Question about S + N in relationship

[psyche]

I'm eNFJ and my partner is ISTJ. The N/S difference is where we struggle. Any tips for relating across this difference? Thanks!

 

[Tamske]

I'm ENTP and my husband is ESTJ. Our hardest conflicts are in the J/P part... but still we're able to talk them out... in an analysing T manner.

N vs S: I tend to get enthousiastic about abstract ideas while he's down to earth and realistic.

I guess we get along because we know about the difference and don't really worry about it... like, whenever I make a thought jump he says something like "Whoa, Tamske, where are you talking about? You really need a warning sign for those jumps of yours!"
So a first tip... realise when you're making a jump and try to bridge it or at least warn your partner about it.

Another N versus S thing... I've depicted it in the "MBTI comics" thread... I've worried a lot about 'not loving him' because I couldn't keep my attention on his presence. Now I know it's not a love problem - only a living-in-the-future N problem. Make your partner enjoy your presence and don't worry about you enjoying his/her presence... you will enjoy the memory of his/her presence. (Maybe this is only the case for Ne and a bit of Si users - NPs)

Our N versus S difference is a source of laughing and attraction, not a source of problems. Maybe you can diminish the problems by explicitly pointing to the differences and laughing about them.

 

[highlander]

I'm eNFJ and my partner is ISTJ. The N/S difference is where we struggle. Any tips for relating across this difference? Thanks!

In a long term relationship, the N vs. S thing is the most problematic of all. I think F vs. T, is not only normal but workable. J vs. P or E vs. I has its challenges no doubt, but variety is the spice of life. I wish I had a better answer on this but it has been a problem I have had for a long time and am still challenged with.

The best recommendation I have is to do your utmost to understand and appreciate each other for what and who you are. It may be harder for the ISTJ.

 

[Saslou]

I'm eNFJ and my partner is ISTJ. The N/S difference is where we struggle. Any tips for relating across this difference? Thanks!

I am in the very early stages of a relationship although knowing the person for quite a few years .. He is more into MBTI than i am and he is an N and me an S. He makes a very good point though .. I may be a strong sensor, but he sees moments of intuitiveness in me .. Just as he is a intuitive and i see moments of sensor behaviour ..

Are we different? Oh yeah. Can we still learn from each other? Darn straight we can.

I don't see the N/S as a barrier .. I accept it for what it is and embrace it.

There is only a problem there if you choose to view it as a problem .. Me, i am just using it to my advantage.

 

[21%]

I think N types look for a kind of abstract connection, while S types look for a 'real world' connection. So to both parties, it could feel like the other is not being there for them. The N might get frustrated by the S's lack of interest in discussing abstract ideas, and feel like they are not being understood on a deeper level, as if they are just being loved for who they are on the surface. The S gets annoyed by the N's (especially NF's) strive for perfection, for ideals that are irrelevant, and don't understand why the N can't just work with the reality and be content with it.

N: There's something more, something better, truer and more meaningful out there. I can't believe you don't even care about that.
S: This is how life is. Happiness is attainable, so why can't we just realistically work towards it and appreciate what we do have.

However, if you are both committed to making it work, it can be great. The N will help the S not to get too 'stuck' in 'what is' and the S can be a solid link to the reality for the N to hold on to. You might not always understand each other completely, but as long as you appreciate each other's strength and accept that you can be different without being superior or inferior, you can bring the best of both worlds into the relationship.

 

[BlackCat]

I think that J/P is the biggest divide, not S/N. Also, congrats on finding your dual!

But I think that you just need to adapt to how they see things, and they need to adapt to how you see things. People blow this issue majorly out of proportion, while it's so easy to correct. J/P is byfar is the hardest to adjust to, since both people will fundamentally disagree on and conflict with the other's lifestyle/decision making style.

But with my N friends I have to realize that they aren't trying to annoy me when they jump to conclusions and assume things. And they usually have to realize that they have to dumb down some conversations. Since I'm just fundamentally not interested in a lot of theory that doesn't apply to reality, or stuff that isn't useful/won't do anything positive.

What exactly is the problem that you're facing though? People talk about being frustrated with not being able to talk about random theory with their S friends... couldn't they just do that with other Ns or on the internet?

 

[psyche]

Gosh, I really wasn't expecting so much thoughtful and useful feedback. Thank you all for your posts -- they're incredibly helpful.

21%: You hit the nail on the head with this comment, which is exactly how I can think: N: There's something more, something better, truer and more meaningful out there. I can't believe you don't even care about that.

