Si Vs Ni: It Ain't Tradition

[Viridian]

Here's an interesting hypothesis I thought about recently...

What if Ni arrives at the truth by generating possibilities while Si does so by eliminating them?

Ummm...Feel free to feel that way about yourself.

I, myself, am pretty good at seeing reality..

Naturally, or after training yourself to watch out for possible biases?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Here's an interesting hypothesis I thought about recently...

What if Ni arrives at the truth by generating possibilities while Si does so by eliminating them?



Naturally, or after training yourself to watch out for possible biases?

Interesting. But eliminating them implies that Si starts with the maximum amount, then culls. I think of Si as being more discerning and critical than that...

 

[uumlau]

Lol...yes...design patterns are a combination of Ne and Si. I see NTPs much more in tune with design patterns where as Si uses them as a tried and true methodology. From talking with an ENTP coworker i have realized and been able to better communicae my ideas by using patterns as examples. I dont think in design patterns at all. I dont really define patterns, its not that i dont use them, its that they come natural to me as i progress in programming. Most are over used and half the people know the patterns, but not the reasons. I used threading in an EJB once and the EJB ended up causing issues. While people jumped on me about using threading,I looked into the reasons why u arent and my original code overcame all those reasons. Even had ENTP look into it since everyone blamed it on that. It was one of those Nprove my point things". I simply forgot to catch an exception and handle it. The consesus from theory was that i dont know what i am doing n regard to threading and i created a bottle neck and threading needed to be removed. Either way though there would have been threading issues as weblogic threads would have responded the same way. Found the problem, modified code to catch error and problem fixed in 15 minutes while everyone was still harping about threading. Thats where Si is nice...because tradition says I know what i am talking about and am really good at understanding this kind of stuff. It was nothing more then a data issue where we got back data we werent expecting. The code i wrote speed wise could handle an entire days worth of data in 20 minutes. No one had a clue what they were talking about, but apparently loved to put there 2 cents in as if they knew.

I dont abide by rules...i figure out why the rule is in place and work around it. U can call it loop holes, but i have morals and values to determine what loops wholes i use.

Heh. Tell me about it.

One time there was a critical issue in production and so in a panic they put entire dev team to work on it. I figure out the problem in 10 minutes.

But, the other guys have their own pet theories as to what is wrong. Soooo ... I have to spend the next hour explaining why my solution is correct. (Like your case, it was just a minor data issue that popped up in a glaring way.) The frustrating part is that it was insufficient for me to prove that my solution was correct, but rather I had to prove both of their ideas wrong. To prove my idea correct, all I had to do was just change the data input to something safe, and demonstrate that got rid of the bug, and putting the data back in created the bug. Simple, but apparently too simple. "How can you be so sure that [my pet theory] isn't the problem?" they would ask.

 

[uumlau]

Here's an interesting hypothesis I thought about recently...

What if Ni arrives at the truth by generating possibilities while Si does so by eliminating them?

I think both generate and eliminate possibilities. The difference is that they're regarding different "spaces" of possibilities. Due to being concrete, the Si space of possibilities is more readily apparent to others: even fellow Ni-doms cannot always follow each others' thoughts.

 

[Owfin]

I think both generate and eliminate possibilities. The difference is that they're regarding different "spaces" of possibilities. Due to being concrete, the Si space of possibilities is more readily apparent to others: even fellow Ni-doms cannot always follow each others' thoughts.

Our thought process only seems easily communicative. I'm able to show the "points" I stopped at, but the process of getting to and from things is inarticulable.

 

[KDude]

Si is redefined in MBTI, so I don't see the point in referencing Jung.

Not that I wouldn't want to see it corrected, but it isn't up to me. Not my system.

 

[EJCC]

Here's an interesting hypothesis I thought about recently...

What if Ni arrives at the truth by generating possibilities while Si does so by eliminating them?

I think I agree with this. It's why Si ideas (unlike Ne ideas) always aim to be probable. "Unrealistic" ideas are not even considered. Idea generation is always from the perspective of available resources, time constraints, etc.

Interesting. But eliminating them implies that Si starts with the maximum amount, then culls. I think of Si as being more discerning and critical than that...

What's more discerning and critical than starting with maximum data and going through a process of elimination? Seems very sensible to me. Then again, I'm biased. Te/Si is VERY good at eliminating "irrelevant" data.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I think I agree with this. It's why Si ideas (unlike Ne ideas) always aim to be probable. "Unrealistic" ideas are not even considered. Idea generation is always from the perspective of available resources, time constraints, etc.

What's more discerning and critical than starting with maximum data and going through a process of elimination? Seems very sensible to me. Then again, I'm biased. Te/Si is VERY good at eliminating "irrelevant" data.

At bolded: Te is for sure. Not so sure that is a function of the irrational functions. Aren't irrational functions all about unlimited perception or intuition based upon what the rational functions can fuel them with?

