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Plus and Minus Elements

Cygnus

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Socionics - the16types.info - plus/minus by Victor Gulenko
the16types said:
ALPHA

-Fe = minimization or avoidance of negative emotions, prevention of quarrels, scandals, and other situations causing emotional instability, which is valued as more important than creation of positive emotional effect.

-Ti = global structural logic. Systematic analysis is the instrument that they use in understanding the world. They are primarily interested in the universal laws that govern its workings. To that end, all traditions, conventions and restrictions are discarded. Everything is subjected to analysis, redefinition, analogies. Their main goal that they are pursuing is the creation of a comprehensive, breathtaking, singular picture of the world. The idea of unity, reasonableness and the fairness in all things permeates their vision completely.

+Si = positive feelings of comfort. They cannot effectively realize their potential if their lifestyle is full of hardships. Style of activity is characterized by relaxation, freedom, by conveniences. Relations with the external environment, where their activities unfold, must be friendly and pleasant. Their groups are always comfortable, relaxed as if at home, and never rough or eccentric.

+Ne = promising ideas. In this quadra, which can be attributed the element of air, there are frequent talks about the future, the unexplored and unknown possibilities. They may seem to be incorrigible dreamers. And this is so: they look out further than anyone, beyond the horizon, they put forward "crazy" theories and discuss them with pleasure. Some of these theories, however, are destined to have long lives, so long that they will outlast their creators.


BETA

+Fe = maximization of positive emotions. Even small doses are enjoyed. Against the backdrop of the dramatic, turbulent emotions that always accompany this quadra, every small occurrence deserving a positive response is seen as an occasion for joy and uplifts their spirits.

+Ti = organizational logic. They have a developed sense of duty, citizenship, loyalty to the elected project. It is therefore the most disciplined and organized quadra that knows how to quickly rally its forces in the event of imminent danger or emergency situations.

-Se = minimization of weaknesses, i.e. steadfastness in the struggle against deprivation and resistance against the enemy. In this quadra, the force of will is an indispensable condition for effective operation. Persistence, determination, endurance and firmness are always the supreme authority.

-Ni = desire to bypass danger. They aim t avoid previously committed mistakes. In their groups, experience, skill, know-how, sophistication are highly valued. They feel confident in extreme situations.


GAMMA

-Fi = minimization of negative relationships. This element is critical of evil. They desire to get away from bad people and poor relationships, and to protect themselves from enemies and adversaries. They want to minimize negative experiences, because as we know from psychoanalysis, all extruded problems are liable to generate an emotional reaction one way or another, with a physical cost for the purification of the subconscious.

-Te = business logic of risk and entrepreneurship. For them it is characteristic to reject that which is useless, insignificant, mundane. This aspect is valued as more important than accumulation and rational consumption. Gammas successfully operate in environments of economic scarcity, where in order to survive it is necessary to use something that may appear useless at first glace, but which is present in abundance.

+Se = durability and resistance. This quadra is well capable of defending itself and its position. For them power is not easy to acquire, as to do this they must resist the volitional Beta quadra. However, once it is seized, they can hold on to it despite all attempts at restoration. Protectiveness, ability to defend themselves against all force, ability to keep that which was acquired - these are the principles that they respect. This quadra can be called the quadra of criticism and reforms. In contrast to the 'fire' Beta quadra, which is oriented primarily politically, this quadra is oriented more socially.

+Ni = constraining their hot temper, these sociotypes prefer to advance gradually into the future, though they may sharply reject obsolete ideas, criticizing past mistakes. Advancing step by step, they generally believe in the linearity of development, i.e. according to their deep convictions, it is only necessary to remove obstacles, remnants of the past, and immediately this will open endless possibilities for growth. This quadra is not afraid of chaos and upheavals: they know how to conduct their work under conditions of change, risk and confusion.


DELTA

+Fi = positive, warm relationships. Psychological factors play a vital role for them. Without recognition of ethical values such as individuality and the uniqueness of others, religion and spirituality, non-interference in others lives, concrete humanism, etc., the stability they strongly desire is hardly possible.

