Schizophrenic customer making me nervous...

[Mole]

Illness is characterised by a lesion or an infectious agent. And as far as we know there is no lesion or infectious agent in schizophrenia.

What I observe is that the reason many are so emotionally cruet to those who are schizophrenc is because schizophrenics don't conform.

And usually this is expressed in bad faith by accusing the schizophrenic person to being violent or might be violent.

But in fact it is the fear of non-confomity rather than the fear of violence.

But really, accusing the schizophrenic of violence is a projection of the violent desires of the conformist against the non-conformist.

This is conclusively proved in this country for when the police are called to control a schizophrenic person, they have a bad habit of shooting them.

And this is what the conformists want - they want to shoot the schizophrenic - and the police do the job for them.

It's called murder by police. And guess what - it's all the schizophrenics fault.

 

[SurlyAdam]

I deal with crazy (literally) people just about every day. Like anyone, they want to feel understood. Unlike most people however, they act very irrational and become outwardly expressive in their emotions if they feel misunderstood. As long as you acknowledge them and pay attention, you can usually lead them down another path of thought.

INFPs have a natural desire to understand people, so we probably become less confused and judgmental when someone acts oddly. This however should probably be a lesson about times in life when you cannot help and the best course of action is to simply remove yourself from the situation. Not everyone can be helped, and many cannot be trusted.

If a person cannot act civilized, they have no place in society, as they may begin cutting of heads of the unsuspecting.

It's truly tragic when someone mentally ill is shot by the police. But police don't go around shooting people simply because those people are crazy. They shoot people who are a threat to other people. If one person is about to harm another, whether that person's thought process is rational or not becomes irrelevant.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I agree with getting her trespassed from the shop by police. This should be fairly easy to do. However, it will have to be enforced. So, you will likely have another episode if she comes in to the shop and the police have to be called to enforce the trespass.

Schizophrenia is the most severe form of mental illness. When unmedicated they can't be "reasoned" with. You may be able to keep them somewhat calm by your manner and tone of voice but they are pretty unpredictable.

It's sad because more than likely, Betsy will be in and out of mental hospitals for her entire life. She will be medicated then released then Betsy will go off her meds (very common with bipolar and schizophrenics) and the cycle continues.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's an "easy" way out of dealing with the negative sides of Betsy. So, don't feel guilty about doing what you have to do. Regardless of mental illness the public needs to be protected from danger and if she poses a physical threat then you have to do what it takes to protect your other patrons. Good luck to you!

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Regardless of mental illness the public needs to be protected from danger and if she poses a physical threat then you have to do what it takes to protect your other patrons.!

I would think most of you could benefit from such a vacation.

 

[ajblaise]

Grind up some antipsychotics and put them in her coffee!

That's win-win.

 

[Mole]

It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.

 

[Wiley45]

My brother at his worst would hear voices through radio and TV static (straight out of a movie) but after he was medicated and on therapy I can see no real symptons save extreme social anxiety which sadly seems to be getting worse.

I'm sorry. That must be difficult.

If she keeps coming to the shop she'll scare away customers, as I do with my 5 o clock shadow and unkempt INTP hair.

The 5 o clock shadow and unkempt hair might be what's accidentally attracting all the ladies, Alwar. Something to consider. I'm secretly a big fan of Albert Einstein hair, myself.

What I observe is that the reason many are so emotionally cruet to those who are schizophrenc is because schizophrenics don't conform.

Victor, I've always been very friendly and accommodating to Betsy, and so have all the other customers. She's a very unique individual with plenty of interesting things to say, and occasionally she annoys people, but nobody wants to see her shot.

INFPs have a natural desire to understand people, so we probably become less confused and judgmental when someone acts oddly. This however should probably be a lesson about times in life when you cannot help and the best course of action is to simply remove yourself from the situation. Not everyone can be helped, and many cannot be trusted.

Thank you for posting the above. I do have a pattern of trying to help people even when there is nothing I can do, and it's good to be reminded that certain situations require backing off.

 

[proteanmix]

I skimmed over the thread so excuse if I'm repeating.

When I was a teen I worked in a coffee shop in Union Station in downtown DC. Lots of homeless people congregate there. I was very afraid for the first few months I worked, I too would work alone at some points during my shift (never closed alone) and I had mentally ill men hitting on me and not leaving the store.

Some of that was probably partially my fault because I'd give them the food we were going to throw out at the end of the day anyway, but I think this also spared me a little bit in terms of how crazy they got; very few people bite the hand that feeds them.

