Random Movie Thoughts Thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

 

[Totenkindly]

So yet another eh Shyamalan film -- Trap (2024). It has some interesting elements to it, but it never really ultimately stands out and often seems like a house of contrivance that threatens to fall over with the slightest puff of song.

It's also another case of Shyamalan Nepo baby -- his eldest daughter (a singer) ends up writing 14 songs for this film (a whole album's worth) and then stars in a hefty portion of it, in a cushy role. I think she's adequate and this film doesn't fail because of her, but it's just funny that this film almost double as a demo reel for her to get a lot more exposure for her musical ability, versus just being a film.

The film actually does answer its most perplexing question about 60% of the way through the film, after the plot has been left seeming dumb because of it -- Why are the FBI and police suspecting that the serial killer is at this concert, if they do not already know the killer's identity? -- but Trap never really proves itself to be that smart, not nearly as much as it pretends to be. A lot of Cooper's behavior in the first half could have easily got him caught and/or attracted unwanted attention, and his Hail Mary pass to get out of the "trap" is just flabbergastingly bizarre because it immediately ensures that he will (eventually) be caught, versus taking his chances.

I was wondering why Alison Pill would be cast in such a small and faceless role for this film, that literally anyone could have stood in for, until the last ten minutes of the film and then it's clear they needed someone of her caliber to sell that ending hard (and, to her credit, she hits it out of the park -- oh, if only the script she had to act was actually more deserving).

As with most Shyamalan films after his first sweet early pics, he seems far more interested in shock value and pseudo-smartness than actual meat. There's actually some good ideas in here, such as how complicit might a spouse be when they are married to a criminal, or the benefits of social media and someone with immense presence being able to accomplish an impossible tasks quickly that cannot be solved by other means. But even the ending feels trivial and dumb. There's no real meat here, nor enough substance to make one think about this film after it ends.

 

[The Cat]

I think the last one I really liked was Lady in the Water. But Im a sucker for modern fairy tales. Its why I saw the watchers, but that movie doesnt trust the audience to be able to figure anything out so everything is spoon fed through dialogue.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think the last one I really liked was Lady in the Water. But Im a sucker for modern fairy tales. Its why I saw the watchers, but that movie doesnt trust the audience to be able to figure anything out so everything is spoon fed through dialogue.

Yeah I was really disappointed with that, as it could have been a great World of Darkness entry.

Do they really think about creating real character arcs anymore?

It just felt like an, ooh, look how creative I am as I explain everything about this film rather than using it to better develop character.

I am hopeful that the parrot will live a better life.

Oh look, a parrot... and the monsters parrot people. So brilliant

 

[The Cat]

Yeah I was really disappointed with that, as it could have been a great World of Darkness entry.

Do they really think about creating real character arcs anymore?

It just felt like an, ooh, look how creative I am as I explain everything about this film rather than using it to better develop character.

I am hopeful that the parrot will live a better life.

Oh look, a parrot... and the monsters parrot people. So brilliant

Yeah I really wanted to like it. I think Ill check out the book its based on when i have some time.

Its definitely something that will work in Chronicles of Darkness. I decided to add the scinario to my Midnight Roads campaign and instead of talking the players through every little thing, I'm gonna let them try to figure out wtf is going on and how the fuck to get out. I dont think my group saw the movie, but obviously ill change some things jic but the premise is just a perfect chronicle scenario.

 

[The Cat]

Oh look, a parrot... and the monsters parrot people. So brilliant

The Shyamalan family must be a lot like the McFly's in the first part of the movie.​

 

[Totenkindly]

The Shyamalan family must be a lot like the McFly's in the first part of the movie.​

Coupled with the peanut brittle shower, that is brilliant brilliant brilliant

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think the last one I really liked was Lady in the Water. But Im a sucker for modern fairy tales. Its why I saw the watchers, but that movie doesnt trust the audience to be able to figure anything out so everything is spoon fed through dialogue.

I liked that one too. I didn't like the twist in The Village, and found it predictable, like everyone else. It would have been a better movie without the twist. It also seemed a little derivative of Brotherhood of the Wolf. This one, I think, dispensed with a twist and told a straightforward but unusual story. Shamalyan's cameo as well as what he (as the writer of the film) did with Balaban's movie critic was self-indulgent nonsense, though.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

 

[The Cat]

I liked that one too. I didn't like the twist in The Village, and found it predictable, like everyone else. It would have been a better movie without the twist. It also seemed a little derivative of Brotherhood of the Wolf. This one, I think, dispensed with a twist and told a straightforward but unusual story. Shamalyan's cameo as well as what he (as the writer of the film) did with Balaban's movie critic was self-indulgent nonsense, though.

