[NT] NT's and Reading People

[Paris34]

So I'm curious . . . I know I need to work on my attention to the emotional environment around myself, and try to be more considerate at times, yet I often feel like I can read people like a book. Do any other INTP's or NT's experience this? (sometimes its almost like a 'normal' person version of Sherlock...)


e.g. Say I pass a person on the street or in a store, if I actually take a second to analyze them I can size them up in less than a minute. Get a general idea of their personality, habits, and maybe even guess what some of their issues are. (I've actually accurately guessed [more like deduced] things a lot of my friends struggle with)... that is if I put in the effort...

(Also relationship wise, I can seemingly judge from a person's picture possible ways our theoretical relationship could play out. . . eh is this just me or do other NT's do this too?)

 

[INTP]

Yes. But often its more like that the person is saying the things with their expressions/actions rather than me having to analyse them too much. I try to assume to much tho, because more you try to assume, higher the chances are that you fail on your analysis. Also i dont try to guess things that the person isnt showing me, but i might make some hypothesis about much and then see if there are other things coming up later supporting the hypothesis(and i try to keep the hypothesis on myself rather than share them, even if there is already much evidence for them, its funny how clueless people around me are about how much i really know about them, sometimes i understand them better than they themselves do because i can see their complexes and true motivations which they are blind to cuz ego shit). Neither do i think that its a good idea to assume that the hypothesis is 100% correct at any point, but i treat it more as a theory that has its certainty raised or lowered based on stuff supporting it, and if the theory has enough support, i might act based on it.

But i wasnt always like this, its something i learned after developing more Fe and studying humans.

 

[laterlazer]

Not in the same way you do, like I can't do that with strangers I haven't spoken to. But with people I meet, in the first couple minutes I have them summed up, and I'm really good at knowing who I'm going to get along with and who I'm not pretty instantly. But doesn't mean I don't leave room for corrections on my judgement.

And to second INTP I usually keep my thoughts to myself, I've also noticed that I usually dislike certain people for really small seemingly rubbish reasons that if I told someone they'd think I was being ridiculous, but to me they're major indicators, but then after a while people start seeing that person's true character and everyone joins me on the hate train.

But yeah I love analysing people, I get a weird pleasure from figuring people out. But there's always going to be stuff that you don't know and you won't know till you get to know a person better.

 

[Obsidius]

So I'm curious . . . I know I need to work on my attention to the emotional environment around myself, and try to be more considerate at times, yet I often feel like I can read people like a book. Do any other INTP's or NT's experience this? (sometimes its almost like a 'normal' person version of Sherlock...)


e.g. Say I pass a person on the street or in a store, if I actually take a second to analyze them I can size them up in less than a minute. Get a general idea of their personality, habits, and maybe even guess what some of their issues are. (I've actually accurately guessed [more like deduced] things a lot of my friends struggle with)... that is if I put in the effort...

(Also relationship wise, I can seemingly judge from a person's picture possible ways our theoretical relationship could play out. . . eh is this just me or do other NT's do this too?)

I know the intentions of people almost immediately. I think the easiest way is by looking at way their eyes behave when making certain comments, same with general body language obviously. It's kind of bad, but I tend to know what someone's deepest insecurities are after a minute of talking to them... I think NT's can read people pretty well on average actually, interesting thought

 

[Paris34]

I know the intentions of people almost immediately. I think the easiest way is by looking at way their eyes behave when making certain comments, same with general body language obviously. It's kind of bad, but I tend to know what someone's deepest insecurities are after a minute of talking to them... I think NT's can read people pretty well on average actually, interesting thought

Yeah, I try to be conscious of avoiding stereotypes and remember that it take time to know someone, but things like: small gestures, glances, changes in expressions, mentions of work or habits, general in congruencies of body language ect... all can be very revealing... even profile pictures on social media can be very telling . . .Or maybe I've just been watching too much Sherlock... lol

And the NT's reading people easily perhaps has to do with the more objective nature in our cognitive processes and default to look for patterns and logic/ ask why/ or what/ or how in most areas of our lives. I even do this towards my own behavior and analyze myself in this fashion.

 

[Obsidius]

Yeah, I try to be conscious of avoiding stereotypes and remember that it take time to know someone, but things like: small gestures, glances, changes in expressions, mentions of work or habits, general in congruencies of body language ect... all can be very revealing... even profile pictures on social media can be very telling . . .Or maybe I've just been watching too much Sherlock... lol

And the NT's reading people easily perhaps has to do with the more objective nature in our cognitive processes and default to look for patterns and logic/ ask why/ or what/ or how in most areas of our lives. I even do this towards my own behavior and analyze myself in this fashion.

Yeah they definitely can be! Not sure about the profile picture though In definitely shows how they want to be seen though XD haha Sherlock ftw

Yeah I think you'd be right there, we tend to be very analytical when it comes to patterns. I think that is key actually. And it's always good to have a bit of self-analysis

 

[Paris34]

Yeah they definitely can be! Not sure about the profile picture though In definitely shows how they want to be seen though XD haha Sherlock ftw

Yeah I think you'd be right there, we tend to be very analytical when it comes to patterns. I think that is key actually. And it's always good to have a bit of self-analysis

Haha thanks

Yep. And I love my analytical nature, but the down fall, is that we can be slower on the emotional level, and this can get us into trouble sometimes... Oh life is a funny puzzle isn't it. Like chemistry experiment or a dance where things can be observed and watched and made sense of; yet when they play out if a step was missed or the 'chemistry' is off it can make for awkward situations.

