[NT] NT - most brutal

[mippus]

You mean... most of us can possibly learn that. :rolli:

No, I mean what I wrote. That's why I wrote it

 

[mippus]

Well, I sure don't agree with that!... and I can back it up (but don't care to share the personal unless its needed) It is extremely hard for me to determine how an "F" for instance is taking what I say or how I say it. I wouldn't hurt a fly... and I mean that quite literally.. I have ants I can't kill right now and am trying, instead, to relocate them. I am always shocked when I've, inadvertently, hurt someone and care deeply (admittedly on a more intellectual level... but "care" none-the-less.) I find "Fs" to actually be the most "closed" of all types. Sure, they react emotionally but seldom open up enough for me to know what they're thinking/feeling on a personal level... how they're "filtering" what I say.. so how am I to know how they will take something? I feel like I'm walking through a mine field communicating with them.

I recognise that. It is not only that F's would be closed or "minefields", it also often means that they set standards for communication.

 

[Nocapszy]

Most brutal? Brute force?
NT?

ENFJ. No contest. Even an ENTJs anger pales in the burning furnaces of an ENFJs gaze.

NTs are off handedly brutal yes but when they focus they are more like very skilled surgeons. Of course the fact that they ensure you DON'T sleep through the operation is quite worrying...

Xander++;

 

[Blackmail!]

I recognise that. It is not only that F's would be closed or "minefields", it also often means that they set standards for communication.

On the contrary, I'd say F types usually give you easy clues or hints when you have to guess what they think, while most T types are either impossible to decipher, or either in self-denial.

I am a T myself, but believe me, communication with fellow T is sometimes very difficult, mostly because T's have a tendency to think:

1) they are always right
2) their opinion only matters
3) they are always rational and objective even when they're obviously not
4) emotions don't affect them, while in fact they do

On the other hand, F types express themselves more easily what really matters for them. It's a kind of nonverbal language you have to learn, like I tried to do. Despite common belief, this "language" is quite consistent and predictable. There's always a reason, even to "random outbursts". Observe their faces, observe how they react, and learn, learn, learn... Knowing how to analyze it is not only a skill, it is a form of intelligence.
A T type who has learned to master this subtle art can communicate WAY MORE effectively his ideas or assimilate those of others.

 

[digesthisickness]

blackmail, your posts reek of F.

instead of going around correcting NTs on what being an NT is, why not examine the possibility that you may not be one.

 

[Seanan]

blackmail, your posts reek of F.

instead of going around correcting NTs on what being an NT is, why not examine the possibility that you may not be one.

I soooo agree.

 

[Blackmail!]

blackmail, your posts reek of F.

instead of going around correcting NTs on what being an NT is, why not examine the possibility that you may not be one.

1) Because learning to tame and use my emotions was a long and rather recent process. It was tiring, it was difficult, but it was rewarding as well. When I was a teen, I was unable to cope with that, I was just... like most people here.
ENTPs develop Fe as their tertiary (as young adults), so don't worry, everything is normal for me and fits well within the MBTI parameters. What about you?

2) Because when dealing with NTs or in hot debates, I can sometimes be awfully cold, logic and brutally honest. I "regress", or "devolve" into my former (immature) self.
(Try to use a sophism with me, you'll understand)

3) Because I talked about efficiency. True NFs could find my approach quite machiavellic and possibly frightening.

 

[miss fortune]

now you seem to be a bit harsh on your assessment of NTs there Blackmail! some of us know better than to come off as harsh as a shot of Bacardi 151 (which by the way is totally nasty )- being flat out nasty to people really won't get you anywhere in life- to be truly Machiavellian you need to appear nice

You would have come across as being an ENFP there because you seem so sensitive to the insults and speaking tactics, which would be more indicative of Fi than Fe

Just thought I'd clear that up!

 

[Blackmail!]

to be truly Machiavellian you need to appear nice

Exactly.

You would have come across as being an ENFP there because you seem so sensitive to the insults and speaking tactics, which would be more indicative of Fi than Fe

I usually care very moderatly about insults. Where have you seen that?
I'm sure our friend "digesthisickness" has already noticed it!

I have only a very average Fi, and hence, I do not deal well with internal values. My primary instinct is rather "How does it work?" rather than "Is it good or bad?".

Besides, ENFPs don't like to argue just for the sake of arguing. I do.

---

Indeed, I have a very high Fe. This means I am interested into how people feel and behave according to this, while my own personal feelings are often secondary. Fe is very useful when you try to understand people, not Fi.

Is it so difficult to get it? Frankly?