Ther WAS NO TWIST in the village. For there to have been a twist, you would have had to not been paying attention at all. I sat through that whole movie, expecting that the famous shaymalin twist was gonna be that the monsters actually werent just what they were, but the nobody would actually know that. I fucking never wanted monsters to be real more in my life I dont think.

 

[Totenkindly]

Got my 4K of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind last week, and finally got to watch it this morning. I have not seen it in some years. It is a really nice transfer with healthy film grain, I'm glad Kino Lorber did the release, they've got a really decent track record for 4K conversions.

It's one of those films where I can tear up just over one line or moment, repeatedly, throughout the film. It is also a film centered around the rare emotion of regret. Joel quickly regrets agreeing to wipe his memories of Clem in retaliation for what she did to him, and spends most of the film trying to derail the process. As he is forced to recall so many old individual memories of their life together, he feels regret not only for wiping them but for all the times he responded in the moment rather than having a broader perspective and maybe choosing his words and actions differently. With my coming from a background of a long relationship with someone who was my opposite in many ways, resulting in a lot of this inevitable friction and watching good intentions regularly burn to the ground, I so much got it -- how you can wish for things to be different, how you actually love this person on some levels because there are some really GOOD memories in there, yet also find each other extremely frustrating to deal with and in the moment it often generates such pain and negativity.

The thing that really makes the film shine is that we get at least two other important subplots that put the operation into perspective. One involves the bad actorship of Patrick, who takes advantage of Joel's wipe to manipulate another (and even just unprofessional behavior by himself, Stewart, and Mary -- are these the people you want messing around in your mind?), and the other is the revelation about Dr. Mierzwiak, which again makes you wonder about the moral essence of this procedure and how it can be abused by people to make their lives simpler or less painful. Maybe we wish we could forgot our past pain and bad experiences, but at the same time, what are we losing in the process? There's also a relationship in the film (Rob & Carrie Eakin, Joel's friends) who seem to have a volatile relationship and yet stay together -- they are a counterpoint in that there must be something they value in their marriage where they stay together anyway, despite the occasional outbursts. ... And Kaufman's script is marvelous because it weaves all this effortlessly into the dialogue, mostly as minimally as possible, without detracting from the main plot throughline. it's there to be observed but never feels heavy-handed or fake.

I think it's ironic how despite forgetting each other, Joel and Clem are drawn back together again without much effort. They just resonate with each other and recognize each other on some level. This is no means validates they "should be together" and it's very likely that trying again will result in more pain and perhaps even failure... but I have hope that their past experience once recalled gives them something they did not have before: Acceptance. Knowing that despite all the pain, they have chosen to try again because there were things there that they valued just might in the future help them accept the bad as the "cost" of being together versus used as a reason to abandon the good.

I like the film for the honesty and integrity of the dialogue, for flipping the typecasting of Winslet and Carrey (and hell, even Wood!), for being willing to show the messy aspect of long-term relationships, and for not forcing premature closure. We don't know how Clem and Joel will end up. But we see them at least accept the good and the bad as they try to make it work.

Jon Brion's music and the soundtrack is really nice -- err, I mean "I had the best fucking time I've ever had in my fucking life listening to it!" to favor Clem over Joel here.

 

[Totenkindly]

I liked that one too. I didn't like the twist in The Village, and found it predictable, like everyone else.

Which twist? There were a few lol. If you mean the one at the very end... then yeah, that was like, gawd, not again.

Despite my criticisms of "Trap," and despite the nepotism involved, Shyamalan's predictable "cameo" actually is okay in that film. it doesn't overstay its welcome, he doesn't make himself the profound center of anything, and if you didn't know who he was, it would just feel like an extra having a few lines. His cameo in "Sixth Sense" is okay too. Most of his others have sucked.

I really liked the first 30-40 minutes of "The Village" and then after all the twists start dropping, it just gets dumber and dumber. Such a great color palette too.

I never did get to watch "Lady in the Water" yet and am surprised you both like it so much, since it's considered overall to be one of his most self-indulgent, worst films. I will have to watch it at some point, I guess.

Ther WAS NO TWIST in the village. For there to have been a twist, you would have had to not been paying attention at all. I sat through that whole movie, expecting that the famous shaymalin twist was gonna be that the monsters actually werent just what they were, but the nobody would actually know that. I fucking never wanted monsters to be real more in my life I dont think.

If THAT is the twist that was meant, sure.

Oh, there were monsters. But they were just us. Kind of.

 

[The Cat]

Which twist? There were a few lol. If you mean the one at the very end... then yeah, that was like, gawd, not again.

Despite my criticisms of "Trap," and despite the nepotism involved, Shyamalan's predictable "cameo" actually is okay in that film. it doesn't overstay its welcome, he doesn't make himself the profound center of anything, and if you didn't know who he was, it would just feel like an extra having a few lines. His cameo in "Sixth Sense" is okay too. Most of his others have sucked.