I've learned (through observation) that its best to keep my deductions to myself, and of course be open the probability/possibility that I'm wrong.

 

[Obsidius]

Haha thanks

Yep. And I love my analytical nature, but the down fall, is that we can be slower on the emotional level, and this can get us into trouble sometimes... Oh life is a funny puzzle isn't it. Like chemistry experiment or a dance where things can be observed and watched and made sense of; yet when they play out if a step was missed or the 'chemistry' is off it can make for awkward situations.

I've learned (through observation) that its best to keep my deductions to myself, and of course be open the probability/possibility that I'm wrong.

Yeah I have troubles with being emotionally insensitive with my criticisms. But it sure is! Yeah I find emotional types are better at connecting dots in social situations, but they do it so irrationally most of the time...

That is a good lesson to learn! I know those two things intellectually speaking, but I slip up every once and a while... Makes relationships hard sometimes...

 

[Paris34]

Yeah I have troubles with being emotionally insensitive with my criticisms. But it sure is! Yeah I find emotional types are better at connecting dots in social situations, but they do it so irrationally most of the time...

That is a good lesson to learn! I know those two things intellectually speaking, but I slip up every once and a while... Makes relationships hard sometimes...

Yeah feeling dominant types can be awkward to be around, especially when they really get into a debate, I just sit there and silently judge the irrationality in their argument (unless its my best friend and I'll call him out when he's being an idiot.) But I probably look like judgmental Loki in those situations...

Its even worse if people trying to convince me using emotional manipulation. I just sit awkwardly and think *I know what you're doing, I don't like it, please stop now, it won't work.* I understand social graces and the importance of them, but sometimes I just don't know how to respond to the phrase "It be a nice thing to do." Like I know you're trying to guilt trip me, please stop now, before I begin to loose respect for you. . .

And yeah I slip up sometimes, too, for me its often jokes that I accidentally take too far rather than deductions though. Its never fun... but I find that genuinely apologizing right away helps make things easier.

 

[Obsidius]

Yeah feeling dominant types can be awkward to be around, especially when they really get into a debate, I just sit their and silently judge the irrationality in their argument (unless its my best friend and I'll call him out when he's being an idiot.) But I probably look like judgmental Loki in those situations...

Its even worse if people trying to convince me using emotional manipulation. I just sit awkwardly and think *I know what you're doing, I don't like it, please stop now, it won't work.* I understand social graces and the importance of them, but sometimes I just don't know how to respond to the phrase "It be a nice thing to do." Like I know you're trying to guilt trip me, please stop now, before I begin to loose respect for you. . .

And yeah I slip up sometimes, too, for me its often jokes that I accidentally take too far rather than deductions though. Its never fun... but I find that genuinely apologizing right away helps make things easier.

I do that too! Except I usually just subtly murmur something like "Appeal to patriotism" or something and wait for them to get frustrated XD

Yeah I find emotional appeals to be intellectually insulting... They seriously think they can persuade someone with something so weak and futile? I really don't understand...

Haha yeah I apologise nowadays too, can still cause things to be a tad awkward though XD

Good to talk to like minded people every once and a while

 

[Paris34]

I do that too! Except I usually just subtly murmur something like "Appeal to patriotism" or something and wait for them to get frustrated XD

Yeah I find emotional appeals to be intellectually insulting... They seriously think they can persuade someone with something so weak and futile? I really don't understand...

Haha yeah I apologise nowadays too, can still cause things to be a tad awkward though XD

Good to talk to like minded people every once and a while

Haha xD Oh my, my Fe would never let me do that... even if I might secretly want to say something along those lines...

Yep. Totally agree. And (now I'm deviating from NT form, tsk, tsk. I know) an insult to my integrity. I value in honesty in myself and others, and I see manipulation, even emotional, as dishonesty. And gradually it chips away at the respect that I have for that person. I also hate the implication of control by the person who believes they can alter how you feel and, as a result, think. (wow I never really thought it through this much . . .) I was shocked to learn that my INFJ friend is always aware of ways to emotionally manipulate people, but he says he would never use that information.

Yeah, I tend to over apologize and it gets awkward. Must be that inferior Fe thing (even just thinking about & typing this out is draining... emotions man, they're rough for an NT , or ST i suppose)

And right back at you

 

[Obsidius]

Haha xD Oh my, my Fe would never let me do that... even if I might secretly want to say something along those lines...

Yep. Totally agree. And (now I'm deviating from NT form, tsk, tsk. I know) an insult to my integrity. I value in honesty in myself and others, and I see manipulation, even emotional, as dishonesty. And gradually it chips away at the respect that I have for that person. I also hate the implication of control by the person who believes they can alter how you feel and, as a result, think. (wow I never really thought it through this much . . .) I was shocked to learn that my INFJ friend is always aware of ways to emotionally manipulate people, but he says he would never use that information.

