[NT] NT - most brutal

[sakuraba]

NT have a way with words. Not the type of ppl you wanna mess with really. From what Ive observed can be the most ruthless, brutal, cold blooded folks out there.

Not in every day life. That would be the SJ. But when it comes to battle. You really dont want an NT on the opposite side of you.

 

[Oso Mocoso]

NT have a way with words. Not the type of ppl you wanna mess with really. From what Ive observed can be the most ruthless, brutal, cold blooded folks out there.

"A way with words", yes. Actually, this causes problems for me sometimes. When I get angry, I sometimes say things to people I love that hurt them long after I've stopped being angry. I sometimes wish I could unsay stuff.

Not in every day life. That would be the SJ. But when it comes to battle. You really dont want an NT on the opposite side of you.

A lot of NTs have been famous generals. I think the NT take on violence is that you don't want to be the least bit sporting about it, you want to find the most effective and efficient way of killing the other guys. They don't view the battlefield as being made up of people with feelings, it's just a mental problem to solve in the most effective way possible.

 

[Tallulah]

NT have a way with words. Not the type of ppl you wanna mess with really. From what Ive observed can be the most ruthless, brutal, cold blooded folks out there.

Not in every day life. That would be the SJ. But when it comes to battle. You really dont want an NT on the opposite side of you.

Sometimes. A lot of NTs have a problem with rage, and their ability to distill their thoughts into the most streamlined, blunt way possible makes the things they say in anger extremely hurtful.

Having said that, I believe that NTs are often perceived as angry and unfeeling when we're really just messing around and being funny in a deadpan way. Heavy feeling types don't always know that a lot of the stuff we say isn't personal at all. We're just goofing, in our own way. I used to write poems in grad school that were little funny social commentaries, ala Dorothy Parker or Odgen Nash. Sometimes I got comments like, "Whoa! That's harsh!" even when they were laughing, but to me, I was just amusing myself. I'd never intentionally hurt someone. All's fair in humor.

 

[edel weiss]

Having said that, I believe that NTs are often perceived as angry and unfeeling when we're really just messing around and being funny in a deadpan way. Heavy feeling types don't always know that a lot of the stuff we say isn't personal at all.

Yes. People often seem to think I'm angry most of the time and that I get annoyed very easily. I really don't. In fact, I rarely ever get angry. I just get involved in things and activities very deeply, and if people are being difficult, I sometimes start shouting at them. But I don't particularly care of they don't listen anyway.

Some of my friends are scared of me.

 

[white]

NT have a way with words. Not the type of ppl you wanna mess with really. From what Ive observed can be the most ruthless, brutal, cold blooded folks out there.

Not in every day life. That would be the SJ. But when it comes to battle. You really dont want an NT on the opposite side of you.

Just throwing this out for discussion in my cold T way , please no one take anything personally.

Perhaps because all NTs have F only as tertiary or inferior functions. So the outright appearance is that of coldness.

But one can also say, that if a T really cares about you then, they care about you. It is regardless of external dictates which say you have to be nice to someone, whether or not you like them (Fe) and you could run counter to their own values (Fi), but... they love you inspite of. That is why love is not easy for NTs. It is past reason. It hits them and penetrates them when they did not seek it, incapacitating their normal functioning. vs an NF, welcoming the emotions.

That seems cold to others. But I prefer to see it perhaps, as a more selective choice, of whom to love and care for. And that if they love you, they do, simply. I wonder if NTs ever fall out of love completely.

Vs an NF, with F as dominant or auxilliary. The surface is always warm, friendly, loving. So... the impression everyone has is that all NFs are warm and fuzzy and loving... But in their hearts... You never really know if they love you because of you, or because you're the perfect fit for their lives (Fe), and you fit some role in their image of how things should be (Fi). I think NFs tend to love, because of. That is the seeking I mean.