I've also had many mentally ill people sit in very close proximity on the subway. Firstly, don't act anything is abnormal unless they seem violent. The more violently mentally ill get arrested pretty quick. Sometimes ignoring them makes them angry, they're not stupid and most can recognize when they're being ignored and then they act out to make you acknowledge them. I wouldn't try to make eye contact, but if it's made smile and avert your glance, look at your cell phone, pick up a newspaper. I was talkign to someone about this a while ago, about having your public armor around so you can escape people in a crowd. Newspaper, book, cell phone, ipod, any type of distractors you can use when you're in the throngs.

Here in DC we have so many tourists from Hinterland, USA coming through and they gather their children close to them and start whispering loudly and clucking when a mentally ill person comes near them making a bigger scene then if they were chill about how they go about things.

Since you're at work and you don't deserve to be subjected to this at your place of employment perhaps the owner of the shop could have security or something like that occasionally swing by?

I'm not going to lie; I regularly conversate with the mentally ill for my entertainment. If they seem harmless, which is pretty stupid of me...it's not like you can always tell, I just will sit and chit chat with them cause they say some funny ass shit. Yes, some of (well a lot of it is) me is laughing at them and I don't feel bad enough to stop, it seems to me they enjoy it since most people treat them like lepers so I like to think we both win! I get some free weekend entertainment and they get to tell me about the Third Throne Room of God and his Celestial Army that have taken up residence in their shopping cart. Some of the stuff they say is gutbusting. And this is some good material if you're a writer, people are giving this stuff away. Nothing beats the creative mind of a schizophrenic.

 

[Wiley45]

It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.

Betsy and I talk and joke around together all the time. She tells me I am a good friend, because I always listen to her. I have never been rude, made fun of her, or done anything to make her feel nervous.

 

[Mole]

The mentally ill were kicked out of their refuge, the asylum, onto the streets as a cost cutting measure.

They were abandoned on the streets in an intensely conformist population.

The conformists hate the mentally ill because they can't conform and punish them whenever they can.

Perhaps the greatest emotional cruelty inflicted on the mentally ill is social exclusion.

And if the mentally ill object to their social exclusion, the police are soon called.

And naturally the mentally ill are blamed for their own condition.

It's interesting that the form bullying takes among women is social exclusion - the very same form that is used to bully the mentally ill.

And social exclusion is immediately painful and does long term damage.

So the mentally ill have been kicked out of their asylums onto the streets among an emotionally cruel population - all to save the State the cost of caring for them.

 

[INA]

It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.

No it's not.

She should be banned from the coffee shop. For your safety, the other patrons safety, and her own safety --clearly, it's an environment that prompts her to have "a bad spell."

Why hasn't this been done already? Why is the owner allowing someone who attacks customers back in? Is there any protection for staff and customers?
It's all fun and games until the voices tell Betsy to take a knife to a few people.

 

[Willfrey]

The mentally ill were kicked out of their refuge, the asylum, onto the streets as a cost cutting measure.

They were abandoned on the streets in an intensely conformist population.

The conformists hate the mentally ill because they can't conform and punish them whenever they can.

Perhaps the greatest emotional cruelty inflicted on the mentally ill is social exclusion.

And if the mentally ill object to their social exclusion, the police are soon called.

And naturally the mentally ill are blamed for their own condition.

It's interesting that the form bullying takes among women is social exclusion - the very same form that is used to bully the mentally ill.

And social exclusion is immediately painful and does long term damage.

So the mentally ill have been kicked out of their asylums onto the streets among an emotionally cruel population - all to save the State the cost of caring for them.

Is it drafty up there on your soapbox?

Schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain. The afflicted don't function normally and in some cases there is little that can be done. They are ostracized by society because the are, bluntly, insane. They are separated from people either by their own volition or because they act in an unacceptable manner among people and must be separated for their own safety or the safety of others. Ultimately the scope of their care falls in the hands of their family and their ability to care for their own, as you can not expect the government to swoop in and solve all your problems.

In the case of the OP this woman needs to be separated, medicated, and in in therapy of some sort if she ever hopes to be a normal, healthy 'conformist'. Why are you painting this person to be a victim of society?

 

[sculpting]

This sounds like an odd suggestion-perhaps have a special table/bench out front that you have just for her to sit at.

It doesnt sound like she is always violent, but that she had a few bad spells. Triage the situation. If she seems to be getting out of hand, get her a muffin and juice and say Betsy lets go have you out front as it is cooler out there and less crowded. Here is your special muffin....