Yeah, I tend to over apologize and it gets awkward. Must be that inferior Fe thing (even just thinking about & typing this out is draining... emotions man, they're rough for an NT , or ST i suppose)

And right back at you

I value honesty so much that I'm willing to completely disassociate myself from people that are dishonest, even close friends, I'm so harsh with it... But yes I can relate, the thought of a sociopath trying to manipulate other people or myself makes me grit my teeth and clench my fists... But yes, emotional manipulation is very easy, especially with people that see things in the realm of emotions instead of rationale, because they often can't spot logical problems with what you're saying... I used to manipulate people to suit my reality, I stopped a few years ago because I realised how reprehensible it was. And I love talking/thinking about this kind of thing! I love how confusing and contradictory this stuff can be, as much as it tugs at my strings XD

 

[Paris34]

I value honesty so much that I'm willing to completely disassociate myself from people that are dishonest, even close friends, I'm so harsh with it... But yes I can relate, the thought of a sociopath trying to manipulate other people or myself makes me grit my teeth and clench my fists... But yes, emotional manipulation is very easy, especially with people that see things in the realm of emotions instead of rationale, because they often can't spot logical problems with what you're saying... I used to manipulate people to suit my reality, I stopped a few years ago because I realized how reprehensible it was. And I love talking/thinking about this kind of thing! I love how confusing and contradictory this stuff can be, as much as it tugs at my strings XD

Dishonest people, I avoid so much that I don't even notice them, or I just call bullshit on them... And people who create drama, just no, please leave now. But the people who frustrate me the most are the people who claim to like certain people, yet talk about them constantly behind their back. To me this is the worst form of dishonesty; pretending to be great friends with someone, but not actually liking the person. To me talking behind someone's back is just another form of dishonesty; its breaking the unspoken bond of trust between friends. This is different than venting, at least for me. Venting implies pent up frustration, and emotional pain- that if I don't talk about it I'll risk my mental health, and I do my best to avoid any judgement when venting. Talking behind someone's back is gossip; unnecessary judgment; looking down on others you claim to like. People who do this make my skin crawl and I avoid them like Ebola (I was going to say plague, but though hey, why not modernize).

Emotional manipulation. I've done it few times. One time I was aware of what I was doing, but the other times, not so much. The time I was aware I was under an insane amount of stress, and needed to vent to my best friend, but there was this person who i can't stand trying to make small talk with us. So I turned on the charm and asked him to go check on something downstairs... yeah its not my proudest moment . . . over year later I still feel so guilty for doing that. If I have one regret, it would be that lie... that week in general, but that lie. Honesty is something I pride myself on, and I now always have that moment to carry with me. Even if I didn't like the lad, he deserved to be treated with respect. I could have just asked him politely to give my friend and I a minute.

The not so much times, I really missed my friend who was spending all his time with a girl, a week before I left to go abroad... so I said things like "Yeah have fun with her, but don't forget to say good bye to me." Hoping he'd catch on that I missed him... I apologized a week later for acting so jealous and we had a nice heart to heart.


As I've dealt with things over the past year, not just LGBT+ things, but other stuff too, I've come to realize the power of vulnerability (like Brené Brown's Ted Talk). That genuinely apologizing to people, if they are mature enough to accept it, can strengthen a friendship and make it grow so much deeper. It takes a lot of nerve to be honest, but to apologize sincerely takes admitting you were wrong. And being honest about our mistakes and weaknesses makes us stronger individuals and deepens our relationships. When people know you, the good and the bad. And know that you own up to things, the level of trust that is built between people is incredible.

And I totally agree with the loving to talk about these things. xD Sorry if this got lengthy ... lol

 

[Obsidius]

Dishonest people, I avoid so much that I don't even notice them, or I just call bullshit on them... And people who create drama, just no, please leave now. But the people who frustrate me the most are the people who claim to like certain people, yet talk about them constantly behind their back. To me this is the worst form of dishonesty; pretending to be great friends with someone, but not actually liking the person. To me talking behind someone's back is just another form of dishonesty; its breaking the unspoken bond of trust between friends. This is different than venting, at least for me. Venting implies pent up frustration, and emotional pain- that if I don't talk about it I'll risk my mental health, and I do my best to avoid any judgement when venting. Talking behind someone's back is gossip; unnecessary judgment; looking down on others you claim to like. People who do this make my skin crawl and I avoid them like Ebola (I was going to say plague, but though hey, why not modernize).

Emotional manipulation. I've done it few times. One time I was aware of what I was doing, but the other times, not so much. The time I was aware I was under an insane amount of stress, and needed to vent to my best friend, but there was this person who i can't stand trying to make small talk with us. So I turned on the charm and asked him to go check on something downstairs... yeah its not my proudest moment . . . over year later I still feel so guilty for doing that. If I have one regret, it would be that lie... that week in general, but that lie. Honesty is something I pride myself on, and I now always have that moment to carry with me. Even if I didn't like the lad, he deserved to be treated with respect. I could have just asked him politely to give my friend and I a minute.

The not so much times, I really missed my friend who was spending all his time with a girl, a week before I left to go abroad... so I said things like "Yeah have fun with her, but don't forget to say good bye to me." Hoping he'd catch on that I missed him... I apologized a week later for acting so jealous and we had a nice heart to heart.