+Te = logic of use and rational management of resources. This is the most cost-conscious quadra that consumes rationally and prefers high-quality long-lasting products. Risk, rushed jobs, economic chaos and manipulation are not characteristic of this quadra. The society of quality consumption should be stable.

-Si = minmization of discomfort. They value good working conditions and are reluctant to change their routines. This element excludes harmful influences from external environment. This quadra cannot work during emergencies. They highly value convenience, comfort at their workplace, and good coordination at work.

-Ne = the unusual, alternative and bizarre. Despite its groundedness, this quadra respects unusual and talented people who offer creative alternative possibilities. The spread of new information is not impeded, no matter how avant-garde it might be. In Delta groups, there occur periodic flashes of sensationalism and spikes of interest centered around original people who put forward alternative ideas of development.




Socionics - the16types.info - Signs of Functions (+/-)
+ Fe - positive emotions, joy, merriment, emotional elation, excitement, a smile, laughter, enthusiasm, optimism, good mood, the experience of happiness;
− Fe - negative emotions, grief, sorrow, sadness, emotional recession, depression, crying, tears, frustration, pessimism, poor mood, the experience of unhappiness;

+ Fi - good relations, love, friendship, affection, attraction, warmth in relations, sociability, close psychological distance, goodness, compassion;
− Fi - poor relations, hatred, animosity, antipathy, repulsion, indifference in relations, alienation, unsociability, remote psychological distance, wickedness, mercilessness;

+ Te - useful, beneficial, economical, technology, facts, acquisition, stockpiling, purchases, savings, bringing order, practicality;
− Te - useless, unprofitable, wasteful, utilization, deterioration, exhaustion, costs, expenses, risk-taking, experimentation, sales, trade, action in atmosphere of chaos, ingenuity;

+ Ti - specificity, itemization, detailed study, thoroughness, accuracy, strictness, place in hierarchy, regulations, instructions, choosing the best option, precision of function, logic of organization, indicators, reporting;
− Ti - abstractness, generality, universality, system, classification, typology, general regularities, objectivity, truth, justice, comprehensive review, analysis, dissection, the logic of science, criteria;

+ Ne - prospects, opportunities, positive potential, core meaning, essence, principle, new ideas, advancing hypotheses, theory, insight, interest, originality, unusual, fantastical, hopefulness;
− Ne - hopelessness, alternatives, negative potential, meaninglessness, absurdity, paradox, the forgotten and the old, insight, mediocrity, commonness, repressed possibilities, reality, disbelief, sensation[hit];

+ Ni - future, change in the situation over time, prediction, premonition, gradual development, evolution, gradual ascent, the dynamics of change, the flow of time, imagination, harmonious description, subtle step-by-step changes, convergence, confluence;
− Ni - past, accounting for errors, avoidance of danger, anxiety, a worrying premonition, a warning, the ripening of a crisis, revolution, a leap in time, ability to hedge against troubles, sudden shifts, discordant description, the moment of decisive action, divergence, deviation;

+ Se - retention of power, insubordination, defense, cover, countermove, counterattack, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;
− Se - capture of power, subjugation, offensive attack, initiative, perseverance, determination, demands, strong-willed pressure from top downwards, the assertion of own interests at the expense of others, overthrowing, appropriating, weakness, passivity;

+ Si - pleasant sensations, comfort, convenience, harmony, beauty, attraction, leisure, health, relaxation, well-being, pleasure, enjoyment, sensitivity;
− Si - unpleasant thrill sensations, discomfort, inconvenience, disharmony, ugliness, unattractiveness, work, fatigue, stress, illness, suffering, pain [1].
 

Retmeishka

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I am totally all about the plus and minus signs. I will have to come back to this later. I just wanted to say, 'hey, this is awesome!'
 

Retmeishka

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The project that I am working on, in the long run (as soon as I get settled again - I'm in the middle of a disaster and can't really focus on anything while moving out of my apartment) is to describe all 16 of these information elements in extremely thorough detail. Not just a couple sentences that sum it up, but, like, a whole book chapter for each one, with lots of examples.

The plus and minus signs mean several different things, all of which modify the information element.