Tamske: You're so right about enjoying memories as opposed to the present moment (often, though not always).

I appreciate the attitude that differences in this area can be mutually beneficial.

To clarify a bit more (and BlackCat, you asked about this, and it's a good question)....The real problem is on my end, not his:

I believe I can communicate with Sensors pretty well, and my partner would agree. Being a Judger and having a strong 3 wing (Enneagram) makes me pretty linear. Plus, my job requires a lot of linear thinking. My partner doesn't find me too abstract or my thoughts too flighty.

Having said that, I am an iNtuitive and very much need conversation that stimulates me. Both my job and my friendships provide me with ample opportunity to communicate as an iNtuitive, so I'm pretty satiated in that area and am not looking for too much from my partner. But I do want to be able to have more authentic conversations with him, to explore ideas a bit more deeply than we do, to share with each other on a more personal level, to know that he's open to understanding the underlying systems that cause the effects he notices as a Sensor.

I feel bored by our conversation at times, or lack thereof, and worry that this difference in our temperaments is irreconcilable. I want a bit more connection with him. It's complicated by the fact that he doesn't express his feelings without great effort. I'd like to know that he can stretch into my world as an iNtuitive, as I've stretched into his world. I also want to know that we can find a middle ground somehow.

BlackCat, you're a Sensor yet I find your comments thought-provoking and stimulating in a way that's different from my partner's and I'm trying to figure out why this is. Any thoughts? Perhaps our strong shared interest in typology?

 

[psyche]

Also, BlackCat -- you say this difference is easily correctable. How so? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Another thing is that I have very limited tolerance for highly abstract theorizing and for ideas that aren't applicable in a practical way. But I do very much like thinking about connections, relationships, systems, and "broader" ideas that I can then break down and apply to my life (and I am a theorist; it's part of my job to develop and analyze theory). The Enneagram is a great example: it's a system that can be deconstructed and directly applied to daily life.

 

[psyche]

In a long term relationship, the N vs. S thing is the most problematic of all. I think F vs. T, is not only normal but workable. J vs. P or E vs. I has its challenges no doubt, but variety is the spice of life. I wish I had a better answer on this but it has been a problem I have had for a long time and am still challenged with.

The best recommendation I have is to do your utmost to understand and appreciate each other for what and who you are. It may be harder for the ISTJ.

It's interesting that you say this. I think it's harder for my ISTJ to think like an iNtuitive than it is for me to think like a Sensor, but it's harder for me to accept and feel comfortable with the S/N difference than it is for him.....

 

[psyche]

I am in the very early stages of a relationship although knowing the person for quite a few years .. He is more into MBTI than i am and he is an N and me an S. He makes a very good point though .. I may be a strong sensor, but he sees moments of intuitiveness in me .. Just as he is a intuitive and i see moments of sensor behaviour ..

Are we different? Oh yeah. Can we still learn from each other? Darn straight we can.

I don't see the N/S as a barrier .. I accept it for what it is and embrace it.

There is only a problem there if you choose to view it as a problem .. Me, i am just using it to my advantage.

Reading posts like this I'm starting to wonder (for the first time ever) whether the S/N difference is really the problem or whether I'm barking up the wrong tree. If my partner were to communicate like you do, here, in this post, or like BlackCat, just as examples, I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with our communication. There is a marked difference in how you two communicate as Sensors and how my partner does....

 

[ElusiveRain]

My marriage may have failed because of this issue, so I think, perhaps, I should give a couple of thoughts on the matter.

The S/N difference, I feel, is more of a problem for the N (especially an NF), because they are searching for a 'soulmate'--Someone they can connect with on a deeper level, and someone who matches them, heart and soul. An S will not be able to understand this need, and this connection will not happen. All types have a bit of abstract in them, so it may appear in a Sensor partner from time to time, but eventually the S will grow tired of reaching past the tangible, and the N will feel as though the S doesn't care. The S usually does not have an issue with the N relationship, because day-to-day life is satisfying for them. They will need nothing more.

Expecting an S to have the desire to connect on a theoretical level can drive an iNtuitive insane, and make the Sensor feel, well, attacked, I guess. I'm not sure if this would have helped or not, but if I had realized my partner was not interested in speaking in abstracts (and was also aware that was indeed what I was trying to do), it may have worked out. Even with that understanding, however, that much needed connection for the N would never materialize. Others on here have said that the need for abstract connection may be fulfilled through N type friends outside the relationship, so perhaps there is hope for an N-S pairing if the N doesn't expect to find that connection with their own partner.

psyche--It may appear to you that there is a communication breakdown in your relationship due to the intriguing thoughts from the Sensors here, but these Sensors are communicating something they, individually, have found to be real and relevant. If psychology theory is where you can connect, maybe you can see if your partner is interested. Just a thought.