As I've dealt with things over the past year, not just LGBT+ things, but other stuff too, I've come to realize the power of vulnerability (like Brené Brown's Ted Talk). That genuinely apologizing to people, if they are mature enough to accept it, can strengthen a friendship and make it grow so much deeper. It takes a lot of nerve to be honest, but to apologize sincerely takes admitting you were wrong. And being honest about our mistakes and weaknesses makes us stronger individuals and deepens our relationships. When people know you, the good and the bad. And know that you own up to things, the level of trust that is built between people is incredible.

And I totally agree with the loving to talk about these things. xD Sorry if this got lengthy ... lol

Omfg.. You just described someone I know perfectly, and I literally hate them. I know I shouldn't, and I'm not using the word hate in that more modernised and fluffy way, I hate it (yes it XD). I do have to vent sometimes, I tend to do it to myself though, in my head, which is maybe the difference, I only do it externally if I'm really, really pissed off. And yes, they are Ebola XD

And yeah I feel shameful about it too, lying to manipulate is one of the things I feel most guilty about... And honesty is a very good trait to have, just in general, unfortunately it isn't often awarded, and some people get so used to their plastic worlds that honesty is seemingly alien to them...

Yeahhh, don't worry we've all done regrettable things out of jealousy, jealousy in itself is probably the most difficult emotion for me to deal with, mainly because it's so rare and potent... But I can relate to many of those things

That's an interesting approach, I tend to front as an edifice of granite, unflinching in the face of any issue or problem coming my way, but letting someone else see how scratched and broken the edifice has come to be over time, how it has withered under torrents of emotion, it can be edifying to say the least! I too see the value in laying your cards out on the table to those you trust, because what's the point in a friendship if they're not friends with you, but instead some culturally and socially appropriate mask? Or one that has remained undamaged and unrelenting? Letting people in like that can be a truly liberating experience, and it's sad, but I hadn't done than before, until last year.

I'm also sorry if this got lengthy! I'm known for my rambling and tangential spiels XD (Wrote this very quickly, I try to keep up with my stream of consciousness when writing, so may be a fair few spelling and grammar mistakes)

 

[Paris34]

Omfg.. You just described someone I know perfectly, and I literally hate them. I know I shouldn't, and I'm not using the word hate in that more modernised and fluffy way, I hate it (yes it XD). I do have to vent sometimes, I tend to do it to myself though, in my head, which is maybe the difference, I only do it externally if I'm really, really pissed off. And yes, they are Ebola XD

And yeah I feel shameful about it too, lying to manipulate is one of the things I feel most guilty about... And honesty is a very good trait to have, just in general, unfortunately it isn't often awarded, and some people get so used to their plastic worlds that honesty is seemingly alien to them...

Yeahhh, don't worry we've all done regrettable things out of jealousy, jealousy in itself is probably the most difficult emotion for me to deal with, mainly because it's so rare and potent... But I can relate to many of those things

That's an interesting approach, I tend to front as an edifice of granite, unflinching in the face of any issue or problem coming my way, but letting someone else see how scratched and broken the edifice has come to be over time, how it has withered under torrents of emotion, it can be edifying to say the least! I too see the value in laying your cards out on the table to those you trust, because what's the point in a friendship if they're not friends with you, but instead some culturally and socially appropriate mask? Or one that has remained undamaged and unrelenting? Letting people in like that can be a truly liberating experience, and it's sad, but I hadn't done than before, until last year.

I'm also sorry if this got lengthy! I'm known for my rambling and tangential spiels XD (Wrote this very quickly, I try to keep up with my stream of consciousness when writing, so may be a fair few spelling and grammar mistakes)

Yeah people like that, to me they are toxic, and if they make you feel such a strong emotion too, use the word if it helps you feel better. And yeah, I knew some people like that... high school slumber party... 7 girls gossiping for 48h about other friends and even myself when I was in the next room... Yeah I have no respect for people like that. Venting to yourself, haha, yep, that'd be the difference I have to journal to see my thoughts on paper and to make sense of my feelings. I typed out an imaginary conversation with a helpline once because I needed to vent but was too scared to call...

Agreed. And it makes me sad that honesty isn't valued as highly by more people, so while they appreciate my honesty the favor is often not returned, and I can tell if they are dancing around the truth. (though I do have serious issues telling someone if their outfit looks good or not... typically err on the side of white lie, unless I know them well, probably my Fe wanting to maintain external harmony) But to quote harry potter, "in my opinion the truth is generally preferable to lies."

No, its not sad. Its a really hard thing to do. Being 100% authentic and real with people is terrifying. You're putting yourself out there and making yourself the most vulnerable, but I have found that even when your mind convinces you that things are the most terrifying, that nothing good can come of a conversation, and when every bone in your body is telling you to run. Thats when you speak the truth. Or at least thats what coming out felt like. For me, I didn't really open up to people until I had a retreat in high school, and then I started sharing more with others. And since then I've realized how amazingly terrifying yet rewarding it is to be open and honest with others. (Coming out really taught me this) And when people around you see you with out barriers, without facades, without masks they then too slowly begin to lay down their masks and barriers and facades. I so many of my friends opened up to me after I came out to them and explained my struggles, its amazing to me to see that. Its almost like breaking the ice, who texts first or something like that... but once that gate is opened, the relationship is so much rawer and more authentic. (introvert lifeblood.)


