[NT] Romantic Love = Mental Problem?

[TheLastMohican]

Brain scans have shown that the brain activity patterns of those who are in love are strikingly similar to the patterns of schizophrenics.
It is also widely known that those who are in love have a much greater tendency to do irrational things. Reason tends to fall by the wayside.

Knowing this, oughtn't we avoid it like the plague (or more accurately, like mind-altering drugs)?

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Brain scans have shown that the brain activity patterns of those who are in love are strikingly similar to the patterns of schizophrenics.
It is also widely known that those who are in love have a much greater tendency to do irrational things. Reason tends to fall by the wayside.

Knowing this, oughtn't we avoid it like the plague (or more accurately, like mind-altering drugs)?

That's like turning down a free Rolls-Royce because it has a scratch on the side.

 

[Recoleta]

Nah, that is why the company of reasonable and trustworthy friends and/or family is invaluable. I have no problem telling my friends that I think they are being stupid, and they provide me with that same luxury. And LOL...FM

 

[TheLastMohican]

That's like turning down a free Rolls-Royce because it has a scratch on the side.

On the contrary, I think it is like turning down a free Rolls-Royce with an unrepairable braking system. You can drive it around for a while, and it will be fun, but there an elevated risk of a deadly crash. Is it worth the risk?

If you think it is, why?

 

[nemo]

Life is meaningless anyway. You might as well enjoy those brief moments of insanity you find in intimacy. I hear they're worth it.

 

[Seanan]

Yeh, but the true schizo needs meds for life. The infactuation phase passes when real love sets in.

 

[Priam]

Yeh, but the true schizo needs meds for life. The infactuation phase passes when real love sets in.

Point I was gonna make. Brain scans show that "infatuation" is like a mental illness, but also that it fades rather rapidly on the timescale of a real relationship (usually within a couple months). Besides, activating the same brain areas as schizophrenia doesn't mean it makes them do the same thing.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

On the contrary, I think it is like turning down a free Rolls-Royce with an unrepairable braking system. You can drive it around for a while, and it will be fun, but there an elevated risk of a deadly crash. Is it worth the risk?

If you think it is, why?

Well, I was just being a smartass. My actual opinion is that evaluating love from a purely biological perspective is completely missing the point and misunderstanding the value of love. It's like evaluating the success of a trip to Las Vegas solely on the basis of money won or lost. It's like measuring the volume of a bucket with a thermometer.

I might also suggest that what from a scientific perspective appears illogical or schizophrenic behavior may in fact simply be behavior motivated by love instead of self-interest. If you and another person were both bitten by a snake and you had only one dose of antitdote, wouldn't it be considered illogical to give the antidote to the other person? What if that person were your wife? One man's "deadly crash" is another man's ultimate act of love.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Yeh, but the true schizo needs meds for life. The infactuation phase passes when real love sets in.

True, very true. Therefore, you could view the temporary insanity of early romance to be a necessary risk involved in the progression towards a stable long-term relationship.

To make my POV clear: I have never been in love, and I do not have any desire to pursue it. My preference has been strongly reinforced by the recent discoveries, since I will always avoid anything that I know will adversely affect my thinking. I view it similarly to addictive drugs.

And so it is with some bewilderment that I watch other people actually seeking love, even though it is known to make them irrational. Perhaps it is addictive. The brain patterns observed included sensations of euphoria, and maybe once a person has felt it, he feels like he needs more.

Anyway, I posted this thread out of curiosity about why others do this. I do not have much authority on the subject, so I am not trying to declare you all insane. I just want to know why.

 

[aeon]

Brain scans have shown that the brain activity patterns of those who are in love are strikingly similar to the patterns of schizophrenics.

Visual similarity of scans of the cortex between and among different mental states do not indicate similarity between and among the states themselves.

It is also widely known that those who are in love have a much greater tendency to do irrational things. Reason tends to fall by the wayside.

Do you have data in support of this assertion?

Regardless, rationality and reason are but a part of life and the experience of the world. Such an experience as love transcends these things.

Knowing this, oughtn't we avoid it like the plague (or more accurately, like mind-altering drugs)?

I don't value oughts, shoulds, and supposed-tos.

Alterations to the state and nature of the brain, whether by life experience or chemistry, are just that - alterations. The decision to make or experience such alterations are up to the individual(s) in question - there is no inherent value in those alterations themselves.

Based on my knowledge of the neurophysiology and endocrinology of the experience of love, it seems to promote well-being of the human being, even if it is an experience that does not fall within the more limited bounds of the rational mind.


cheers,
Ian

 

[Wandering]

Therefore, you could view the temporary insanity of early romance to be a necessary risk involved in the progression towards a stable long-term relationship.

NT :yim_rolling_on_the_!!!

To make my POV clear: I have never been in love, and I do not have any desire to pursue it. My preference has been strongly reinforced by the recent discoveries, since I will always avoid anything that I know will adversely affect my thinking.

Adversely in the short run, maybe. But the benefits to your thinking in the long run are invaluable. There are entire aspects of the human experience and psyche that you will never be able to even imagine if you don't understand infatuation.

And so it is with some bewilderment that I watch other people actually seeking love, even though it is known to make them irrational.

Believe it or not, but many people do NOT consider being rational to be the highest form of living

Perhaps it is addictive.

It is.

I just want to know why.

INJ, definitely. You're one person whose type cannot be disputed, for sure INJ+NT = INTJ!