Plus:
positive, good, desirable
being involved in something, immersed in the process of what you are doing
local range, short range, nearby
concrete and specific
present and future oriented (I'm not sure about this one though, it might be a bit complicated)
'process' in the Reinin dichotomies - you care about the details of how the process is done
belonging to yourself or to those close to you, people you see and know
evolving (growing, creating new details)

Minus:
negative, bad, undesirable
in general, always, usually (like when pop psychologists say, 'You're making all these negative generalizations like "I always fail."')
disconnected, disassociated, not involved in what you are doing
global range, distant, everywhere, everyone
belonging to others, having to do with others or everyone in general
anonymous groups, anonymous abstractions
past oriented, or all the time, always, in general
involving (all-inclusive, losing details, making generalizations)
'result' in the Reinin dichotomies - you don't really care how you get there, you just want to skip to the end

I want to describe the grammar used for these functions when people talk about them, too. For all practical purposes, it's a sixteen chapter book. Each 'chapter' would describe each information element as it manifests in all the function positions, too.

This is just a manic, grandiose project at the moment - I've got my own disasters to worry about, so it's all postponed. I just wish I could pay somebody else to do it.
 

sulfit

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There is an alternative +/- sign model where duals have opposite element signs by the logic that opposite poles attract - same poles repel.

While Ti of INTj has minus sign (-Ti), his dual ESFj is attributed +Ti.

Socionics - the16types.info - Signs of Functions (+/-)

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nVSFwu2.png
 

existence

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The project that I am working on, in the long run (as soon as I get settled again - I'm in the middle of a disaster and can't really focus on anything while moving out of my apartment) is to describe all 16 of these information elements in extremely thorough detail. Not just a couple sentences that sum it up, but, like, a whole book chapter for each one, with lots of examples.

Any luck with that project?

To OP: I'm totally +Ti.
 

Kheledon

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Great thread. I am such a beta (as described in the OP), and the +/- description of the EIE's functions is spot-on as well. Cool.

:thumbup:
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think I am alpha:

- Ti and +Ne

But I also jive with gamma:

+Ni


What does that mean?
 

Kheledon

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I think I am alpha:

- Ti and +Ne

But I also jive with gamma:

+Ni


What does that mean?

Something's up, for sure. If you're an EIE, you're Beta. If you're INFJ in M/B typology, you may be either INFj-EII, Delta, or INFp-IEI, Beta. Either way, your self-typing indicates that you are neither alpha nor gamma. I will say that EIE "leans" toward Alpha, in my experience. Generally speaking, my relationships with Alphas are better than my relationships with Gammas.

For what that's worth ... :shrug:
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Something's up, for sure. If you're an EIE, you're Beta. If you're INFJ in M/B typology, you may be either INFj-EII, Delta, or INFp-IEI, Beta. Either way, your self-typing indicates that you are neither alpha nor gamma. I will say that EIE "leans" toward Alpha, in my experience. Generally speaking, my relationships with Alphas are better than my relationships with Gammas.

For what that's worth ... :shrug:

Well, I test as an INTP.

Would that fit better?
 

Kheledon

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Well, I test as an INTP.

Would that fit better?

Absolutely! INTP in M/B equals either INTp-ILI, Gamma, or INTj-LII, Alpha. Those both fit. I'd guess Gamma, however, for if your program is +Ni then -Ne is your ignoring function--you're great at it, and it works in tandem (unconsciously) with your program function, but you hardly ever recognize it (neither in yourself or others).

You may want to check this out and see if it feels right: Socionics - the16types.info - INTp The Critic Profile by Gulenko

Edited to add: Gulenko says the ILI is "predisposed to have a pessimistic perception of life." I note your self-description (born with a broken heart). Sounds pessimistic to me.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Absolutely! INTP in M/B equals either INTp-ILI, Gamma, or INTj-LII, Alpha. Those both fit. I'd guess Gamma, however, for if your program is +Ni then -Ne is your ignoring function--you're great at it, and it works in tandem (unconsciously) with your program function, but you hardly ever recognize it (neither in yourself or others).