And no apologies for lengthy posts. I love it! Deep conversations online, where both people are writing a lot and giving considerate thought; my kind of discussion. (and I didn't even notice the typos, I just glaze over them without much thought)

 

[Obsidius]

Yeah people like that, to me they are toxic, and if they make you feel such a strong emotion too, use the word if it helps you feel better. And yeah, I knew some people like that... high school slumber party... 7 girls gossiping for 48h about other friends and even myself when I was in the next room... Yeah I have no respect for people like that. Venting to yourself, haha, yep, that'd be the difference I have to journal to see my thoughts on paper and to make sense of my feelings. I typed out an imaginary conversation with a helpline once because I needed to vent but was too scared to call...

Agreed. And it makes me sad that honesty isn't valued as highly by more people, so while they appreciate my honesty the favor is often not returned, and I can tell if they are dancing around the truth. (though I do have serious issues telling someone if their outfit looks good or not... typically err on the side of white lie, unless I know them well, probably my Fe wanting to maintain external harmony) But to quote harry potter, "in my opinion the truth is generally preferable to lies."

No, its not sad. Its a really hard thing to do. Being 100% authentic and real with people is terrifying. You're putting yourself out there and making yourself the most vulnerable, but I have found that even when your mind convinces you that things are the most terrifying, that nothing good can come of a conversation, and when every bone in your body is telling you to run. Thats when you speak the truth. Or at least thats what coming out felt like. For me, I didn't really open up to people until I had a retreat in high school, and then I started sharing more with others. And since then I've realized how amazingly terrifying yet rewarding it is to be open and honest with others. (Coming out really taught me this) And when people around you see you with out barriers, without facades, without masks they then too slowly begin to lay down their masks and barriers and facades. I so many of my friends opened up to me after I came out to them and explained my struggles, its amazing to me to see that. Its almost like breaking the ice, who texts first or something like that... but once that gate is opened, the relationship is so much rawer and more authentic. (introvert lifeblood.)


And no apologies for lengthy posts. I love it! Deep conversations online, where both people are writing a lot and giving considerate thought; my kind of discussion. (and I didn't even notice the typos, I just glaze over them without much thought)

I'm lucky that I'm a guy and didn't have to endure that because of social convention! It would have been a mass murder instead of a slumber party XD And yes, hate is a very rare put potent emotion for me, much like jealousy... Awh :3 And imaginary conversation huh? I know this sounds REALLY crazy, but I have conversations in my head, with people I know in them, all the time. Just to kind of, mull things through, thinking and strategising about different social contexts that may present themselves some times soon, almost so I can kind of plan how I will act? Because otherwise it stresses the hell out of me!

Yeah I had to practice and start white lying about clothes recently, because apparently I caused some woman to cry and get changed because she asked my opinion of her dress... I felt so bad, I think I need to compromise between white lie and truth... But in general, honesty is preferable indeed.

I agree! It is almost like a leap of faith, thing is, in classic INTJ fashion I guess, is that a leap of faith is very outside of my character. I really have to assess and think about things, which is hard to do rationally in this context. But I'm glad you did that! Coming out must have been liberating, and I can definitely see how that would help you with people around you, and their opinion of you, I think most can sense sincere honesty. But yeah, having the courage to knock down the door like that is admirable, and very rewarding

Haha so do I! It's definitely a good polarisation from the small talk I have to endure (and I really mean endure) on a day-to-day basis.. IT KILLS ME!
Yeah I try not to make typos, I'm kind of a grammar nazi, but I have to let myself express freely every once and a while :3

 

[Paris34]

I'm lucky that I'm a guy and didn't have to endure that because of social convention! It would have been a mass murder instead of a slumber party XD And yes, hate is a very rare put potent emotion for me, much like jealousy... Awh :3 And imaginary conversation huh? I know this sounds REALLY crazy, but I have conversations in my head, with people I know in them, all the time. Just to kind of, mull things through, thinking and strategising about different social contexts that may present themselves some times soon, almost so I can kind of plan how I will act? Because otherwise it stresses the hell out of me!

Yeah I had to practice and start white lying about clothes recently, because apparently I caused some woman to cry and get changed because she asked my opinion of her dress... I felt so bad, I think I need to compromise between white lie and truth... But in general, honesty is preferable indeed.

I agree! It is almost like a leap of faith, thing is, in classic INTJ fashion I guess, is that a leap of faith is very outside of my character. I really have to assess and think about things, which is hard to do rationally in this context. But I'm glad you did that! Coming out must have been liberating, and I can definitely see how that would help you with people around you, and their opinion of you, I think most can sense sincere honesty. But yeah, having the courage to knock down the door like that is admirable, and very rewarding

Haha so do I! It's definitely a good polarisation from the small talk I have to endure (and I really mean endure) on a day-to-day basis.. IT KILLS ME!
Yeah I try not to make typos, I'm kind of a grammar nazi, but I have to let myself express freely every once and a while :3

Haha XD... And same. I don't think I can remember actually hating anyone (well maybe once or twice, but given time and space I forget pretty quickly.) But in a way, I wonder if apathy is more painful towards someone you used to care about than hate. As hate has the implication that they still hold influence over you, while with apathy you don't care anymore. (Typically my Ne-Fe combination prevents me from either because I see all the ways they could redeem themselves... but if someone does something to really break my trust I will not talk to them again.) Jealousy, I struggle with that a but more. I don't show it that much (at least I hope not), but its pretty much rooted in self-esteem issues that I've got to work through. Haha yes :3 I love imaginary conversations with my friends, most of the conversations I have never actually happen and their all just happening in my head... lol ... But, its a very helpful tool, being able to think about a conversation before it happens. . . but then I typically end up on a tangent thinking about how I'm thinking about thinking about thinking.... . . . . .

