Pretentious Fi

[rowingineden]

People tend to get annoyed with my observations because I notice things that they thought they had kept sufficiently hidden or that they're not prepared to deal with yet. Then sometime later they will come to me and tell me exactly what I have already told THEM... and act like it's a major revelation... I've just learned to keep quiet about many of the things I notice about people and let them find those things out in however much time it takes, since they won't listen to me, anyway, and they'll probably get all offended if I bring it up.

And yes, other types seem to get really upset with me often for not being... irrational/hostile enough, when they try to inflame me with anger or antagonize me in some way. Well, that's not how I do. Sorry to disappoint, but at the same time... I'm not particularly sorry that I usually treat people well and generally have a calm demeanor, regardless of how I am treated.

 

[Kenneth Almighty]

People tend to get annoyed with my observations because I notice things that they thought they had kept sufficiently hidden or that they're not prepared to deal with yet. Then sometime later they will come to me and tell me exactly what I have already told THEM... and act like it's a major revelation... I've just learned to keep quiet about many of the things I notice about people and let them find those things out in however much time it takes, since they won't listen to me, anyway, and they'll probably get all offended if I bring it up.

And yes, other types seem to get really upset with me often for not being... irrational/hostile enough, when they try to inflame me with anger or antagonize me in some way. Well, that's not how I do. Sorry to disappoint, but at the same time... I'm not particularly sorry that I usually treat people well and generally have a calm demeanor, regardless of how I am treated.

Overall, this bugs me. It may be Fi's nature, which can be a great boon, as when I'm feeling down they're always listening.

But then the best way for me to feel better is to get some playful shit stirred, not be analysed!

 

[rowingineden]

Overall, this bugs me. It may be Fi's nature, which can be a great boon, as when I'm feeling down they're always listening.

But then the best way for me to feel better is to get some playful shit stirred, not be analysed!

When other people ask me to listen to me but don't want me to provide any advice or insight whatsoever, I tell them to go write a book about it - because the paper can't talk back.

 

[Amargith]

Overall, this bugs me. It may be Fi's nature, which can be a great boon, as when I'm feeling down they're always listening.

But then the best way for me to feel better is to get some playful shit stirred, not be analysed!

Usually, if I notice that, I'll play about a bit, to relax you. After that, I'll check if you wanna talk

Feel free to indicate that you'd rather not talk but go do something fun..you'll find NFPs tend to be responsive to your requests

 

[InvisibleJim]

Overall, this bugs me. It may be Fi's nature, which can be a great boon, as when I'm feeling down they're always listening.

But then the best way for me to feel better is to get some playful shit stirred, not be analysed!

This depends on the Fi users nature. If they are patient and loving and don't feel the need to influence their environment (usually extroverted) they will allow you to go create trouble as it doesn't wind them up. If they are introverted (or introverting) and feel the need to control their environment for self protection or other reasons then you will find they turn into an angry brick wall that doesn't like you messing up their self imposed security via idealism.

 

[Kenneth Almighty]

Usually, if I notice that, I'll play about a bit, to relax you. After that, I'll check if you wanna talk

Feel free to indicate that you'd rather not talk but go do something fun..you'll find NFPs tend to be responsive to your requests

Now, are my requests limited in any way? ;p

 

[Amargith]

Now, are my requests limited in any way? ;p

That would depend on the particular NFP. You'll find most non-judgemental, and gently rebuffing if it's not their cup of tea, while inviting you to come back for other stuff

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

It seems like Fi people constantly think they know how other people are feeling but are wrong many times.

I agree with this but only for myself. I used to think this way a lot more often, but I've misinterpreted things so many times that I find myself absolutely clueless as to how I should approach the world. When I try to guess at how someone is feeling, I'm often only relating it back to a similar experience I've had, and again, I'm usually wrong about how that other person feels.

Since Fi is my dominant function, and it has a tendency to just consistently screw me over with unrealistic perceptions/ expectations/ wants/ needs, I find myself really unsure of how to make decisions in which I can feel comfortable or have faith.

I see the value in Fi when it's used more realistically, but it seems to me like oftentimes it's just completely out of control.