So.. as in love, so in battle. The T chooses clearly, what he wants to protect, whom he wants to extend it to. And because the clarity is not clouded by external pressures of whom and why he should do something, he'd hold to whatever is necessary to win, to protect what he feels he should. If an NT was protecting me, and swore he'd do it, I know I could expect loyalty to the death from him/her, simply. At that stage, it is past reason. It just is.

From an NF, I'd be worried about allegiances shifting. If the reason for defending me dies within the NF for e.g. The F would motivate him to seek other things to protect, to fulfill his sense of self. vs a sense of duty.

So yea... the choice of cold-bloodedness, ruthlessness and brutality... It is a question of perspective, merely?

My 2 cents.

 

[Usehername]

I'd be most scared of an NF if they really got enraged. They see through interpersonal stuff sometimes even better than the critical-minded and problem-seeker-by-nature NTs.

 

[nemo]

$%*(&^$#

My friends say I'm intimidating too.

WTF

I don't think I am *at all*. I've never had anger management problems or anything -- if anything, the opposite.

I sometimes give that "I'm studying every detail of what you say" glare, but I'm just dissecting what people say.

Bah!

Edit: @ aelan's comments, yes, "falling" for someone is a strangely agonizing experience for me, but once I've synthesized all those feelings I am theirs forever (or at least, some part of me, even after a breakup)

 

[sakuraba]

I'd be most scared of an NF if they really got enraged. They see through interpersonal stuff sometimes even better than the critical-minded and problem-seeker-by-nature NTs.

No.

What's most scary about NT's is their persistance and relentlessness. NF might be critical for a few minutes, or even days. But they won't sustain it like an NT does.

NT will study you like a bug and then crush you without mercy.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I'd agree.

NTs are excellent at debate and can use words to defeat you (non NT) by spinning your words against you, by deconstructing your argument with more precision, by building arguments using personal information to deconstruct one's character, by using bigger words to sound sophisticated and revered, and by disconnecting from their feelings and unleashing all their ideas. They also have confidence in their skills. The I's can be particularly vicious since they're less needy and can dispose of friendships with greater ease.

 

[Seanan]

Okay, I wrote a long post and deleted it... because I was still coming up with thoughts about things that have been said to me about this. So, I'm just going to reply this way. Yes, I think alot of NTs can be seen that way, myself certainly included, but I think we're misunderstood by more "sensitive" types. I don't think its my intention to be (brutal, etc). To me "brutality" implies a wish to harm. I don't recall ever having that intention but, when I have an issue with what someone's done or expressed, I will go after it with a vengance. .. not them... the action or idea. If they resist, then yes, I will use their own words to close the gap. That's the only way I can be sure they'll follow my point... (saves time and effort) nothing more or less intended. I will also approach socratically using their words. That does seem to be quite annoying to some which simply tells me it works. But brutal? I wouldn't see it that way were I on the receiving end.

Someone here posted that NTs make good Generals due to a strategic viewpoint without regard for the individual's feelings... something like that. Is that brutal? I mean, really, they aren't there to coddle or nurture an enemy. They're there to take prisoners or kill them. Its kill or be killed. Killing the enemy is saving your own people. I guess war is brutal in a sense but those waging it, as individuals, aren't necessarily. I was a Captain's Driver and had many long conversations about this. They suffer.

 

[alcea rosea]

NoBut when it comes to battle. You really dont want an NT on the opposite side of you.

I agree.
But there is a way to confuse the NT but not by any logical means.

 

[Butterfly]

I agree.
But there is a way to confuse the NT but not by any logical means.

Are you thinking what Im thinking?
*Whispers: Kill them with love?

 

[alcea rosea]

Are you thinking what Im thinking?
*Whispers: Kill them with love?

No, I rather confuse NT's with sudden emotional outbursts.

 

[mippus]

No, I rather confuse NT's with sudden emotional outbursts.

OUCH!!! That is our weak spot indeed, since it is so irrational, unpredictable and confusing...

 

[Blackmail!]

Immature NT's are often considered very brutal, yes.