Yikes. Yeah, some women - I don't understand most of them - but when they ask "do I like nice," most are just wanting confirmation. But if they look awful, what I typically find is if you want to remain honest do it in a polite way like, "I might change/alter this part a bit/ it might look better like this/ I'm not too sure if that really goes together/maybe wear this instead." Or at least I want to say that, but how it comes out normally is, "thats a stupid jacket, why are you wearing orange and navy plaid hoodie. That doesn't go together." But normally its guys asking my opinion on clothes and they take things less personally... at least I hope...

Yeah leaps of faith are tricky, but often the its not a leap, the pathway is just camouflaged (thinking India Jones and the Last Crusade). And coming out yeah, it really was liberating, but it was tricky. The first person I told was my best guy friend. And as an INFJ, you can imagine I had a great conversation with him and he really put my mind at ease... but when I told my mom next, she wasn't as okay with it/aware as I anticipated, but given time she's adjusted to the idea and educated herself on the topic. And yeah, when someone is being real with you there's an atmosphere or mood in the room that gets developed and you can just tell, that they're being honest. (and you can even tell if they are still concealing some of the truth...)


Oh dear lord! Not the small talk...*runs away and hides* ... being back at home atm, don't get me wrong I love my family, but when almost every dinner conversation is about gym workouts or gym gossip, these conversations create a lovely equilibrium

 

[Obsidius]

Haha XD... And same. I don't think I can remember actually hating anyone (well maybe once or twice, but given time and space I forget pretty quickly.) But in a way, I wonder if apathy is more painful towards someone you used to care about than hate. As hate has the implication that they still hold influence over you, while with apathy you don't care anymore. (Typically my Ne-Fe combination prevents me from either because I see all the ways they could redeem themselves... but if someone does something to really break my trust I will not talk to them again.) Jealousy, I struggle with that a but more. I don't show it that much (at least I hope not), but its pretty much rooted in self-esteem issues that I've got to work through. Haha yes :3 I love imaginary conversations with my friends, most of the conversations I have never actually happen and their all just happening in my head... lol ... But, its a very helpful tool, being able to think about a conversation before it happens. . . but then I typically end up on a tangent thinking about how I'm thinking about thinking about thinking.... . . . . .

Yikes. Yeah, some women - I don't understand most of them - but when they ask "do I like nice," most are just wanting confirmation. But if they look awful, what I typically find is if you want to remain honest do it in a polite way like, "I might change/alter this part a bit/ it might look better like this/ I'm not too sure if that really goes together/maybe wear this instead." Or at least I want to say that, but how it comes out normally is, "thats a stupid jacket, why are you wearing orange and navy plaid hoodie. That doesn't go together." But normally its guys asking my opinion on clothes and they take things less personally... at least I hope...

Yeah leaps of faith are tricky, but often the its not a leap, the pathway is just camouflaged (thinking India Jones and the Last Crusade). And coming out yeah, it really was liberating, but it was tricky. The first person I told was my best guy friend. And as an INFJ, you can imagine I had a great conversation with him and he really put my mind at ease... but when I told my mom next, she wasn't as okay with it/aware as I anticipated, but given time she's adjusted to the idea and educated herself on the topic. And yeah, when someone is being real with you there's an atmosphere or mood in the room that gets developed and you can just tell, that they're being honest. (and you can even tell if they are still concealing some of the truth...)


Oh dear lord! Not the small talk...*runs away and hides* ... being back at home atm, don't get me wrong I love my family, but when almost every dinner conversation is about gym workouts or gym gossip, these conversations create a lovely equilibrium

Yeah I find apathy does hurt people more... Which is what I do now, not because it hurts them, it's easier. If I don't respect someone and they've hurt me or broken my trust, I don't make eye contact, won't talk to them and I pretend they don't exist... It's just easier because a lot of the time these problems can't be solved by me, haven't got the skill set. Yeah jealousy is tough, I just try to completely ignore it because it's the least helpful emotion I can think of. That's crazy! Everytime I tell someone that I do that, they look at me like I'm someone who managed to escape the psych ward. I also go on those tangents XD Except it always ends up concluding in some existential crisis.

Yeah... See, I just said "the colours don't mix, it looks weird", which... Did not work at all... I will definitely do that from now on, seems like it actually works XD And yeah guys can brush that stuff off, usually... Some guys are a little more sensitive. I personally have a terrible fashion sense, I needed to research it for a while because I kept getting told; "Hey Josh, you can't wear tracksuit pants at a party with a loose Agalloch top", pfft, fashion irritates me...