You may want to check this out and see if it feels right: Socionics - the16types.info - INTp The Critic Profile by Gulenko

Edited to add: Gulenko says the ILI is "predisposed to have a pessimistic perception of life." I note your self-description (born with a broken heart). Sounds pessimistic to me.

:smile: super coolz.

I don't think that description explains me as good as the INTP mbti description, but what is interesting is that these socionics elements and types seem to point me once again to INTP. My dear friend says I am an INFJ, and I can see it, but for the life of me, everything objective points to me being intp. :shrug:
 

Kheledon

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:smile: super coolz.

I don't think that description explains me as good as the INTP mbti description, but what is interesting is that these socionics elements and types seem to point me once again to INTP. My dear friend says I am an INFJ, and I can see it, but for the life of me, everything objective points to me being intp. :shrug:

Forgive me if I go too far, here, but I'd like to parse what I see in this brief response. First, you open with an emoji (one that highlights gender but expresses feeling). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but here's what I see. The gender bias that inclines men to type as T while women are inclined to type as F is always a concern, but you open with feeling in your reply (Fe) and an internal judgment/evaluation (Fi), as in "super coolz." That seems quite F to me, but it's also a bit hyperbolic and somewhat definitive, i.e. black/white thinking (not terribly sophisticated). A more-sophisticated F would appear more nuanced with some degree of hesitation or some shade of grey. Your opening line, then, seems more probable for an INTp (as INTp has Fe as its PoLR which, in my iconoclastic theoretical frame, is actually a juvenile function that people often like to indulge), and INTp has Fi in its sixth (suggestive-hidden agenda) function position (meaning it's an unconscious function but one with which the INTp actively seeks assistance and guidance). Were you INFj, you would lead with a highly sophisticated Fi whereas Fe would be your ignoring function (powerful, unconscious, works in tandem with the INFj's program function, Fi, but is seldom, if ever, verbalized or expressed). I see that too, but it's a question of sophistication. I see a fairly unsophisticated opening sentence, followed by a more-sophisticated second paragraph, so let's consider what you say there.

Your second paragraph is hesitant, inquisitive, and definitely gives me the sense that there's a problem that you're trying to solve, i.e. T (which is all about problem-solution, problem-solution, and more problem-solution). Your T seems quite sophisticated to me, so I'd first look for a type that has some T in its ego (first two functions--program and creative). INTp has Te as its creative function (in its ego). INFp has Te as its PoLR (seems unlikely for you). That said, what you're really wanting to do in this second paragraph is Ti. Whereas Te is explosive and extraverted (looking outside oneself for millions of possible solutions to problems or answers to questions), Ti is implosive and introverted (looking inside oneself for the purpose of eliminating or paring down available answers/solutions--i.e. after seeing all the possible answers/solutions to a given problem, Ti is looking for the "most likely" answer or solution by saying, "no, not that one," and then "no, not that one," and then "no, not that one," until, finally, Ti goes, "Eureka! That's it! That's the most likely answer/solution.") That's very sophisticated, so I'm really inclined to look for Ti in either your program function position (what you naturally do best) or in your 3rd (role) position. If you're certain that you are an introvert, and if you are working out of your ego (i.e. relatively at peace and being yourself), then I'd expect to see sophisticated Ti in your 1st position--INTj, Alpha or ISTj, Beta, my dual. If you're fairly certain you're an N, and if you're working out of your ego, then INTj, Alpha, would be my best guess. On the other hand, if you're stressed or in distress (because your ego is failing to get you what you want out of life), I'd look for Ti in your 3rd (role) position--ISFj, Gamma, or INFj, Delta. Here, again, if you're sure you're an N, INFj, Delta, would be my best guess. In each of these scenarios, however, you must be j (in Socionics), but MBTI introverts can convert into either j or p in Socionics depending solely on whether a rational or irrational function is dominant. The fact that you verbalize a Ti desire in your second paragraph leads me to think that, while you may have typed as a P in the MBTI system, you almost certainly convert to a j in Socionics. So, it's Delta if you're an F. It's Alpha if you're a T.

So, which of these seems to fit you best?