 

[BlackCat]

To clarify a bit more (and BlackCat, you asked about this, and it's a good question)....The real problem is on my end, not his:

I believe I can communicate with Sensors pretty well, and my partner would agree. Being a Judger and having a strong 3 wing (Enneagram) makes me pretty linear. Plus, my job requires a lot of linear thinking. My partner doesn't find me too abstract or my thoughts too flighty.

Having said that, I am an iNtuitive and very much need conversation that stimulates me. Both my job and my friendships provide me with ample opportunity to communicate as an iNtuitive, so I'm pretty satiated in that area and am not looking for too much from my partner. But I do want to be able to have more authentic conversations with him, to explore ideas a bit more deeply than we do, to share with each other on a more personal level, to know that he's open to understanding the underlying systems that cause the effects he notices as a Sensor.

I feel bored by our conversation at times, or lack thereof, and worry that this difference in our temperaments is irreconcilable. I want a bit more connection with him. It's complicated by the fact that he doesn't express his feelings without great effort. I'd like to know that he can stretch into my world as an iNtuitive, as I've stretched into his world. I also want to know that we can find a middle ground somehow.

BlackCat, you're a Sensor yet I find your comments thought-provoking and stimulating in a way that's different from my partner's and I'm trying to figure out why this is. Any thoughts? Perhaps our strong shared interest in typology?

Also, BlackCat -- you say this difference is easily correctable. How so? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Another thing is that I have very limited tolerance for highly abstract theorizing and for ideas that aren't applicable in a practical way. But I do very much like thinking about connections, relationships, systems, and "broader" ideas that I can then break down and apply to my life (and I am a theorist; it's part of my job to develop and analyze theory). The Enneagram is a great example: it's a system that can be deconstructed and directly applied to daily life.

Hmm. Well it seems like he needs to reach more into your world. What shared interests do you have? I personally cannot function in a relationship where I don't have anything to talk about with my partner (like you). He needs to do some work with that if you have reached into his world and he hasn't really reached into yours.

Both people will need to take some measures to fix S/N. As I've mentioned, get him to reach more into your world. You seem to have adjusted well. The S will need to take interest in something the N likes for them to have some sort of conversation.

It's not really actual talking that seems to be a big part of the S/N wall. It's the actual communication and the pitfalls of it. An S may get frustrated easily with ambiguities coming from an N, and an N may think that the S is implying something that they aren't. Stuff like that. That's mainly what I meant by S vs N being easy to fix.

I'm sure he enjoys your insight to things if it's intuitive yet grounded.

You probably think that my comments are thought provoking because my Ni is pretty much equal with my Se in function strength; along with the shared interest in typology. I'm pretty much on the border of S/N and T/F. I used to think that I was an INFP, and there are still people here that think I'm one.

I don't have enough information. This may be an issue outside of typology- that he is just not talkative enough?

 

[BlackCat]

I think that one of the key things in play here is the enneagram, and the fact that Saslou and I are both SFs (she's ESFJ). Do you have any idea of what his enneagram instincts could be? This sounds suspiciously like sp/sx.

Sp first is basically being concerned with yourself (you care about others through the second instinct) and being concerned with resources/safety. Sx is basically being concerned with one to one bonds and intimacy. If I'm right, then social would be last. Social last people don't feel the need to impress others. It's not natural for them to constantly socialize. I'm a social last (but sexual first), and I don't really think of how I am appearing to a group of people or people in general. I am clueless as to how to appeal to people at large and gain attention; and I have no desire to (even though I need to). Also social lasts don't seem to talk as much in my experience, especially sp/sx types.

 

[highlander]

My marriage may have failed because of this issue, so I think, perhaps, I should give a couple of thoughts on the matter.

The S/N difference, I feel, is more of a problem for the N (especially an NF), because they are searching for a 'soulmate'--Someone they can connect with on a deeper level, and someone who matches them, heart and soul. An S will not be able to understand this need, and this connection will not happen. All types have a bit of abstract in them, so it may appear in a Sensor partner from time to time, but eventually the S will grow tired of reaching past the tangible, and the N will feel as though the S doesn't care. The S usually does not have an issue with the N relationship, because day-to-day life is satisfying for them. They will need nothing more.