So anyway: why? Coz it's pleasant, exhilarating, informative, motivating, good for the heart/arteries/the whole body, and a thousand other things

 

[Hexis]

Life is meaningless anyway. You might as well enjoy those brief moments of insanity you find in intimacy. I hear they're worth it.

Thanks for the optimism Nemo! LMAO

True story though...

 

[Magic Poriferan]

All kinds of good stuff has dramatic effects on our brains.
I presume infatuation to be a product of evolution that probably has a very valuable purpose.
From everything I can gather, human beings did not evolve in favor of a social structure like Chimps, Bonobos, or Gorillas. Love probably plays a part in that fact.

 

[nightning]

Correlation is not causality. You can make the opposite claim that schizophrenics are in love with themselves... inside their mind.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

To make my POV clear: I have never been in love, and I do not have any desire to pursue it. My preference has been strongly reinforced by the recent discoveries, since I will always avoid anything that I know will adversely affect my thinking.

1. Any time you entertain a new theory, concept or activity you run the risk of affecting your thinking. You run the risk of changing your opinion or decision-making process. But that is to your benefit...more information is always better when making decisions, unless you're confident that your logical mind has evolved as much as it needs to.

2. Have you ever ridden a roller coaster? Had an alcoholic beverage? Eaten chocolate? All these things affect your brain chemistry in a way similar to a drug and change your thinking temporarily. Why is it that you reserve your disapproval for love?

3. Love will affect your thinking, no doubt. But is it necessarily adverse? Even putting aside the considerable and well-documented mental and physical benefits of a romantic relationship, it can only help your understanding of others by putting you in their shoes. This makes your thinking more effective. From a purely logical standpoint, that doesn't sound adverse to me. These are all tangible benefits, and you're balancing them against a murky kind of lovesick brain lock that you haven't fully explained or given an example of. What kinds of decisions are you afraid to make "under the influence of love"?


Yes, I swear I'm an INTJ

 

[Ivy]

IMO it's not unreasonable to avoid making life-altering decisions during the chemical rush of new love, but I don't see any reason to avoid love altogether because you're kind of drunk on it for awhile.

As for why... that question seems almost absurd to me. It's a part of the human experience. I don't see any reason to fear or avoid it.

 

[Kiddo]

I think the OP might be a little misrepresentative. Dopamine is the culprit here. It's the neurotransmitter that is found in high quantities in those who are schizophrenic and those who are in love. Dopamine is associated with the pleasure center of the brain; the area that has to deal with rewards and motivation. It also controls the flow of information in the frontal lobes, which is the center of our neurocognitive functions.

Dopamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Avoiding love would be like trying to avoid classical conditioning. It just isn't possible.

The phasic responses of dopamine neurons are observed when an unexpected reward is presented. These responses transfer to the onset of a conditioned stimulus after repeated pairings with the reward. Further, dopamine neurons are depressed when the expected reward is omitted. Thus, dopamine neurons seem to encode the prediction error of rewarding outcomes. In nature, we learn to repeat behaviors that lead to maximize rewards. Dopamine is therefore believed to provide a teaching signal to parts of the brain responsible for acquiring new behavior.

 

[Domino]

Life is meaningless anyway. You might as well enjoy those brief moments of insanity you find in intimacy. I hear they're worth it.

I hear it's worth while too. To my knowledge, I've never been in love, but I know what it's done for others, how it makes them feel. Joining your energy to someone else's can be all the difference between making it and going under sometimes.

 

[SillySapienne]

Life is meaningless anyway. You might as well enjoy those brief moments of insanity you find in intimacy. I hear they're worth it.

 

[TheLastMohican]

NT :yim_rolling_on_the_!!!


Adversely in the short run, maybe. But the benefits to your thinking in the long run are invaluable. There are entire aspects of the human experience and psyche that you will never be able to even imagine if you don't understand infatuation.


Believe it or not, but many people do NOT consider being rational to be the highest form of living


It is.


INJ, definitely. You're one person whose type cannot be disputed, for sure INJ+NT = INTJ!

So anyway: why? Coz it's pleasant, exhilarating, informative, motivating, good for the heart/arteries/the whole body, and a thousand other things

Whoa, I did sound like some kind of verbose professor in paragraph.
I guess that is why you found my being an NT so funny?

Well, I would have a greater understanding of human thought. But is it worth it? I could also have a greater understanding of a homicidal psychopath's mind if I was caused to think like him for a month or two, but I simply do not want to understand it. If something is irrational, all there is to understand is that you don't want to be so corrupted as to be able to understand it. (Does that make any sense?)

Okay, rephrase: When I say "understand," I mean to be able to think that the irrational thought process makes sense, and to be able to use that thought process to reason, just as those who have it naturally do. If you meant being unable to comprehend the logic of the illogical, but being able to predict the outcome of the illogical reasoning, that's a different matter.

Okay, next: The highest form of living. Those who are irrational probably enjoy life more most of the time. Ignorance is bliss for those who suffer from it. In my case, though, I would know what I once had, and would feel the loss of my rational quality.

So love is addictive. Now I know.

All right, I understand your point. People like to be in love. But then they complain when it doesn't work out, and a great deal of emotional upheaval results when the love is over. What if it causes more pain than pleasure? Overall, would most people have been happier if they hadn't gotten into the vicious circle in the first place?