I'm glad you had the courage to do it, I wish more people did, but unfortunately there is still a massive chunk of our culture that is full of bigoted morons. I'm also glad that you had a friend like that for you, would've helped Yeah I can tell when someone is honest in person, I've had an odd amount of experience with liars... I can pick them now, which is always helpful

Yeah, my father is an ISTJ, you can imagine the massive debates arising between him and I... He has this devoted respect for the law and authority, whereas I disrespect any incompetent authority and tend not to recognise them, unfortunately, most authority I come across does not seem competent to me... So MASSIVE debates there, but everyone else in my life is very much "Hey, I went to that shop in the city last week", which is fine, BUT NOT FOR 10 MINUTES. Yes this forum does offer a nice contrast

 

[Paris34]

Yeah I find apathy does hurt people more... Which is what I do now, not because it hurts them, it's easier. If I don't respect someone and they've hurt me or broken my trust, I don't make eye contact, won't talk to them and I pretend they don't exist... It's just easier because a lot of the time these problems can't be solved by me, haven't got the skill set. Yeah jealousy is tough, I just try to completely ignore it because it's the least helpful emotion I can think of. That's crazy! Everytime I tell someone that I do that, they look at me like I'm someone who managed to escape the psych ward. I also go on those tangents XD Except it always ends up concluding in some existential crisis.

Yeah... See, I just said "the colours don't mix, it looks weird", which... Did not work at all... I will definitely do that from now on, seems like it actually works XD And yeah guys can brush that stuff off, usually... Some guys are a little more sensitive. I personally have a terrible fashion sense, I needed to research it for a while because I kept getting told; "Hey Josh, you can't wear tracksuit pants at a party with a loose Agalloch top", pfft, fashion irritates me...

I'm glad you had the courage to do it, I wish more people did, but unfortunately there is still a massive chunk of our culture that is full of bigoted morons. I'm also glad that you had a friend like that for you, would've helped Yeah I can tell when someone is honest in person, I've had an odd amount of experience with liars... I can pick them now, which is always helpful

Yeah, my father is an ISTJ, you can imagine the massive debates arising between him and I... He has this devoted respect for the law and authority, whereas I disrespect any incompetent authority and tend not to recognise them, unfortunately, most authority I come across does not seem competent to me... So MASSIVE debates there, but everyone else in my life is very much "Hey, I went to that shop in the city last week", which is fine, BUT NOT FOR 10 MINUTES. Yes this forum does offer a nice contrast

A lot of the times I don't even notice I get apathetic, if someone really does something to break my trust, its almost unconsciously that I write them out of my life, I feel hurt and betrayed of course, but it doesn't take me long to move on, (although I do hold grudges from time to time . . .) Yeah, jealousy is an dangerous beast. For me, I tried getting to the root of mine this break and it actually helped a lot. I think sometimes just getting to the roots of our issues and working through those primal fears and insecurities, while difficult, can make the world of difference in our lives. Haha, yeah I tend to keep my imaginary conversations on the DL, but I don't really hide my other strange habits... like talking about how the chair looks like a saltine cracker. . . boy did that one illicit some strange looks from my friends... a frequent joke amongst my them is saying "Michelle's high again." They know that it pisses me off too because thats pretty much the opposite of what I'm like. XD Haha, oh good old existential crises, I don't know if I've had too many of those, although the other day I was seriously doubting my choice of Art major. . .

Yeah, I can see where some would take offense. I think the key is really in the intonation of your voice, and trying to make it sound softer and kinder. Typically I'm only blunt with the people I know really well, and then we often just start jokingly bickering with on another XD. And I don't see anything wrong with that outfit, although if it was a formal party... maybe make it a bit fancier, throw on a tie or some dress shoes maybe . I don't really pay attention to fashion, but people tell me I always look put together. Skinny jeans, t-shirt, sweater, scarf, converse and I'm good to go.

Thanks. Yeah, for the most part the "bigoted morons" fall into one of two categories: (1) simply uneducated, have not had exposure to positive queer representation, and therefore have a narrow minded stereotypical view of the community: cure- education and representation. (2) often also mixed with type 1, but people who are dogmatic in their religious beliefs. If they can't understand through education or exposure, they will likely not be convinced. I find this sad, really. Its disappointing, considering the foundation of most, I would even argue all religions, is loving and respecting others. I mean I gawk at Christians who use things like leviticus to spew hate, yet in the New Testament, their founder is 'quoted' saying "he who is without sin cast the first stone..." yeah... and I don't quite know what happened to the love thy neighbor bit either ... But for the most part those people are becoming the minority, which shows the amazing progress we're making But I cant even imagine what it must be like for people who live in the bible belt in the US, or Russia... And my friend, I don't know where I'd be today if I didn't have his support. And liars are one of my least favorite species, and I'm sorry you had to deal with people like that, but I'm glad you able to spot the difference now Lair-dar, perhaps like gay-dar but for liars !