This is totally counter to any business goal you might have, but I am with victor on this on some level. She is a member of the human family who has been dumped out on her own and our social system doesnt take responsibility for helping her.

My ex worked in a day center for the mentally ill and severely disabled for about five years. Often these folks want nothing more than to try in some fashion to contribute to society. They want to work, they want to be included, even if in a wierd way.

Perhaps the question is deeper-are we really obligated to included those in our localized society who are very flawed through no choice of thier own? Does that mena we just keep them from self harm or do we include them in our societal rituals?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Is it drafty up there on your soapbox?

Schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain. The afflicted don't function normally and in some cases there is little that can be done. They are ostracized by society because the are, bluntly, insane. They are separated from people either by their own volition or because they act in an unacceptable manner among people and must be separated for their own safety or the safety of others. Ultimately the scope of their care falls in the hands of their family and their ability to care for their own, as you can not expect the government to swoop in and solve all your problems.

In the case of the OP this woman needs to be separated, medicated, and in in therapy of some sort if she ever hopes to be a normal, healthy 'conformist'. Why are you painting this person to be a victim of society?

I agree with the majority of what you said but the truth is schizophrenics and bipolar people (most severe forms of mental illness) are often victims of society. In the sense that the medication needed to become "stable" can cost a lot of money! In the U.S. if you have money then health care is fine. Otherwise you are fucked.

Let me give you a personal example: I am bipolar. I was diagnosed at 21 and have been stable and on meds for nine years. My meds per month are 300 dollars. My doctor visit per every three months is 75 dollars. Now think about your own finances...could you afford this addition to your expenses? Maybe. But most people can't. I couldn't. I had to choose between living at home and staying stable. But what if I didn't have a mother who was there for me? Some people don't have family to help them out or the family just doesn't have the means or time. (Taking care of a severe schizophrenic requires a lot of time!). When you think about things this way, it's easy to see why there are so many homeless that are also suffering from the effects of schizophrenia and bipolar illness.

So, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of social reform with our health care system to care for these cases. But it's really important to look beyond your own experiences and put yourself in someone else's shoes. I do believe that a mature, educated society can have the best of both worlds. There's no reason why society can't have individual free choice and build a system that helps those that can't help themselves.

 

[INA]

I agree with the majority of what you said but the truth is schizophrenics and bipolar people (most severe forms of mental illness) are often victims of society.In the sense that the medication needed to become "stable" can cost a lot of money! In the U.S. if you have money then health care is fine. Otherwise you are fucked.

Being fucked = you're a victim of society? Certainly it is unfortunate and calls for a solution but how does this create victims of society (rather than of bad biochemistry) out of the mentally unstable.

 

[statuesquechica]

So, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of social reform with our health care system to care for these cases. But it's really important to look beyond your own experiences and put yourself in someone else's shoes. I do believe that a mature, educated society can have the best of both worlds. There's no reason why society can't have individual free choice and build a system that helps those that can't help themselves.

Absolutely YES to the above. And I do believe that people who are "different" should be included in the social fabric, not just tolerated.

I want to reitierate that the majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are NOT violent. I work in close contact with people on forensic and civil wards and have never been attacked, nor threatened. To be honest, I felt more threatened from staff questioning my presence (getting in my face) as a government mandated advocate to monitor abuse and neglect of patients.

Many people with the diagnosis are functioning well, contributing in professions and sharing their knowledge and perspective with the world. Other people with the diagnosis are struggling on a daily basis to understand their "reality" and have legitimate reasons not to take medication. Psychotropic meds. have serious, life-long effects many times resulting in early death...taking medications can make things far worse for some, but some people will take them anyway to try to escape their inner world.

I just appreciate that Jewelchild is asking questions and not automatically making a decision that is based solely in fear.

 

[INA]

I want to reitierate that the majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are NOT violent.

But "Betsy" is.

I just appreciate that Jewelchild is asking questions and not automatically making a decision that is based solely in fear.

See above.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Being fucked = you're a victim of society? Certainly it is unfortunate and calls for a solution but how does this create victims of society (rather than of bad biochemistry) out of the mentally unstable.

Being fucked + extenuating circumstances CAN = "victim of society" My meaning of that term means that this chemical imbalance plus lack of universal health care can and does lead these people to become homeless. Thus being ignored by society.

 

[INA]

ok. Victimize = ignore; fail to provide with free service.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

ok. Victimize = ignore; fail to provide with free service.

fail to provide with affordable service