Expecting an S to have the desire to connect on a theoretical level can drive an iNtuitive insane, and make the Sensor feel, well, attacked, I guess. I'm not sure if this would have helped or not, but if I had realized my partner was not interested in speaking in abstracts (and was also aware that was indeed what I was trying to do), it may have worked out. Even with that understanding, however, that much needed connection for the N would never materialize. Others on here have said that the need for abstract connection may be fulfilled through N type friends outside the relationship, so perhaps there is hope for an N-S pairing if the N doesn't expect to find that connection with their own partner.

psyche--It may appear to you that there is a communication breakdown in your relationship due to the intriguing thoughts from the Sensors here, but these Sensors are communicating something they, individually, have found to be real and relevant. If psychology theory is where you can connect, maybe you can see if your partner is interested. Just a thought.

The bolded item is the biggest issue. I think it may go for NTs as well, particularly dominant intuitives.

All this being said, MBTI is only one lens to look at things through.

 

[Saslou]

The S/N difference, I feel, is more of a problem for the N (especially an NF), because they are searching for a 'soulmate'--Someone they can connect with on a deeper level, and someone who matches them, heart and soul. An S will not be able to understand this need, and this connection will not happen. All types have a bit of abstract in them, so it may appear in a Sensor partner from time to time, but eventually the S will grow tired of reaching past the tangible, and the N will feel as though the S doesn't care. The S usually does not have an issue with the N relationship, because day-to-day life is satisfying for them. They will need nothing more.

Expecting an S to have the desire to connect on a theoretical level can drive an iNtuitive insane, and make the Sensor feel, well, attacked, I guess. I'm not sure if this would have helped or not, but if I had realized my partner was not interested in speaking in abstracts (and was also aware that was indeed what I was trying to do), it may have worked out. Even with that understanding, however, that much needed connection for the N would never materialize. Others on here have said that the need for abstract connection may be fulfilled through N type friends outside the relationship, so perhaps there is hope for an N-S pairing if the N doesn't expect to find that connection with their own partner.

I am going to be rather forthright here but have you not instantly placed a barrier in your way thus the relationship can do nothing but end (as it did).

I used to believe in soul mates but came to the conclusion that i won't be meeting all of the 6.2 billion people in the world so the chancing of me meeting the 'one' is rather slim indeed. I think we meet people at certain points in our lives as they have someone we need thus we grow.

One person can not give you everything you need, that's why you have friends and to search for a soul mate who is able to do this is just possibly too high of an expectation, for which you are always going to be left disappointed. You will never get 100% from someone, but 90% is pretty good.

I am not even aware when i am having abstract moments, because i don't place any value to it .. I am just thinking. If my partner wants more, he can go to his friends .. If i spend to much time thinking of the one thing i am unable to fully offer as opposed to the 100 different things i can, how silly would that seem and to end a relationship because of that .. It seems somewhat redundant and pointless .. There are many other great qualities there and they can be appreciated.

 

[ElusiveRain]

I am going to be rather forthright here but have you not instantly placed a barrier in your way thus the relationship can do nothing but end (as it did).

I used to believe in soul mates but came to the conclusion that i won't be meeting all of the 6.2 billion people in the world so the chancing of me meeting the 'one' is rather slim indeed. I think we meet people at certain points in our lives as they have someone we need thus we grow.

One person can not give you everything you need, that's why you have friends and to search for a soul mate who is able to do this is just possibly too high of an expectation, for which you are always going to be left disappointed. You will never get 100% from someone, but 90% is pretty good.

I realize that is just one way to look at it, and it is not the only reason my marriage didn't work. I tried it for 13 years with this man, and there was no connection. Sitting on the couch while I played all the S roles was his idea of a soulmate, mindmate, playmate, and helpmate. I know it seems limited, but I will never try it with an S again, unless someone can show me otherwise.

Toonia, you are right about a mate playing all those roles, and that relationships cannot exist merely on an abstract level. But when a mate can play none of those roles and never reaches an abstract level (past a few years), and then expects the other to take care of all of the S duties (as you pointed out so accurately), it cannot be maintained. I felt, for the last 3 years of that marriage, as if I was alone. And then, on top of it, any 'N' in my life (male or female) threatened him. As I said, I won't try this again with an S. Maybe I'll never try it again at all .

 

[FemMecha]

Toonia, you are right about a mate playing all those roles, and that relationships cannot exist merely on an abstract level. But when a mate can play none of those roles and never reaches an abstract level (past a few years), and then expects the other to take care of all of the S duties (as you pointed out so accurately), it cannot be maintained. I felt, for the last 3 years of that marriage, as if I was alone. And then, on top of it, any 'N' in my life (male or female) threatened him. As I said, I won't try this again with an S. Maybe I'll never try it again at all .

