[SJ] SJ's .. A question regarding the bigger picture of life

[Saslou]

In your opinion what happens when we die?

Why are we here?

Add any extra thoughts










I just want to partake in a serious debate

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

In your opinion what happens when we die?

It's pretty simple really. Our biological figure that contains the neccesary faculties to keep cease to function, along with it any metabolic proceses that maintain things like conciousness and perception. We simply disappear out of the empirical relationship we have with time and space, and movement and objects. Death really is just biological decomposition, were we no longer have sapient features. It's arguably a biological degradation, from a higher form to a simpler form. There are many other philosphical approaches, but atleast the one i am suggesting has evidence.

But i think the question you posed really was: What happens after we die?

Decomposition
Conversion
Energy

Why are we here?

No practicular reason really, i dont believe in ulterior entities, missions or higher purposes. The more relevant question is how we rather came to be, because there is absoloutely no evidence as to any specfic reason for our existence and state. However there are some convincing, yet incomplete hypothesises that suggest a very complex process that contains several facets, involving particle formation, energy and other concepts that you could write entire books about.

Add any extra thoughts
just want to partake in a serious debate

You need to brush up on your questions, since these are extremely broad(besides being extremely, extremely common themes in novice philosphy), and also wouldin't it be appropriate if you gave your own version before you asked for others?.

 

[raz]

What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end?

This discussion could easily get religious, but then again, I don't see the point of most religions. I guess people need ways to cope with their existence. What's the point of our life, the bigger picture? That question in itself proposes that individuals can see significantly further into the essence of life than others.

The objective of religious faith is to find a belief system that traces humans back to a point of creation. That is, in essence, what all religions are for. With each viewpoint in debate, it's nearly impossible to narrow down on believing one is the true one. It's all speculation. Why believe one over the other? There is only one answer. This makes religious beliefs less than valuable.

As for death, and alluding to what Gadaafi said, it seems to be a point where we cease to be. The existence of a soul is not entirely improbable. The mind and the body seem to have a relationship, but are two separate entities. An example would be the extent to which our body functions without our conscious effort. The same could be said for our brain.

Looking at our relationship with the world, it's ever-evolving, but at a slow pace when measured with our own perceptions. What is the intended nature of the relationship between humans and animals, our environment, and each other. Are you really even human? Other people in the world, you could go out on a limb and say you don't even know if they are the same species as you.

Our interaction with the world is limited by our own perceptions. Our understanding of the world is limited to our own experience and comprehension. This goes back to religious faiths. Our world is so complex, and forces are constantly at work that are beyond our sights. We can barely say we even understand how the universe works, and what is happening that we don't see.

 

[/DG/]

In your opinion what happens when we die?

Well, I think ColonelGadaafi summed up the physical aspects of this quite well...

But aside from that, none of us really know. You can spend hours arguing and debating over what you think will happen, whether we are reincarnated, we go to heaven, or simply nothing. Since there is no way to really find out, we must all decide for ourselves what happens or not bother to think about it.

Why are we here?

Everyone has a different purpose. It's up to you to find one. But life is what you make it and if you don't make one, there will be none.

 

[EJCC]

What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end?

Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread

 

[Saslou]

But i think the question you posed really was: What happens after we die?

You need to brush up on your questions, since these are extremely broad(besides being extremely, extremely common themes in novice philosphy), and also wouldin't it be appropriate if you gave your own version before you asked for others?.

I appreciate your upfront honesty, lol. Sure why not throw the above question in. I like to keep questions broad so it can be interpreted by the individual thus different views can connect (if needs be). Yes i could of given my own opinion but i was curious as to how people would respond. I'll reply at some point.

What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end?

It opens your mind to other possibilities. Why does there have to be an absolute truth anyway?

Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread

It's not about winning .. That's why i put this thread here and not in the bonfire or philosphy section. I do agree though about the subjectivity. I enjoy listening to differing opinions

 

[Andy]

What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end?