I really liked the first 30-40 minutes of "The Village" and then after all the twists start dropping, it just gets dumber and dumber. Such a great color palette too.

I never did get to watch "Lady in the Water" yet and am surprised you both like it so much, since it's considered overall to be one of his most self-indulgent, worst films. I will have to watch it at some point, I guess.


If THAT is the twist that was meant, sure.

Oh, there were monsters. But they were just us. Kind of.

I didnt want to spoil it for the person who hasnt seen it yet. Life out from under the rock is probably overwhelming to them. But I didnt consider it a spoiler. They practically scream it at the camera the whole movie.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

Speaking of...​

 

[Totenkindly]

Lol, glad I wasn't the only one.

Nepo Baby's music is okay, her acting is okay. IOW, she can handle herself fine and it wasn't offensive; but she's not like Tier A or anything. Reviews of her musical ability seem to see her as fine but not cutting-edge and perhaps 10-20 years behind the times (lol).

One thing I'll disagree with Trap Pitch about is that I don't think they had a literal description of the killer. They were planning to interview all 1500-3000 men trying to leave this concert to see if anyone scoped out funny. Yeah, that's a blast, right? But much of the other criticisms are accurate. The plotting is actually that stupid when you take a moment to think about how stupid it is. It's handled a bit more deftly inside the film, so it's not necessarily so obvious.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If THAT is the twist that was meant, sure.

Oh, there were monsters. But they were just us. Kind of.

Yeah, that was what I meant. That was lame and disappointing. The movie was good up until that reveal. The reveal at the end didn't really register compared to that.

Lady in the Water is self-indulgent, but I was able to get past that and enjoy the movie.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Got my 4K of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind last week, and finally got to watch it this morning. I have not seen it in some years. It is a really nice transfer with healthy film grain, I'm glad Kino Lorber did the release, they've got a really decent track record for 4K conversions.

It's one of those films where I can tear up just over one line or moment, repeatedly, throughout the film. It is also a film centered around the rare emotion of regret. Joel quickly regrets agreeing to wipe his memories of Clem in retaliation for what she did to him, and spends most of the film trying to derail the process. As he is forced to recall so many old individual memories of their life together, he feels regret not only for wiping them but for all the times he responded in the moment rather than having a broader perspective and maybe choosing his words and actions differently. With my coming from a background of a long relationship with someone who was my opposite in many ways, resulting in a lot of this inevitable friction and watching good intentions regularly burn to the ground, I so much got it -- how you can wish for things to be different, how you actually love this person on some levels because there are some really GOOD memories in there, yet also find each other extremely frustrating to deal with and in the moment it often generates such pain and negativity.

The thing that really makes the film shine is that we get at least two other important subplots that put the operation into perspective. One involves the bad actorship of Patrick, who takes advantage of Joel's wipe to manipulate another (and even just unprofessional behavior by himself, Stewart, and Mary -- are these the people you want messing around in your mind?), and the other is the revelation about Dr. Mierzwiak, which again makes you wonder about the moral essence of this procedure and how it can be abused by people to make their lives simpler or less painful. Maybe we wish we could forgot our past pain and bad experiences, but at the same time, what are we losing in the process? There's also a relationship in the film (Rob & Carrie Eakin, Joel's friends) who seem to have a volatile relationship and yet stay together -- they are a counterpoint in that there must be something they value in their marriage where they stay together anyway, despite the occasional outbursts. ... And Kaufman's script is marvelous because it weaves all this effortlessly into the dialogue, mostly as minimally as possible, without detracting from the main plot throughline. it's there to be observed but never feels heavy-handed or fake.

I think it's ironic how despite forgetting each other, Joel and Clem are drawn back together again without much effort. They just resonate with each other and recognize each other on some level. This is no means validates they "should be together" and it's very likely that trying again will result in more pain and perhaps even failure... but I have hope that their past experience once recalled gives them something they did not have before: Acceptance. Knowing that despite all the pain, they have chosen to try again because there were things there that they valued just might in the future help them accept the bad as the "cost" of being together versus used as a reason to abandon the good.

I like the film for the honesty and integrity of the dialogue, for flipping the typecasting of Winslet and Carrey (and hell, even Wood!), for being willing to show the messy aspect of long-term relationships, and for not forcing premature closure. We don't know how Clem and Joel will end up. But we see them at least accept the good and the bad as they try to make it work.

Jon Brion's music and the soundtrack is really nice -- err, I mean "I had the best fucking time I've ever had in my fucking life listening to it!" to favor Clem over Joel here.