If Fi is "completely out of control" (and I agree for myself it's hard to keep under control at times), what is the best way to actually feel comfortable in any of the decisions or perceptions I have? This is, again, a serious question. What are good practices/tests to keep to make sure you're using Fi "realistically"?

 

[Hopelandic]

Fi can be as narrow minded as Ni supported by extraverted judging.

Fi can be extremely subjective (functions aren't skill sets) and I have found that those infps' with a slippery grasp on Ne -think- they are right, even when external factors point that they are actually wrong. And yet they -continue- to pursue their judgment without considering new information.

The most hypocritical people I have ever met or witnessed online have been fi-doms.

 

[Srho]

I constantly analyze people's emotions and motives, but usually just within my own head. I know this to be true of many of my close friends that aren't EJs.

 

[Thinkerninja]

I've seen that many people on other forums, basically all NFPs have commented that they 'know' what the emotion flow of the room is, how others are feeling, like an 'ability'. I'm highly sceptical of this. I'm an ENFP, but I honestly don't have this 'ability'. Sure you can analyse and overanalyse and interpret a situation subjectively, but jumping to conclusions about what another person feels just makes you .. annoying.

 

[Moiety]

^ I'm very wary of trusting my intuition of how other people feel and what their intentions are. It's natural to me, but I always make a conscious effort to ignore it, since I think it's unfair to other people. In the end one can't read minds.

 

[The Outsider]

I've seen that many people on other forums, basically all NFPs have commented that they 'know' what the emotion flow of the room is, how others are feeling, like an 'ability'. I'm highly sceptical of this. I'm an ENFP, but I honestly don't have this 'ability'. Sure you can analyse and overanalyse and interpret a situation subjectively, but jumping to conclusions about what another person feels just makes you .. annoying.

Perhaps they meant it in a subjective way? As in how the people in the room affect them, rather than claiming to objectively know what each person is feeling.
Though basic empathy is certainly to be expected, from any human, but it should not be taken too far.

 

[skylights]

basically all NFPs have commented that they 'know' what the emotion flow of the room is, how others are feeling, like an 'ability'. I'm highly sceptical of this.

the way i personally see this, is it's like a conglomeration of little things. the way people are holding themselves. their gazes. their behavior. the way they're positioned in respect to things in the room. the way they move and the way they speak. the reason i think Ne-Fi people claim this is that we see these inconsistencies via Fi - we can tell something is "off" from normal about each individual person - and then Ne takes all of those inconsistencies and looks for the pattern/big picture.

i used to have a nitpicky, egotistical, micromanaging, nosy boss (i liked her some, but she was a bit of a tornado to say the least), and when i walked into the office, i could often peg the mood of the room and the mood of my boss almost immediately. it wasn't premonition and it wasn't anything particularly magical, even though it took a while for me to understand how i was able to do that. but my boss herself even commented upon how well i could immediately pick up on a person's emotional state and meet them at that level, which i attribute mostly to Fi. Ne just helps apply and extend that to perceive an "atmosphere".

sometimes my perception is off, but it just helps me learn for next time. i'm usually accurate.

i don't think it's being pretentious to call yourself usually accurate when you usually are.

i do know this through confirmation. i used to have hour-long appointments with clients, so i'd almost inevitably hear about how they were feeling through discussion of their current issues and through my own questioning to make sure i was on the same page as them. occasionally i would get my initial "reading" of them wrong, but i was usually right.

i guess what i see as the important thing is that the whole purpose of doing this is to be more welcoming to people, and to be able to communicate with them in an effective way. it's not to pigeonhole anyone into a stereotype or to lord my almighty powers (ha ha) over them. the purpose isn't at all to be restricting, or judgmental, it's just a useful tool in deciding how to approach someone or go about things in general. and let's face it, it's not that ridiculously great of a skill. so i can tell when someone's feeling differently than usual. most people can do that, given they know someone well enough.