Socionics - the16types.info - Alpha Quadra: The Complex of Closed Mouth by Stratiyevskaya
Socionics - the16types.info - Delta Quadra The Complex of Clipped Wings by Stratiyevskaya

Or, you may consider mood and communication style:

INTj Mood - Detached critical analysis; clear and independent thought and worldviews; appearance of self-control

INTj Communication Style - Cold-blooded

INFj Mood - Gentle but with firm principles; demonstrate positive attitude; willingness to share your world

INFj Communication Style - Sincere

Socionics - the16types.info - The Socion: Overview of the 16 Sociotypes

Your signature and your self-description ("born with a broken heart") show willingness to share your world, your first sentence (above) shows positive attitude and is very gentle, and your communication style is more sincere than cold-blooded. Thus, I say INFj, Delta, EII (only one letter off from the EIE you have self-described as under your avatar, but a whole world different from me, an EIE). See if this fits better:

Socionics - the16types.info - INFj The Humanist Profile by Gulenko

Thanks for indulging me here. My desire to "help" gets the better of me on a regular basis. :blush:
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Forgive me if I go too far, here, but I'd like to parse what I see in this brief response. First, you open with an emoji (one that highlights gender but expresses feeling). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but here's what I see. The gender bias that inclines men to type as T while women are inclined to type as F is always a concern, but you open with feeling in your reply (Fe) and an internal judgment/evaluation (Fi), as in "super coolz." That seems quite F to me, but it's also a bit hyperbolic and somewhat definitive, i.e. black/white thinking (not terribly sophisticated). A more-sophisticated F would appear more nuanced with some degree of hesitation or some shade of grey. Your opening line, then, seems more probable for an INTp (as INTp has Fe as its PoLR which, in my iconoclastic theoretical frame, is actually a juvenile function that people often like to indulge), and INTp has Fi in its sixth (suggestive-hidden agenda) function position (meaning it's an unconscious function but one with which the INTp actively seeks assistance and guidance). Were you INFj, you would lead with a highly sophisticated Fi whereas Fe would be your ignoring function (powerful, unconscious, works in tandem with the INFj's program function, Fi, but is seldom, if ever, verbalized or expressed). I see that too, but it's a question of sophistication. I see a fairly unsophisticated opening sentence, followed by a more-sophisticated second paragraph, so let's consider what you say there.

Your second paragraph is hesitant, inquisitive, and definitely gives me the sense that there's a problem that you're trying to solve, i.e. T (which is all about problem-solution, problem-solution, and more problem-solution). Your T seems quite sophisticated to me, so I'd first look for a type that has some T in its ego (first two functions--program and creative). INTp has Te as its creative function (in its ego). INFp has Te as its PoLR (seems unlikely for you). That said, what you're really wanting to do in this second paragraph is Ti. Whereas Te is explosive and extraverted (looking outside oneself for millions of possible solutions to problems or answers to questions), Ti is implosive and introverted (looking inside oneself for the purpose of eliminating or paring down available answers/solutions--i.e. after seeing all the possible answers/solutions to a given problem, Ti is looking for the "most likely" answer or solution by saying, "no, not that one," and then "no, not that one," and then "no, not that one," until, finally, Ti goes, "Eureka! That's it! That's the most likely answer/solution.") That's very sophisticated, so I'm really inclined to look for Ti in either your program function position (what you naturally do best) or in your 3rd (role) position. If you're certain that you are an introvert, and if you are working out of your ego (i.e. relatively at peace and being yourself), then I'd expect to see sophisticated Ti in your 1st position--INTj, Alpha or ISTj, Beta, my dual. If you're fairly certain you're an N, and if you're working out of your ego, then INTj, Alpha, would be my best guess. On the other hand, if you're stressed or in distress (because your ego is failing to get you what you want out of life), I'd look for Ti in your 3rd (role) position--ISFj, Gamma, or INFj, Delta. Here, again, if you're sure you're an N, INFj, Delta, would be my best guess. In each of these scenarios, however, you must be j (in Socionics), but MBTI introverts can convert into either j or p in Socionics depending solely on whether a rational or irrational function is dominant. The fact that you verbalize a Ti desire in your second paragraph leads me to think that, while you may have typed as a P in the MBTI system, you almost certainly convert to a j in Socionics. So, it's Delta if you're an F. It's Alpha if you're a T.