It could definitely work that way. But haven't we been discussing that Si is a database of stored sensory objects and relationships it has processed before? Wouldn't Si then be most comfortable with, and dependent upon, what has already been stored and encountered before? If so, then an Si-er's Te is limited by what has already been stored, making the likelihood of a maximum amount of possible scenarios necessarily limited. This is also my experience with Si doms and auxes: They are notoriously stubborn and rigid when it comes to new ideas, preferring the familiar and traditional. To me this more exemplifies a building UP of data over time, as more info is learned and sensory impressions are laid down related to experience and history.

Ni-ers on the other hand are not constrained thus, and are more lax in what they allow the possibility of their reality to be; meaning if they can imagine it, it just might be true. Se-ers stick to what they see and perceive. Ne-ers, what they can conceive of being possible in our vast universe.

Just my thoughts about it.

 

[Owfin]

At bolded: Te is for sure. Not so sure that is a function of the irrational functions. Aren't irrational functions all about unlimited perception or intuition based upon what the rational functions can fuel them with?

It could definitely work that way. But haven't we been discussing that Si is a database of stored sensory objects and relationships it has processed before? Wouldn't Si then be most comfortable with, and dependent upon, what has already been stored and encountered before? If so, then an Si-er's Te is limited by what has already been stored, making the likelihood of a maximum amount of possible scenarios necessarily limited. This is also my experience with Si doms and auxes: They are notoriously stubborn and rigid when it comes to new ideas, preferring the familiar and traditional. To me this more exemplifies a building UP of data over time, as more info is learned and sensory impressions are laid down related to experience and history.

Ni-ers on the other hand are not constrained thus, and are more lax in what they allow the possibility of their reality to be; meaning if they can imagine it, it just might be true. Se-ers stick to what they see and perceive. Ne-ers, what they can conceive of being possible in our vast universe.

Just my thoughts about it.

Remember that Si works with Ne. We narrow down possibilities, but those possibilities come from Ne. Also, I think that the building up of information is brilliant. We've studied every brick in our minds, so we gain mastery. Pretty cool to me.

Also, Ne types are constrained in the amount of depth they go into. They are focused on finding external possibilities and do not spend as much time staying and examining them carefully.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Remember that Si works with Ne. We narrow down possibilities, but those possibilities come from Ne. Also, I think that the building up of information is brilliant. We've studied every brick in our minds, so we gain mastery. Pretty cool to me.

Also, Ne types are constrained in the amount of depth they go into. They are focused on finding external possibilities and do not spend as much time staying and examining them carefully.

Oh. I did not know that Si worked with Ne. Can you elaborate?

Yeah, I agree, Ne is about breadth, not depth.

 

[Poki]

Remember that Si works with Ne. We narrow down possibilities, but those possibilities come from Ne. Also, I think that the building up of information is brilliant. We've studied every brick in our minds, so we gain mastery. Pretty cool to me.

Also, Ne types are constrained in the amount of depth they go into. They are focused on finding external possibilities and do not spend as much time staying and examining them carefully.

Dom Si does not have the vast experience that a Dom Ne would. So while you do know the detail of every brick, you dont have very many. Same would go for Ni and Se. It even plays in on itself when you think you know yourself based on a limited number and thus dont try to expand beyond that. You stick with tried and true.

 

[EJCC]

It could definitely work that way. But haven't we been discussing that Si is a database of stored sensory objects and relationships it has processed before? Wouldn't Si then be most comfortable with, and dependent upon, what has already been stored and encountered before? If so, then an Si-er's Te is limited by what has already been stored, making the likelihood of a maximum amount of possible scenarios necessarily limited. This is also my experience with Si doms and auxes: They are notoriously stubborn and rigid when it comes to new ideas, preferring the familiar and traditional. To me this more exemplifies a building UP of data over time, as more info is learned and sensory impressions are laid down related to experience and history.

True; but that's why I said maximum data, not maximum ideas. Si needs data to make ideas. That's why Si always asks for information, before changing its mind on anything, like you said before.

Oh. I did not know that Si worked with Ne. Can you elaborate?

From my experience it's just like how you described Ne in your own recent post; Ne thinks of whatever it can imagine, and Si thinks of whatever it has experienced or learned about beforehand -- and then because Si is stronger in STJs, Si will rule out Ne's "unrealistic" ideas and then continue narrowing from there.

 

[Owfin]

Dom Si does not have the vast experience that a Dom Ne would. So while you do know the detail of every brick, you dont have very many. Same would go for Ni and Se.

I recognize that. That's why it's always good to force myself out of my comfort zone, because I learn something.

Ne-Si and Si-Ne are sort of the same process, but with different focuses on different parts.

 

[Poki]

I recognize that. That's why it's always good to force myself out of my comfort zone, because I learn something.

Ne-Si and Si-Ne are sort of the same process, but with different focuses on different parts.

Yeah, I believe thats where Te comes into play as Te is alot more comfortable then Ne. ExFP use Te alot different then IxTJ. Its healthy for an IxTJ to reach toward Te, but an ExFP I see as more in Self-Protective state when they hit Te and not expanding out and growing.