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Russia and Ukraine

MaxMad244

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I was talking to several doctors I work with from Ukraine and they were telling me that that U.S. doesn't really want to help Ukraine. This entire thing is about who is going to sell Europe more gas and Ukraine unfortunately is being used as a decoy behind what is more a battle of big capitalist business - Russia might seem like it's not capitalist but it's an oligopoly (a capitalist market structure).

I really don't understand the details behind this but given that my friends are geniuses and have many relatives in Ukraine, I find their point of view enlightening. It would explain the political posturing of "coming to Ukraine's aid" as a form of compensation for really having no intentions to do so what so ever. This is also true on the other side - Russia has no intentions to invade but is using the prospect to goad it's own population into conforming towards its economic goals.

This would also explain why Germany and France are disgusted with the U.S. with respects to it's involvement and handling of the affair using microphone diplomacy (as they know they too soon will be being the U.S. for astronomical gas and fertilizer rates).

Right now there is a huge fertilizer and gas shortage in Europe and they will soon be squeezed to the penny by either the U.S. or Russia, and the U.S. and Russia are each posturing to divide it up. That is what the Ukrainian's were insinuating.

Is anyone here from Ukraine? Care to post your isnights?
 
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I have been following the development of this news.
From Russia side, the Issue is NATO expansion, that is getting closer and closer to their border, in fact, former soviet Baltic states are now part of NATO, and Ukraine want also to join them. Since The Baltic states and Ukraine 's eastern border is adjacent at Russia's western also, It is worried that NATO can put an offensive weapon closer to Russia, if they are all NATO members, hence threaten Russia security. Although they try to convince Russia that NATO is a defensive alliance, Russia diplomats and leader seems to have skepticism that NATO 's ideal as a solely defensive military alliance can never be deviated, as in the past They have participated in war in Serbia, Lybia, and in the future, it is predicted that they might participate in an offensive military operation also.
USA and some european countries have prepared economic sanctions, if Russia invades.
This issue has been discussed at UN security council.
Some analyst says and the European leaders seem to be suspicious that Russian troops deployed at Ukraine border from the east, the south and the north is a preparation for an invasion but it is unconfirmed by Russia, saying it is only a military drill. However, the worry could be a military drill might become a real military operation should the supreme commander of Russia armed forces changed his mind.
Leaders have met in Moscow
Olaf Scholz, Chancellor of Germany with Vladimir Putin, President of Russia
Emmanuel Macron, President of France, with Vladimir Putin, President of Russia
Liz Truss, Foreign Secretary UK and Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affair, Russia
IMO, that the main Issue buzzed is potential invasion Russia troops to Ukraine but I don't think the main issue is potential war is between Ukraine and Russia. When we look closely at which leader is in exchange of threatening statement like economic sanction, "crossing the red lines", possibility of nuclear annihilation, the quarrel it is between NATO and Russia.
 
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Most of The media allege that Russia is going to invade Ukraine given the fact that Russia military outside Ukraine border Although Russia has declined this. If the media insist is their prediction is going to happen , they should tell the reasoning behind the allegation. If they couldn't give the reason why,
It could merely be a diversion from the main issue, and could be campaigned and buzzed so that Ukraine is encouraged to apply for NATO membership.

Russia demmand not to allow Ukraine join NATO , but NATO states that it has open door policy for membership so, this suggests this demmand is rejected by NATO. I guess Russia if war broke out didn't want to fight againts Ukraine for many reasons: they were former states in Soviet Union and a much older Kievan Rus, some culture like craftmanship are alike, may be they have many relatives there, some Ukrainian also even speak Russian. Those can be the reason they ask NATO not to accept Ukraine. This is understanable for Russia. However, Russia should do this from the Ukrainian side like persuade them not to apply for NATO membership if they don't want to fight against Russia for the same reasons, should war between NATO-Russia broke out.

Russia also demmand ex soviet states be barred from NATO. I was informed that former soviet states are called commonwealth of independent states. Although I don't really know the detail, The status and the relationship of the states must be different with non-commonwealth ones that perhaps Russia still have some rights and obligation to them that can not be neglected. So given the status, Russia demmand, should be taken into consideration. The term "commonwealth states" often suggests that their independence was given away by not armed-fights against their former Colonizer.
 

Indigo Rodent

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NATO is a defensive alliance specifically against Russia and countries who are trying to join NATO are doing it specifically to get protection from Russian imperialism, which just like Russian authoritarianism is something going back into centuries. Obviously Russia doesn't want potential victims to be protected from its aggression.

War between Russia and NATO isn't possible for obvious reasons. The main issue that Russia has is that countries that join NATO become immune to its aggression.

I was talking to several doctors I work with from Ukraine and they were telling me that that U.S. doesn't really want to help Ukraine. This entire thing is about who is going to sell Europe more gas and Ukraine unfortunately is being used as a decoy behind what is more a battle of big capitalist business - Russia might seem like it's not capitalist but it's an oligopoly (a capitalist market structure).

I really don't understand the details behind this but given that my friends are geniuses and have many relatives in Ukraine, I find their point of view enlightening. It would explain the political posturing of "coming to Ukraine's aid" as a form of compensation for really having no intentions to do so what so ever. This is also true on the other side - Russia has no intentions to invade but is using the prospect to goad it's own population into conforming towards its economic goals.
Who is talking about coming to Ukraine's aid? From what I understand all they can count on is intel and arms supplies which they are already getting.
NATO military forces are securing NATO's "eastern flank" (funny politically correct name for front) that is signalling Putin that he can't invade eastern NATO countries without starting a world war - one thing about WWII was that Hitler didn't expect western allies to honour their promises towards Poland and didn't expect it to turn into WWII.
 

Red Herring

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Speaking of Poland ... the Russian attacks don't just concern Eastern Ukraine and Donetzk and Luhanzk. There are reports of attacks all over the place including in Luzk and Lviv, that's quite close to the Polish border.
 

Blackmail!

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This is also true on the other side - Russia has no intentions to invade but is using the prospect to goad it's own population into conforming towards its economic goals.

With all due respect, your so called "genius" friends are complete, irresponsible morons, and History proves it. What is happening right now was in fact entirely predictable. I remember to have warned my own friends every year or so, that one day, given that Putin is completely insane, and since his propaganda is spread by an army of extreme-right trolls everywhere (even here, in Typo-C), he would eventually do this before he dies (the man is ill). Being able to read the Russian medias helps, as well as having the political clues to analyze a totalitarian posture and strategy (Cf Arendt), of course.


Now half or almost my family is bombarded daily in Kharkiv. Others are at any time to be arrested and imprisoned in Moscow.

I do not know if I can see them again one day.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Now half or almost my family is bombarded daily in Kharkiv. Others are at any time to be arrested and imprisoned in Moscow.

I do not know if I can see them again one day.
I am sorry to hear that. I have distant relatives (I'm not sure how exactly we are related) who still live in Belarus, and I've been thinking about them a bit. One of them has actually been living in the U.S for quite some time now and apparently was told not to return to visit (this was before the invasion) because it was too dangerous.

When I hear about troops moving through Belarus (since Lukashenko is a Russian puppet), it just seems kind of surreal to remember that I am connected to people in the region.

The Belarussians must be on paternal grandmother's side; she was actually born there.
 
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