This is what I like best about STJs - the pragmatic focus on reality. I actually agree on this point to a great degree.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread

Well you see here, everything we do is subjective. Everything that we cause, want, desire is also subjective. Even wanting to be rational and objective is based on subjectivity.

So now matter how you will swing it, you'll still end up in the same part of the ballroom. You have to understand that subjectivity is inseparable from humanity. The point of discussing here is really to satisfy our inherit curiousity on metaphysical questions, and really there is nothing irrational by rationally responding to a need that is inheritly impulsive and irrational. Since the goal here is to satisfy these questions with persuasive answers that we can find feasible, even if they are entirely wrong. It's like calming down a patient with a placebo, while the placebo has no effect whatsoever, the effect on the patient is effective.

Even the concept of being rational is ultimately self-defeating, since all observers are subjective, thus you cannot establish the neccesary cosensus towards universal objective truths, which is what practicing rationality can be designed to do, to maximize the efficieny of our attempt remain truthfull relatively to our objective, which in this case is to remain truthfull in the question of our origins.

So really the best system that you can apply is one based on empirical perspective, one that can be proven, over and over again, and one that you can demostrate to your peers as working, even if they don't quite see it the same way. It's not perfect, it still has it's flaws, but it's the next best thing. Since it's supposed to deal with observable phenomenon that atleast tries to reach the standard of objectivity

Hopefully i am being comprehensible here. I am not good at formulating abstractions.

 

[Saslou]

This is what I like best about STJs - the pragmatic focus on reality. I actually agree on this point to a great degree.

Humour me please By being so focused on reality you in a sense boxing yourself in via tunnel vision .. Reality is more than that, what we see, what we don't, possibilities, intuition etc

In a SxJ world, who would be producing the theories??? Actually don't answer that

I was watching a programme on discovery yesterday about the universe and the theoretical physicist were rambling away and they are only theorising until conclusive edivence shows otherwise. There will always be someone who is able to find a new approach.

Now i understand in a concrete world of an SxJ 'what if's' are not really relevant to an extent .. But in reality nothing really is concrete.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I do believe that the 'Why are we here' has been summed up nicely by DisneyGeek.

Having said that, figuring out the individual 'Why am I here' has been headache inducing. For me, it's a simple case of improving something. Occasionally I'd just get into a funny mood, "Why exactly am I doing this again? What's the point?" and feeling like I'm just another person going through this thing called 'Life' along with the countless others. During those times... things do seem a little unreal and I find it hard to believe that I'm at university or in a relationship for example.

Yeah. I'm guessing this was more of a discussion about what our subjective beliefs is than a debate about what is truth. Doesn't really deviate from what SFJs like to talk about, which is opinions of others. Eitherway, it's nice to talk about this stuff.

 

[tinker683]

In your opinion what happens when we die?

No idea. Every religion seems to have their own pet idea as to how "life-after-death" proceeds so your guess is as good as mine.

Why are we here?

This is a loaded question, as it presupposes an intent behind the creation of humanity. Once that has been established, then this question is valid.

Add any extra thoughts

I just want to partake in a serious debate

I forsee this thread getting moved to the Philosophy section sooner or later if a debate does start in this thread.

Not that I'll be participating in it any further beyond that point. When I became an atheist 9 years ago I used for participate in online debates about God, religion, and everything in between and after doing that for several years I came to the conclusion that debating religion is a frustratingly GIGANTIC waste of time. While I have no issue with presenting my own point of view or belief, I refuse to get dragged into discussing the matter further.

Good luck with the thread Saslou-chan!

 

[raz]

Humour me please By being so focused on reality you in a sense boxing yourself in via tunnel vision .. Reality is more than that, what we see, what we don't, possibilities, intuition etc

In a SxJ world, who would be producing the theories??? Actually don't answer that

I was watching a programme on discovery yesterday about the universe and the theoretical physicist were rambling away and they are only theorising until conclusive edivence shows otherwise. There will always be someone who is able to find a new approach.

Now i understand in a concrete world of an SxJ 'what if's' are not really relevant to an extent .. But in reality nothing really is concrete.

