Shape of the Cosmos ~ Understanding the Architectures of our Universe

[INTP]

Its impossible to know what shape the universe is(and it depends on definition of many things). But if there is one spot of origin(big bang) and the boundaries of the universe is defined by where the light has traveled the furthest away, then the universe is the same shape as the big bang was. However imo its stupid to talk of the shape by its boundaries, because there is a lot of mass inside the universe and those are in the shape aswell, then the shape of the universe is the shape of all its material contents(including this keyboard im typing with and black holes etc.). But again the mass in the universe isnt shaped as we perceive it(or how we are even able to comprehend it), but is energy in quantum state(which just manifests itself in macro scale in particular ways, but which isnt the actual reality) which interacts with other energy by basic forces of nature and its impossible to give shape to this energy in a quantum state.

You should start by thinking about questions that can be answered at least with some probability, then when you find probable answers to those questions, then you can start to hypothesize answers to bigger questions(but this question is just impossible to answer).

edit. also we dont even know if we exist in the edges of the universe(holographic universe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY ) or inside of it as we have theorized for centuries.

 

[Mole]

Its impossible to know what shape the universe is

The fact is we have taken very fine measurements of the background radiation of the big bang with orbiting telescopes, and it turns out the the universe is flat.

 

[INTP]

The fact is we have taken very fine measurements of the background radiation of the big bang with orbiting telescopes, and it turns out the the universe is flat.

Lol. Even tho the picture of the background radiation on your computer screen is flat, it doesent mean that the universe is flat..

 

[Mole]

Lol. Even tho the picture of the background radiation on your computer screen is flat, it doesent mean that the universe is flat..

You plainly don't understand the astrophysics of the background radiation and the shape of the universe.

You have set up a straw man of surprising simplicity and expect us to be taken in by it.

 

[INTP]

You plainly don't understand the astrophysics of the background radiation and the shape of the universe.

You have set up a straw man of surprising simplicity and expect us to be taken in by it.

You just proved that i understand the current theories about cosmic background radiation better than you do, by saying that it would suggest that the universe is flat. The whole idea of universe being flat is completely ludicrous, because we obviously do have 3 spacial dimensions(unless ofc we live in a holographic universe) + time and something that is flat only has two spacial dimensions + time.

 

[Qre:us]

The distinction between the "universe" and the "observable universe" must be made, when discussing this.

If it is the "observable universe" then what Victor (Mole) is saying is correct. Relatively speaking, as one cannot determine the curvature of the "observable universe", to make any assumptions about it. As we haven't "walked" that far yet, to know that it curves.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Hey [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION], don't walk off the edge of space, or else you will be gone for all time!

 

[Mole]

You just proved that i understand the current theories about cosmic background radiation better than you do, by saying that it would suggest that the universe is flat. The whole idea of universe being flat is completely ludicrous, because we obviously do have 3 spacial dimensions(unless ofc we live in a holographic universe) + time and something that is flat only has two spacial dimensions + time.

This is startlingly silly. Who am I dealing with here? Am I dealing with someone with a sense of humour who is pulling my leg, or am I dealing with someone who actually thinks a flat universe has only two dimensions and time?

Frankly, I think it is the later. This can be remedied by learning what a flat and curved universe is rather than what your erroneously think it is.

Also you should read the latest scientific discovery about the background radiation and the shape of the universe. And the news is the universe is flat.

 

[Mole]

The distinction between the "universe" and the "observable universe" must be made, when discussing this.

If it is the "observable universe" then what Victor (Mole) is saying is correct. Relatively speaking, as one cannot determine the curvature of the "observable universe", to make any assumptions about it. As we haven't "walked" that far yet, to know that it curves.

We have actually, just the other day, 'walked' all the way back to the big bang, and our measurements show conclusively the universe is flat.

 

[INTP]

Also you should read the latest scientific discovery about the background radiation and the shape of the universe. And the news is the universe is flat.

Actually the latest news is that old measurements werent precise enough, so it just seemed flat and new more precise measurements suggest that it has saddle shaped curvature(i got a pretty good theories on why this is, that kinda fits on both non holographic universe and holographic universe as its about the reasons where the theory on holographic universe comes from, but i cant be arsed to explain).

As i already said; "Its impossible to know what shape the universe is(and it depends on definition of many things)".

 

[Standuble]

Me thought the universe was flat with some saddle shaped curvature which were gradually decreasing in scope as everything was expanding. Me thought there was another universe next to ours and the interaction whilst expanding were causing all the quantum doohickeys! I imagine it as something similar to screwing up a piece of paper, unscrewing it all, accepting the now deficient piece of paper and then placing a second crumpled and unfolded piece on top of it. Then you put them in a tray and shake the tray a little from side to side.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

The problem is that we always think we've reached the final hurdle, only to discover later that our technology was not advanced enough, or that we were looking at it all wrong.

 

[Mole]

Actually the latest news is that old measurements werent precise enough, so it just seemed flat and new more precise measurements suggest that it has saddle shaped curvature.

This is simply untrue.

And I suspect you are perpetrating this untruth, not to further knowledge of astrophysics, but to further your own ego.

 

[Mole]

The problem is that we always think we've reached the final hurdle, only to discover later that our technology was not advanced enough, or that we were looking at it all wrong.

This is a furphy perpetrated by those who don't know or understand the facts.

 

[INTP]

This is simply untrue.

And I suspect you are perpetrating this untruth, not to further knowledge of astrophysics, but to further your own ego.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=universe-may-be-curved-not-flat

 

[INTP]

The problem is that we always think we've reached the final hurdle, only to discover later that our technology was not advanced enough, or that we were looking at it all wrong.

Only idiots think that theories are bullet proof facts. The only fact is that we cant prove anything to be true. In order to prove anything to be 100% true, you need to prove everything to be true that is used in coming up with the theory and also prove every alternative hypothesis to be untrue, no matter how unlikely those hypothesis might sound. You cant even prove that you arent living in a matrix, so you cant prove your perceptions/measurements to be true. Sure this matrix thing might sound weird, but as unlikely at it seems, there is a possibility for that aswell. Also you cant disprove god and since you cant disprove god, you cant disprove the possibility that its just fucking with everyones heads.

 

[Umbriel]

The universe is FLAT. At least that's what's accepted right now. I remember reading about it aaaages ago in a science magazine, so it must be right!

 

[Umbriel]

Hey [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION], don't walk off the edge of space, or else you will be gone for all time!

This is Earth, not the Discworld.

 

[Umbriel]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=universe-may-be-curved-not-flat

Yeah, if this turns out to be true it would be REALLY interesting, but we don't know yet.

 

[Mole]

The universe is FLAT. At least that's what's accepted right now. I remember reading about it aaaages ago in a science magazine, so it must be right!

Yes, there is some evidence from the background radiation that the universe may well be curved. We will of course seek to falsify the theory that the Universe is curved, but it may well prove to be true.

We live in interesting times with satellite astronomy taking ever more accurate pictures of the background radiation.