 

[Amargith]

I've seen that many people on other forums, basically all NFPs have commented that they 'know' what the emotion flow of the room is, how others are feeling, like an 'ability'. I'm highly sceptical of this. I'm an ENFP, but I honestly don't have this 'ability'. Sure you can analyse and overanalyse and interpret a situation subjectively, but jumping to conclusions about what another person feels just makes you .. annoying.

Jumping to conclusions equals a lack of thorough checking, and is annoying in any field. In math it can lead to fatal mistakes, in organizing stuff it can keep you from seeing the little things that change the picture, and the same is true for when you work with people.

OTOH, I spent 20+ years thinking I wasn't good at anything, because everyone kept telling me that it was ridiculous to think you could read people's emotional state, not to mention presumptious and arrogant. It *is* something I can do reasonably well, and I'm not about to appologize for it. When someoene talks to me about math or how something is built up logically and I cannot follow what they're saying, I'm considered stupid, even though they don't make sense to me. Yet when I do something they cannot fathom, even when I explain it to the best of my abilities, suddenly it doesn't exist and it's considered attention whoring. It doesn't even come to mind that they just might be dense when it comes to this.
That general double standard which exists just pisses me off. Just coz you don't 'feel' something, or don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't there. It can just as easily mean you just suck at reading it. Which is fine. Just don't diss it till you've tried it/explored it. Properly, I might add.

I know you're a fellow ENFP, but I sometimes feel that that general attitude towards those good at empathy and reading people is that they're charlatans and are therefore discredited as their talents aren't supposed to exist, and ya know what, I as an ENFP tried to please them and forget about that part of myself, only to find myself lying to myself. I'm not saying that you should develop these talents, if you aren't remotely interested in them. I'm just saying that just coz you're not pursuing them, doesn't mean that skillset doesn't exist.

 

[Cybin]

I think people who say it can do it, at least to some extent. I'm too distrustful of my gut instincts, and I know I'm not very good at reading people. I generally need people to talk to me to get a vibe. However, I can think of a few times I've walked into a room and the air was absolutely cold and thick because something that caused tension had happened. Every time, though, it was a setting where I was familiar with the people in it and their routines, so I'm sure I just quickly noticed something odd before I could think about it consciously. I don't doubt there are people who have honed this skill.

But I also think some people just think that they can do it, and insist they're right when told otherwise.

 

[Amargith]

True, as with any skill, there's ways to overestimate your abilities and then fall flat on your face, or to be lazy while executing it, which then gives inaccurate results, and that looks particularly bad when doing this, imo.

 

[skylights]

^ haha, yeah, good point. and it's another one of those Fi things that seems "invisible" when it goes right, you know? a lot of people don't usually point out when you're on the same wavelength as them - they mostly tend to notice just when you're not. and what we perceive doesn't necessarily have much of a connection to how we act about it. you could feel the atmosphere of a room as being somber and decide to sing lady gaga and crack lewd jokes just because you feel like it.

 

[niffer]

Honestly to my experience NFJs are probably better at empathizing/sympathizing than I am. A lot of the time I'm not sure how to react to people showing their Fe, except to attempt to consider the Ti aspect of their feelings and to mirror their emotions and keep myself open to them. I sense this same kind of interaction coming from other NFPs when I interact with them as well. However, my experience and certainty of other types is limited.

Although it may be the NFP's instinct to just BS their guesses of how you feel because they want you to feel better or to "talk you through it". If you find this to be an issue, I suggest just telling the offenders to stfu lol, if they ignore you when you try to correct them.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Although "jumping to conclusions" is an expression, rather than an activity, it is as dangerous as jumping off a cliff, jumping in front of a moving train, and jumping for joy. If you jump off a cliff, you have a very good chance of experiencing a painful landing unless there is something below you to cushion your fall, such as a body of water or an immense pile of tissue paper. If you jump in front of a moving train, you have a very good chance of experiencing a painful voyage unless you are wearing some sort of train-proof suit. And if you jump for joy, you have a very good chance of experiencing a painful bump on the head, unless you make sure you are standing someplace with very high ceilings, which joyous people rarely do. Clearly, the solution to anything involving jumping is either to make sure you are jumping to a safe place, or not to jump at all.