The illusion of rationality can give them too much self-assurance, and hence make them display their worst side.
Being brutal means you are not aware of context, and hence, is rather a sign of lack of intelligence.

What's the point of having an argument if it's not understood or immediately dismissed?

Many NT's say they did not mean to intentionally harm, but I think that's a vague excuse for not being aware of their own aggression instinct.

 

[Night]

Interesting.

The underlying premise of this thread seems a suggestion that enhanced rationality and/or clarity of vision produces brutality?

No.

Quite the opposite usually, I find. To realize (and therefore embrace) the intellectual structures of others - a trait not localized with or necessarily championed by the NT (sidenote) - tends to create an elevated sense of personality responsibility to others, rather than against them.

The "most brutal" is usually therefore the most thoughtless.

Edit: Well said, Blackmail.

 

[Butterfly]

No, I rather confuse NT's with sudden emotional outbursts.

hehehe good one.!

Immature NT's are often considered very brutal, yes.

The illusion of rationality can give them too much self-assurance, and hence make them display their worst side.
Being brutal means you are not aware of context, and hence, is rather a sign of lack of intelligence.

What's the point of having an argument if it's not understood or immediately dismissed?

Many NT's say they did not mean to intentionally harm, but I think that's a vague excuse for not being aware of their own aggression instinct.

Nicely put Blackmail. And Later they come to you for more understanding, after much deliberation, regret and guilt. sighhh.

 

[Totenkindly]

....Someone here posted that NTs make good Generals due to a strategic viewpoint without regard for the individual's feelings... something like that. Is that brutal? I mean, really, they aren't there to coddle or nurture an enemy. They're there to take prisoners or kill them. Its kill or be killed. Killing the enemy is saving your own people. I guess war is brutal in a sense but those waging it, as individuals, aren't necessarily. I was a Captain's Driver and had many long conversations about this. They suffer.

I had written something about this but never posted it.

Yes, I don't think it's as personal for NT leaders in some sort of conflict... at least not the NTPs. (I think NTJs probably do take things a little more personally, but not nearly as personally as STs can and do...)

I hate war and I hate the thought of killing people, but if I have to fight and I think the danger is real enough, I would not mess around with niceties. You fight to win, and you win with as least damage to yourself and your cause as possible, and you get it over with as soon as you can.

Strategically, if you're in a war, you can't depend on the other side following "rules" or somehow sparing you. If you're going to fight and can't find another option, you need to win, and you minimize risk to yourself by removing the opposition. if you're not willing to do that, you're serving yourself badly to enter a war.

It's a detached strategic analysis of a situation and the most efficient way to approach it.... and I prefer that others carry out the plan, if I have that option.

Why do I prefer others do it? Because I'm not a brutal person. I can be impersonal and approach things in terms of risk-management when I need to... but I still empathize with others and this diminishes my effectiveness in a hands-on role. I do strategy because I'm NOT brutal.

I think NTPs are like that, in general. They'll dance around and play, sometimes get nasty depending on their past and the situation, but overall they don't really enjoy brutalizing others. The majority of the damage they cause is from being too impersonal and not fully understanding the impact of their actions/words on people who do not think/process things as they do.

NTJs do seem to personalize more, overall.

 

[FemMecha]

I tend to be wary of discussions that merge character traits with personality traits. The personality types determine cognitive processing. Brutality results from conditioning. People who are made to feel powerless by an oppressor and through choice and opportunity learn to relieve that sense of powerlessness by oppressing others, develop brutality. This process can be imposed on any personality type. The manner in which brutality is processed and expressed will differ based on which functions dominate and how they relate, etc. It may be that the NT, or any T will be more direct in their brutality. This may give the perception that there is an inclination. However, sugar coated brutality can be most painful as well. People are complex and it seems problematic to assign a character trait to a personality in this manner. What do you think?

 

[Priam]

No, I rather confuse NT's with sudden emotional outbursts.

Watch what NTs you do that with... some react quite badly.