So, which of these seems to fit you best?

Socionics - the16types.info - Alpha Quadra: The Complex of Closed Mouth by Stratiyevskaya
Socionics - the16types.info - Delta Quadra The Complex of Clipped Wings by Stratiyevskaya

Or, you may consider mood and communication style:

INTj Mood - Detached critical analysis; clear and independent thought and worldviews; appearance of self-control

INTj Communication Style - Cold-blooded

INFj Mood - Gentle but with firm principles; demonstrate positive attitude; willingness to share your world

INFj Communication Style - Sincere

Socionics - the16types.info - The Socion: Overview of the 16 Sociotypes

Your signature and your self-description ("born with a broken heart") show willingness to share your world, your first sentence (above) shows positive attitude and is very gentle, and your communication style is more sincere than cold-blooded. Thus, I say INFj, Delta, EII (only one letter off from the EIE you have self-described as under your avatar, but a whole world different from me, an EIE). See if this fits better:

Socionics - the16types.info - INFj The Humanist Profile by Gulenko

Thanks for indulging me here. My desire to "help" gets the better of me on a regular basis. :blush:

Ahh, very Interesting!!!! Thank you for taking the time to do that. I am so appreciative.

I read them and I do identify more with delta than alpha currently.

But I don't identify as the INFj eii . But I do identify with the ENFj EIE. Can that be delta?

Does that mean I am an extravert at heart? I am starting to suspect by nature I was dominate Fe and it got tuned inward due to my dysfunctional early childhood....

I identify strongly with these:

Socionics - the16types.info - ENFj description by Filatova

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/60-Hamlet-Female-portrait-ENFj-by-Beskova


this might also explain why I am not thriving right now. I have been without a primary relationship for almost 6 years. :( Can an enfj ever thrive without that?
 

Kheledon

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Ahh, very Interesting!!!! Thank you for taking the time to do that. I am so appreciative.

I read them and I do identify more with delta than alpha currently.

But I don't identify as the INFj eii . But I do identify with the ENFj EIE. Can that be delta?

Does that mean I am an extravert at heart? I am starting to suspect by nature I was dominate Fe and it got tuned inward due to my dysfunctional early childhood....

I identify strongly with these:

Socionics - the16types.info - ENFj description by Filatova

Socionics - the16types.info - Hamlet, Female portrait, ENFj by Beskova

No. EIE is definitely Beta. You list Ni as a strength, and EIE's ego is FeNi. You may simply be EIE-Ni (ENFj). I mis-typed as an introvert for a long time. It happens.

If that's the case for you, then welcome to the martyr club! :hi:

Socionics - the16types.info -

"Ignorance may be bliss, but I abhor ignorance, so bliss eludes me." - [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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No. EIE is definitely Beta. You list Ni as a strength, and EIE's ego is FeNi. You may simply be EIE-Ni (ENFj). I mis-typed as an introvert for a long time. It happens.

If that's the case for you, then welcome to the martyr club! :hi:

Socionics - the16types.info -

"Ignorance may be bliss, but I abhor ignorance, so bliss eludes me." - [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]

Yes, that is me. Thank you.


I knew that guffawing cannot be introverted. (I guffaw so loud when I watch something funny, and I cackle but that is a texas thang :) ) And all my closest friends have always been shocked when I tell them I am an infj because they do not see me as introverted. One of my closest friends said I reminded her most of a woman she knew (who I know is a classic enfj).

I am not manipulative though. I learned in childhood that I could manipulate my isfp sister but that it never felt good when I did, so I learned to temper that side of myself.



I am indebted.


But God said I am an INFJ. So. Not sure what to do here. I identify so strongly as this enfj thing, but I also identify as INTP (in mbti). I guess I will leave my description under my avvy as-is for now.
 

Kheledon

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Yes, that is me. Thank you.

You are quite welcome, though I say that with a tinge of sadness and regret. The life of an EIE is seldom what one would call "happy."

but for all intents and purposes, I function mostly as an introvert still. So i will leave my description as it is for now.