ISTJ and an INTJ under the same roof... oh no... I totally understand the feel though. ESTJ mom. I'll obey the law, but thats because I don't want to cause trouble or hurt people, and I understand and agree with the logic. Authority figures? What are those? (Yeah, that mentality got me into loads of trouble with my mom when i was little, I was "a little angel" at school, well probably the weird quiet kid who avoided others... but at home I wasn't going to conform to this dictator ruling the house.) xD

 

[Obsidius]

A lot of the times I don't even notice I get apathetic, if someone really does something to break my trust, its almost unconsciously that I write them out of my life, I feel hurt and betrayed of course, but it doesn't take me long to move on, (although I do hold grudges from time to time . . .) Yeah, jealousy is an dangerous beast. For me, I tried getting to the root of mine this break and it actually helped a lot. I think sometimes just getting to the roots of our issues and working through those primal fears and insecurities, while difficult, can make the world of difference in our lives. Haha, yeah I tend to keep my imaginary conversations on the DL, but I don't really hide my other strange habits... like talking about how the chair looks like a saltine cracker. . . boy did that one illicit some strange looks from my friends... a frequent joke amongst my them is saying "Michelle's high again." They know that it pisses me off too because thats pretty much the opposite of what I'm like. XD Haha, oh good old existential crises, I don't know if I've had too many of those, although the other day I was seriously doubting my choice of Art major. . .

Yeah, I can see where some would take offense. I think the key is really in the intonation of your voice, and trying to make it sound softer and kinder. Typically I'm only blunt with the people I know really well, and then we often just start jokingly bickering with on another XD. And I don't see anything wrong with that outfit, although if it was a formal party... maybe make it a bit fancier, throw on a tie or some dress shoes maybe . I don't really pay attention to fashion, but people tell me I always look put together. Skinny jeans, t-shirt, sweater, scarf, converse and I'm good to go.

Thanks. Yeah, for the most part the "bigoted morons" fall into one of two categories: (1) simply uneducated, have not had exposure to positive queer representation, and therefore have a narrow minded stereotypical view of the community: cure- education and representation. (2) often also mixed with type 1, but people who are dogmatic in their religious beliefs. If they can't understand through education or exposure, they will likely not be convinced. I find this sad, really. Its disappointing, considering the foundation of most, I would even argue all religions, is loving and respecting others. I mean I gawk at Christians who use things like leviticus to spew hate, yet in the New Testament, their founder is 'quoted' saying "he who is without sin cast the first stone..." yeah... and I don't quite know what happened to the love thy neighbor bit either ... But for the most part those people are becoming the minority, which shows the amazing progress we're making But I cant even imagine what it must be like for people who live in the bible belt in the US, or Russia... And my friend, I don't know where I'd be today if I didn't have his support. And liars are one of my least favorite species, and I'm sorry you had to deal with people like that, but I'm glad you able to spot the difference now Lair-dar, perhaps like gay-dar but for liars !


ISTJ and an INTJ under the same roof... oh no... I totally understand the feel though. ESTJ mom. I'll obey the law, but thats because I don't want to cause trouble or hurt people, and I understand and agree with the logic. Authority figures? What are those? (Yeah, that mentality got me into loads of trouble with my mom when i was little, I was "a little angel" at school, well probably the weird quiet kid who avoided others... but at home I wasn't going to conform to this dictator ruling the house.) xD

Hmmm, very different from me, I guess it isn't apathy then... It's feigned apathy, I pretend to not notice them, because they know what they did hurt me and haven't apologised, they don't deserve my attention Well, they don't deserve to perceive it XD Hmmm, see I know exactly what makes me jealous, and I can't seem to stop it, it's one of the rare things in my emotions that I can't suppress entirely, which is a shame, because I hate being jealous. But don't worry, I am trying to work on it as best as I can, I guess the main problem is that my jealousy is imagined... Weird isn't it, I never get jealous in real life, I get jealous by imagined futures, which is a thing I do, I consider future scenarios in certain contexts and some of them make me sincerely jealous, such a strange thing. Haha screw that man, saltine crackers and chairs are clearly the alike XD Yeah they're a funny thing, partly why I started to identify with existentialism, also because I see it to make a lot of sense.

Yeah I can tell now, I now say things with a shrug, in a higher more suggestive rather than critical pitch, seems to make all the difference in those circumstances. Haha you sounds exactly like someone I know by the way you dress, yeah nowadays (my ex was really into fashion) I dress a lot better, I wear nice button-up shirts, black jeans and black shoes out, with some squarish black glasses if I want to look like the geek I am, and bam, I go from a solid 1/10, to a fantastic 2 Bickering can be fun, I like bickering with someone that I can make subtle references to common interests with.

Yeah I find they fall into those 2 as well, although you come across as much more civil in your descriptions I guess type 2 are the ones we have a problem with, hey are truly annoying, I try my best not to confront them now, it's never productive, and it isn't fun or thought provoking either. Those Christians are the worst; if they're going to condemn homosexuality by citing Leviticus, I better bloody well not catch them wearing mixed fabrics, or growing two crops in the same field XD Man those rules are stupid, even in the context they were supposed to be enforced in. Yeah if I had to live in the US Bible Belt, well, I would have dug myself a nice bunker, collected all the books I wanted to read had myself a nice time Sounds like an awesome friend And yeah, I learnt the hard way, but it's better than not learning I think XD

Yeah I obey some laws because I agree (ie, murder is bad XD), and I don't do drugs because I have no desire to, but it's mostly because of the fear of punishment, or hurting others. But censorship laws... Like not selling a certain game (referencing one called Hatred in particular) because it's "too violent" is just stupid. Haha I was so similar! I was the weird quiet kid in the corner, with one or two friends, that always read books and followed the rules, but at home, I told my mum that I can bloody well play with my Hotwheels after 8pm if I so please