I ended up deleting my post because it didn't fit with the OP I realized. Your situation does sound especially difficult. I do think there is a rather wide range of people potentially labeled as Sensors, and so your case may have been particularly extreme in the lack of connection. People do use MBTI as a filtering process to avoid mistakes, but it is worth realizing that there are iNtuitives with whom the connection could also be lacking - possibly equally so. It is certainly important to have a connection that fits with you personally and sharing ideas, perspectives, and ideals is an important aspect of that.

 

[ElusiveRain]

I ended up deleting my post because it didn't fit with the OP I realized. Your situation does sound especially difficult. I do think there is a rather wide range of people potentially labeled as Sensors, and so your case may have been particularly extreme in the lack of connection. People do use MBTI as a filtering process to avoid mistakes, but it is worth realizing that there are iNtuitives with whom the connection could also be lacking - possibly equally so. It is certainly important to have a connection that fits with you personally and sharing ideas, perspectives, and ideals is an important aspect of that.

Thanks, Toonia. You are very perceptive and I admire your insight. No worries--I'm going to be extremely careful about my next one (if there is a next one), and this includes any 'N's. Sorry, psyche, to derail from your OP .

 

[psyche]

ElusiveRain -- I completely relate to a lot of what you say. I don't search for a soulmate any more, or complete connection with another. Those were ideals (that aren't even ideal, actually) that disappeared with my twenties. Today, I seek a partner with whom I can feel connected but not merged, challenged but not overstimulated. I so relate to the feeling of being together but alone. And surprisingly it seems to take very little for me to feel that connection with him -- if he opens up and shares about his internal experience, or shares a thought that teaches me or challenges me to think, I'm happy. I do feel like I'm catering to his Sensor world and our relationship isn't balanced that way.

BlackCat -- You're good! You hit the nail on the head with the E and you may well be right that the problem is about talking in general rather than simply a S/N dichotomy. Okay....yes, our E differences definitely come into play here. Are you sitting down? I'm sx/so 4w3. He's sp/sx 5w6.

He and I both know the E very well. This is another area where I feel (and again, he agrees -- it's come up several times in E workshops) that I've stretched into his world a lot more than he has into mine. I actually love being with an sp/sx (my first preference) and also with a 5. He is sensitive to some of my 4 issues (he makes sure to return my calls right away, etc.) but has not actually extended himself into my world as a 4 very much, though he says he knows he should.

Back to your comment about overall talking versus S/N, perhaps this is the case. He doesn't talk much (which I like; I prefer to be with Introverts) but the problem is that when he does talk, it's almost always about Sensing chit-chat. It doesn't take much for me to feel connected; for example, when he returns from therapy (which he's been in for a couple of years) and he tells me a little bit about what he's discussed, I'm quite happy. I don't need more than that every few days. But even though he has been to a gazillion E workshops with me, he doesn't actually discuss the E with me. He can tell me what Type he thinks someone is, or occasionally comment on the E (very rarely) but it ends there.

Of course, the S/N difference is an issue, but I'm not sure how much of the problem is related to this piece.

You don't seem like a Sensor to me, btw. I'm curious why you've typed yourself that way.....

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post. Very helpful.

 

[Charmed Justice]

I used to believe in soul mates but came to the conclusion that i won't be meeting all of the 6.2 billion people in the world so the chancing of me meeting the 'one' is rather slim indeed. I think we meet people at certain points in our lives as they have something we need thus we grow.

One person can not give you everything you need, that's why you have friends and to search for a soul mate who is able to do this is just possibly too high of an expectation, for which you are always going to be left disappointed. You will never get 100% from someone, but 90% is pretty good.

I loved this post. Just said the bolded a few days ago.

To answer the OP, I think it depends more on the value you place on the preferences in regards to other people. I highly value extroverts who are feelers and/or perceivers, it doesn't matter if they are sensors or intuitiors. With a few exceptions, I think people who are most similar in personality work best together overtime.

My husband is an ISTJ, and as far as communication, the problems we have mostly come down to him being an introvert+thinker, and me being an extrovert+feeler. The very things that brighten me up and allow me to thrive(intimacy and interactions with people), often wear him down and frustrate him. By the same token, I get tired of talking about things, which is more his focus. My ISFP ex and I actually got along very well, and S/N was never an issue for us. We both had an almost equal concern for our relationships with people.