about them was to throw them to the lions. Rumors were constantly started about them and they were blamed for everything. The emperor blamed them for the burning of Rome and people believed it. No one would believe something like that about faith-filled folks today.

I agree completely. Even Jesus drank wine but didnt get drunk from it. There's nothing wrong with drinking, but I do believe over indulgence isnt so good. Heck! I'd party if there were any party's w/out all the stuff im not interested in there. I'm not a drinker [just because i dont care for it] and the parties around here involve sex and drugs.
But I'm the biggest party freak out there, I'll dance till I drop. There's nothing wrong with that at all! If Christians would stop worrying about 'rules' then they'd realise we're suppost to be the rebels, the crazy ones! I find that exciting

Rules only show us that we cannot be good without Jesus. That is the point that God gave us the 10 commandements and such. It makes us have to rely on HIM to get through our days. He just wants a relationship with us, thats all

 

[Trepidation]

Religion? No, thanks. None of the religions I have ever seen seem to offer anything that I need. Morality? Don't be an arsehole, and do what seems 'right' (and I think an absolute system of morals is utterly repugnant and dangerous). A purpose in life? When somebody asks 'Why?' I ask 'Why not?'. An afterlife? I'm not terribly afraid of death, and I don't need a metaphysical carrot to tempt me to do good. An answer to everything? I'm content to simply say 'I don't know', while I and others search for our own answers.

It seems as if many 'believers' have their own preconceived moral codes and motivations, and they simply pick and choose parts of their religion that suit them. It's as if they need some sort of convenient ultimate authority to back up their opinions. I don't see why so many reasonable people with reasonable ideas need to cloud them with their stories and myths.

EDIT: I just thought of a word that felt really appropriate, heh.

 

[sLiPpY]

I enjoy reading about religious topics and concepts across the spectrum. I find myself
spiritual but not religious, and more so gravitate to Zen.

I don't have enough patience to meditate or perform yoga regularly, but I do enjoy
power yoga occassionally and find myself moreso seeking answers within.

 

[ESTPMarie]

Wow, so all the ESTPs here (that I know of?) either have faith of some kind or attend a church. That's funny.

"Here is the church, and here is the steeple...open the doors and see all the PEOPLE..."

I go to church because there are lots of PEOPLE there. Yes, most of them are I's, but then most everyone seems (at least a little) I compared to me.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Yeah, dude. I've come to believe that everyone will eventually be saved. I've also found that scriptures support that idea through and through, without you having to force the idea at all. In fact it kinda forces itself on you when you read it without bias.

The whole thing's become so convoluted that it's hard to reverse the whole thought process. Basically I believe that with death and the world to come God just lifts the curtain to show what's really going on. Anyone who hurts others is bound to be completely messed up inside. Hell is just experiencing all that shit without any pleasant distractions like you find in this life.

I've read something like that too. The main idea is that faith is the minimal qualification to be saved and access eternity. Every faithfull people have a place in paradize.

I also believe it's possible that ghosts are the spirits of people who have trouble letting go of those distractions to experience the true torture of self.

The current pattern about ghost is that they are spirit wich don't want be submit or can't be submit to the doomsday, yes.

In a world of Christian-bashers, you rule. Appreciate it, bro.

I appreciate.

I've always find Jesus, in a word, cool. Even if he looks like a hyppie.

There are some people who, I think regardless of the fact that they don't claim to be a Christian, will find themselves somehow rewarded at the end. And I think if you stay on that path you'd probably end up becoming one of those.

Actually, I frequent as much christian than muslim, and so, I can recognize my faith in both religion. Muslims are usually more militants than christians and they have often tell me I'm in the way to becoming one. That's probably correct, but it's not my main preoccupation today. I believe that God is the only god, and that Mahomet is his prophet, and that Jesus is another prophet, but not God, so, I coul be consider like a muslim too. Elsewhere, I don't believe in some christian dogma, like the Trinity for example.

But I was not initially concerned with religions to be save from the Hell, but first to build a coherent moral code. But religions are'nt very coherent at the first approach, and I've search moral thought in others areas. Like libertarianism, too, wich is a clear, accurate and coherent moral philosophy, but I've understand that you're also libertarian, that's cool. I think religions have above all teach me to not join to moral relativism.

Thanks for your thoughts, friend.

Thanks for the yours, bro'!