The aim of this discussion is a concrete truth. Abstractions, predictions, speculation all are things created by people to lead them toward a concrete truth. The questions in this thread surround a subject that has a concrete truth. That truth can be anything. We can like it, or not like it, but it will be the truth.

Being defined as boxed into reality is in itself subjective. This is entirely dependent on your perception of reality. Is reality what you experience each day? Can reality be an intricately designed system with the beings inside of it not fully understanding the potential and boundaries of it? Humans are intellectually inferior. We can barely understand the true depths of time, space, and dimensions.

 

[EJCC]

Hopefully i am being comprehensible here. I am not good at formulating abstractions.

Yeah, you're making sense. But that's why I don't like most discussions like this: in my case (maybe not in all cases), the last word ends up being: "We're all subjective, nothing is pure fact, none of this is observable, this is all based on emotion, so let's agree to disagree."

And saslou - you're right that it's not about winning. But my opinions on life and its meaning and its beginning/end are so personal, and something that I feel like I can only work out on my own (Fi, anyone? lol), that it feels like an argument in the end.

Wow, pointless post. I'll let you guys get back to your discussion now.

 

[Gerbah]

Yeah, you're making sense. But that's why I don't like most discussions like this: in my case (maybe not in all cases), the last word ends up being: "We're all subjective, nothing is pure fact, none of this is observable, this is all based on emotion, so let's agree to disagree."

And saslou - you're right that it's not about winning. But my opinions on life and its meaning and its beginning/end are so personal, and something that I feel like I can only work out on my own (Fi, anyone? lol), that it feels like an argument in the end.

Wow, pointless post. I'll let you guys get back to your discussion now.

I think it's subjective in the sense that the process of asking the questions of "Why are we here", etc. is to do with the individual's personal need and recognitions. But I think that an objective truth does exist independently of our subjective perceptions and emotions and people can connect to a greater or lesser extent to these objective truths.

I may be subjective to whatever degree, and I am also relative. Clearly, the process of the existence of the universe and life, etc. is independent of my subjective opinions and relative existence, so whatever I do, when I die, etc. something independent of me with an objective existence, whether or not I understand it fully, continues to exist. So in that sense, it's not all subjectivity just because my own mind cannot contain it.

I agree it's something every person has to work out on their own. I just wanted to say that I think it is worth working out and that I disagree that everything comes down to subjectivity in the end.

 

[Take Five]

I'm a Catholic, so the whole point of everything is to get to God.

 

[Donna Cecilia]

What's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about.

In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread

Same for me.

 

[runvardh]

I'm gonna be a stinker and suggest that sas is having a case of tertiary temptation...

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

I'm gonna be a stinker and suggest that sas is having a case of tertiary temptation...

No... i will not accept that such heavy questions are limited to some obscure definition coined by some MBTI authors. She is just being a human and asking questions that at some point in life humans pose when their perception of reality changes and explodes into something entirely on a cosmic level.

 

[runvardh]

No... i will not accept that such heavy questions are limited to some obscure definition coined by some MBTI authors. She is just being a human and asking questions that at some point in life humans pose when their perception of reality changes and explodes into something entirely on a cosmic level.

*pats the Colonel on the head* It's ok, this isn't the first time my meaning has gone over a person's head.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

*pats the Colonel on the head* It's ok, this isn't the first time my meaning has gone over a person's head.

If that was an attempt at humor, it was worse then a incineration of a tum our.

Let me tell you something about life, it's god awful and filled with strife, of every kind, sort and type, especially it is filled with intellectual tripe.

So chastising the stripe less shyte by acting like patronizing elderly knight is not cool and tight, as opposed to the vagina of a lubed up virgin that the colonel had last night.

"Life is harsh and cold and scarce, so let us all be friends or suffer the colonels might", said the crescent adorned peasant.

Argossian ninjas stealthily creeping in admist of night, waiting for the command from the colonels hand's, to strike and smite those who would call themselves fashionable knights.