I've mentioned this to others, but you may not have seen it. Gulenko actually predicts that a powerful Fe dom may even choose the life of a recluse just to avoid being hurt by the world. An EIE may choose to live an introverted life due to its extremely thin emotional boundaries. If interacting with others in the world regularly causes you emotional pain, your only option becomes to limit your exposure to the world.

He cannot find peace and serenity himself; overflows of negative emotions often lead to mental breakdowns.

...

EIE often feels uneasy about any physical ailments and suffering. Has difficulty getting rid of bad habits. In sexual matters, often falls to extremes: from indifference to perversion. Pays much attention to his own appearance, especially surface aesthetics that can bring him much joy or disappointment. In nutrition, he is capriciously selective and may combine products of opposing tastes. Can be quite unpretentious with food, only care that it is provided for regularly. Estimates attitudes of others by how much they are willing to do for him and how tolerant they are of his strange tastes and habits. Does not feel well in confined spaces. May choose the life of a recluse.

Socionics - the16types.info - ENFj The Mentor profile by Gulenko

Charming, no? I should also add that I have noticed your use of the "shrug" emoji. I use it a lot too. I think it's because we suck at Ti. We don't trust our own internal logic, i.e. problem-solving capacity. LOL.

Better to laugh than to cry ... :hug:
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You are quite welcome, though I say that with a tinge of sadness and regret. The life of an EIE is seldom what one would call "happy."



I've mentioned this to others, but you may not have seen it. Gulenko actually predicts that a powerful Fe dom may even choose the life of a recluse just to avoid being hurt by the world. An EIE may choose to live an introverted life due to its extremely thin emotional boundaries. If interacting with others in the world regularly causes you emotional pain, your only option becomes to limit your exposure to the world.



Charming, no? I should also add that I have noticed your use of the "shrug" emoji. I use it a lot too. I think it's because we suck at Ti. We don't trust our own internal logic, i.e. problem-solving capacity. LOL.

Better to laugh than to cry ... :hug:

Actually, Ti is awesome for me. Which is why I tested INTP on my official test. :shrug:

But I agree with you about the reclusive thing. The world hurts me. That is also a characteristic of borderline though. I figured out my borderline persona was likely an enfj, so, yeah.... that fits.

It is possible I manifest in different personas in my life. Stranger things have happened, no?


Actually, just in from your link I believe:

INFj - Because of the influence of MBTI, some new to socionics theory may ignorantly think that the correct way to switch between introverted and extroverted types is to simply switch an E to an I or an I to an E. This is not the correct way to switch back and forth between the two in socionics. If you are an INFj in MBTI with an emphasis on expressing Fe and Ni, your actual socionics type is either an ENFj if you choose to stay a judging type or INFp if you find that you might want to consider being a socionics perceiving type. On the other hand, if the above ENFj description does not relate to you and you functionally express Fi and Ne, INFj is still an option, though be warned that socionics does not totally follow the same logic as MBTI does when determining J and P nor do the same stereotypical rules apply when attempting to determine introversion and extroversion. If you are familiar with MBTI, the possibility of having to type yourself totally different than MBTI should be a definite expectation.
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It is possible I manifest in different personas in my life. Stranger things have happened, no?

BIG SMILE.

ENFj regularly reincarnates. We change into almost-completely different people throughout the course of our lives. ENFj is fundamentally unstable, and that can be a good thing.

Continually reinvents and reincarnates himself in some style.

...

Over time, his worldviews may change to something diametrically opposite of what he has previously conceived.

Socionics - the16types.info - ENFj The Mentor profile by Gulenko

Borderline, perhaps, but ENFj? I say, almost certainly based upon what you've described to me so far. :)
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
BIG SMILE.

ENFj regularly reincarnates. We change into almost-completely different people throughout the course of our lives. ENFj is fundamentally unstable, and that can be a good thing.



Borderline, perhaps, but ENFj? I say, almost certainly based upon what you've described to me so far. :)

Do you think ENFjs are more able to dissociate than other types? Or would you not take it that far?

Also, does being an enneagram 7 sx make more sense then?
 
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