 

[miss fortune]

I was just explaining why it could be construed that way High Fe will get you accused of being an F, don't you know that?

 

[Blackmail!]

I was just explaining why it could be construed that way High Fe will get you accused of being an F, don't you know that?

Well, since Fe is the inferior function of INTP's, their greatest weakness, no wonder they can't understand it!!!
No wonder everything I say just seems so alien for them. I can't blame them, it just means I am a different brand of NT than they are, that's all...

Should someone try to explain me how Si works instead, I would be lost and confused too... -I never really figured it out, so far-

My Fe may be high, but my Ne and Ti are even (far) higher.

 

[Blackmail!]

I soooo agree.

Anyway, if I am harsh with NTs, it's because:

1) He who understands well, chastises well.

2) I can refer to my own flaws. And I am not especially lenient or soft on myself.

3) I think mature NTs are able to cope well with criticism.

4) I think they will be able to figure and analyze the logic behind it, rather than trigger the defence mechanisms of their formidable Egos.

5) As a matter of fact, somehow, I am proving that NTs can be brutal, even brutally honest, no??

 

[Seanan]

Amazing... now we have an NTP attempting to induce types boiling down to being the same ... oh, if they're "mature" or have worked hard enough... give me a break or just admit you don't think there is such a thing as MBtypes. This induction process just will not wash with me.

I'm sorry... really, I mean no offense, but I've only seen "Fs" do that.

 

[Blackmail!]

Amazing... now we have an NTP attempting to induce types boiling down to being the same ... oh, if they're "mature" or have worked hard enough... give me a break or just admit you don't think there is such a thing as MBtypes. This induction process just will not wash with me.

No, it doesn't mean the same, and it has nothing to do with inductive reasoning whatsoever.

When I'm refering to terms like "mature", or "immature", I'm thinking to the fourth dimension of MBTI (-> Time), what's called the "individuation process" by C-G Jung himself. The fact I developed my Fe only as a young adult doesn't have the same implications as if it would have been my dominant or auxiliary function. NOT AT ALL.

The order of appearance (as child, as teen, as adult) is essential for the later interactions between the functions.

For instance, an ESFJ (dominant Fe) will not use his Fe the same way as I would, even if my own Fe was the highest someone could ever imagine. The goals are not the same. I use my Fe as a tool, as a function made to tune or refine my Ti, while for the ESFJ, it would simply be his raison d'etre.

---

If I didn't think there could such a thing as MBTI types, you wouldn't have so much difficulties to figure out what Fe (your inferior function) represents. It's normal, it fits well within the framework of the Jungian theory. Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

 

[miss fortune]

there are 8 functions that make each person up

and not all NTs do fall into the baser characteristics of the type and therefore would rather not be classified that way

 

[Seanan]

I have read what you said Black and, my apologies, hubby is on the way home and I have to go but, would you mind considering that you may have worked so hard at that development that you've actually taken on the persona of one? I seriously do see much of what you have said on this thread as vry "F" and I don't mean to be disrespecting you. I said when I came on this group that I would never presume to type anyone and am not doing that. I just can't relate to how you're characterizing NTs and, if I recall correctly (?) INTPs, in particular. I understand they are the hardest types to determine and with good reason. Perhaps you err in thinking they actually are "narcissistic" and/or "autistic." But its statements like that that really make me wonder.

Sorry... be back later.

 

[Blackmail!]

Anyway Seanan...

Have you noticed that an INTJ chose to agree with me?
It's not surprising.

There's a big difference between the NT's who can develop a Feeling function as their tertiary (ENTP-> Fe, INTJ-> Fi), and the NT's who would likely never understand or figure how to use them since it's their inferior preferences (INTP's and ENTJs).

But do not confuse mature ENTPs or INTJs with Feelers, because then you would make a deep mistake. Do not assume every NT's have the same weaknesses as you have.
Like I already said, my own inferior function is Si and so far, I do not understand what it means. When I read the description, it seems... cryptic, like if someone would talk to me in a completely foreign language.

If I notice an INTP with a high Si (it's your tertiary), however, I hope I would not try to accuse him/her to rather be an ISTP... It would be false and pointless.

 

[Mondo]

No, I rather confuse NT's with sudden emotional outbursts.

This will work. It will cause the NT to malfunction, say sorry, and then go on a lecture about Ayn Rand to try to explain to the NF the reasons why causing an NT to malfunction is immoral.

 

[miss fortune]

morals? don't bring that dirty FJ word into this thread!

 

[Seanan]

Hubby is delayed... :sad:

Thanks for the input. Yes, I will agree... we are very different. Hope that wasn't too egotistical.