This movie is so rich. There's enough for the viewer's own feelings to color how they see the movie. It's almost like watching a different movie each time. When I first saw it, I interpreted as a romantic fantasy. Later, I interpreted it as having a much more pessimistic outlook; they will keep getting back together, only for it to end the same.

I think my last viewing was a little similar to yours, although I cannot be sure. It seems like I often only remember the bad in a relationship, but then, when I stop and think, I can remember the good moments I had forgotten. That's similar as to what happens to Joel over the course of the movie.

I hadn't really considered how Rob & Carrie fit into it.

I also wonder if the only thing people want to forget are romantic relationships. That's all we hear about because of the focus of the film, but surely that cannot be the only thing patients come in for, right?

 

[Totenkindly]

This movie is so rich. There's enough for the viewer's own feelings to color how they see the movie. It's almost like watching a different movie each time. When I first saw it, I interpreted as a romantic fantasy. Later, I interpreted it as having a much more pessimistic outlook; they will keep getting back together, only for it to end the same.

Yup. Although I think that is realistic to the complexity of the relationship -- they are opposites attracting each other, but this causes inevitable friction and disappointment even if the novelty of it and their balancing out each other's weaknesses seems fulfilling in some ways.

I think relationships sour when differences are met with disdain. When they can be appreciated, the relationship can at least have a chance to thrive. But when you start viewing your partner as an impediment to your happiness, well...

I hadn't really considered how Rob & Carrie fit into it.

I think they are a counterpoint. It's like they always seem to be having these quick blowups at each other -- but the act of expressing their frustration actually seems like a safety release valve that enables them to stay together, as best I can tell.

I also wonder if the only thing people want to forget are romantic relationships. That's all we hear about because of the focus of the film, but surely that cannot be the only thing patients come in for, right?

When Joel goes in with his bags of stuff, the woman on his left has a box of things belonging to a dog called "Buster" (it must have died recently), and the guy on his right has a box with a bowling trophy or something sticking out of it -- I don't know whether it is mementos of a lost loved one or just recalling some part of his life he no longer can perform, so he wants to eradicate the memory of it (?).

So yes, it's not just breakups.

edit: Oh, as I hinted about the doctor

he tells Mary, "You wanted the procedure, you wanted it done, so you could get past, well..." when his wife finds them, he made it sound like it was her idea because she couldn't deal. I'm not sure he is being entirely honest. The truth seems somewhere in-between. When Mary finds her tape, she listens to it and hears herself trying to provide info for the process, and then she breaks down and says," Oh I can't do this," and then he says in a kind of tired way, "we agreed it was for the best, Mary." Which automatically makes him part of the decision, instead of it being entirely hers, and NOW if you really think about how this kind of thing goes, it's like she's in love with an older man who has authority over her (he's her boss), and it starts to really scan like he kind of pressured her into it to save his own marriage and she only agreed because (1) she's in love with him and wants to please him and (2) she's in a lot of emotional pain to never be with him. I really like the subtext here, and it kind of explains why, when she listens to the tape, she suddenly grabs ALL the files and mails them back to people, undoing his work and undermining his business. Because she felt like he took advantage of her and she didn't even realize it because her mind had been wiped. What he does is no longer a positive thing to her, it's a procedure rife with abuse.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

edit: Oh, as I hinted about the doctor

he tells Mary, "You wanted the procedure, you wanted it done, so you could get past, well..." when his wife finds them, he made it sound like it was her idea because she couldn't deal. I'm not sure he is being entirely honest. The truth seems somewhere in-between. When Mary finds her tape, she listens to it and hears herself trying to provide info for the process, and then she breaks down and says," Oh I can't do this," and then he says in a kind of tired way, "we agreed it was for the best, Mary." Which automatically makes him part of the decision, instead of it being entirely hers, and NOW if you really think about how this kind of thing goes, it's like she's in love with an older man who has authority over her (he's her boss), and it starts to really scan like he kind of pressured her into it to save his own marriage and she only agreed because (1) she's in love with him and wants to please him and (2) she's in a lot of emotional pain to never be with him. I really like the subtext here, and it kind of explains why, when she listens to the tape, she suddenly grabs ALL the files and mails them back to people, undoing his work and undermining his business. Because she felt like he took advantage of her and she didn't even realize it because her mind had been wiped. What he does is no longer a positive thing to her, it's a procedure rife with abuse.

I completely forgot about the fact that we do see patients other than the major characters. I remember the woman with the dead dog, now. I definitely don't think it's a good idea to forget a dead loved one. I mean, it hasn't really happened to me like that yet, and I'm sure it will be painful when it does, but I still think I'd want to remember them.

It never seemed like Mary did it out of revenge to me. It's more like she realizes that there's something fundamentally wrong with the very idea of the procedure. Maybe that's what you're saying, though.