How is this different from anyone who has part of their identity denied or criticised by different others? Believe it or not, people who fall outside the gender binary are not the only ones who experience this.
I never made any claims about that in the first place, so bringing it up is frankly, very irrelevant and it reeks of a strawman. That was never the point, whether others experience it or not or how others experience their identity and whatever. The point is to understand that it is important to them and that it causes pain. Why it does so or what triggers or generates it, all that is largely irrelevant.
Part of the problem is that people who are having such an experience, whether because of gender issues or other distinctions, often feel entitled to the kind of treatment they desire without taking the time to explain how they want to be treated.
Can you give ONE example of where such entitlement occurs? And why
this notion of entitlement is somehow worse than any other form of entitlement people can experience when people make claims to have parts of their identity respected?
Gender issues are unique in this regard simply due to how our language uses pronouns. Until and unless this is changed globally in the English language (or whatever language is being used), people who are mistaken for a gender they don't identify with will keep needing to make the correction, AND not assume that the error is intentional or based in deliberate disrespect.
It's not about language use, and I have no idea why you and others, harp on language. Language is but one tiny speck of this shithole called gender. No one made any claims about that people expect others to know without them saying anything or that they automatically assume everyone is vile and always deliberately says the wrong thing on purpose. However, it is extremely frustrating when you incessantly need to correct other people even after they know. I don't know why you operate on the underlying assumption that trans people automatically think people are ill-intended. There are paranoid trans folks out there, but paranoia isn't unique or explicit to being transgender. You will find the same attitude in a wide range of individuals who will react the same way but to other aspects of their identity e.g. religion, what have, whatever they hold important to their sense of self. One could equally argue that your attempt to argue back and to justify your position is in fact, a reflection of something akin to it.
People do not choose their gender identity, but they do choose how to react in situations where their identity is misinterpreted. The whole world is not out to get you. There is a difference between people who treat you the wrong way out of ignorance, and those who do so out of judgment or malice. The first just need to be enlightened, and being judgmental with them in turn will lose a potential ally or even friend.
So? The world at large, in many cases, when it comes to trans people,
is out to get them. The entire society itself is built against you. It is evidently clear here, that you do not realize the extremity of how deep this goes, and how much it takes to go against the status quo. For most trans people, just being able to pick a public restroom they see fit can pose direct threat to their being, and for people who feel shoehorned to pick between a choice that they don't identify with, that's also largely unnecessary.
But I see I am speaking to deaf ears. You make an implicit claim that you belong in the camp of the educated or in the very least, is accepting to be educated but no, I don't see such attitude coming from you. If you were, you would simply accept the experience and let it be instead of arguing over it and trying to find loopholes that would somehow circumvent the experience felt as negligible. Trans people do not seek to be special snowflakes, nor do most trans people operate on that people are automatically ill-intended. You cannot, however, blame trans people for turning jaded when the entire society they live in work so hard to deny them their own experience and their rights to self-expression.
That's really how simple it is and again, I don't even understand why this is even a subject to be discussed or why it needs to be compared to other kinds of experiences. Then one is clearly not empathizing with what is being said and presented and actually try to understand from their shoes, as much as one is simply intellectually masturbating while still remaining detached from the actually felt experience of what is truly going on. Get the experience. Get out in the real world. Feel it, realize that it feels real and deals with actual real people. That's how you get it. Not sitting and observing from an armchair and think you "get" it through intellectual masturbation.
here's the thing ^^^ I never thought we were refering to you as the victim as i don't give a shit about you. all I wanted was to understand the need for so many labels as i find them in any capacity especially socially to be restrictive when the 5 or 6 i proposed would cover everything. I was speaking general. but thank you for calling me a bigot when you wouldn't even take the time to get what i was actually saying. and the other thing you do look like you're playing the victim at this point because you saying i have every right to be the victim and act like no one else does. lot of people here have had shit happen to them just because they're not talking about it does not mean you have a monopoly on bad shit happening to you. so once again i don't care about you this thread was never about you. it was never about how you express yourself it was I DON"T FUCKING UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR THAT MANY LABELS.
Here's the thing: don't respond to a post that is clearly
not directed at you and try to turn it against the poster in order to validate your position. Again, I addressed your point about labels. You don't think they are necessary and I made it evidently clear that it shouldn't matter. Why does it bother you? People can call themselves whatever they want. Do you think anyone outside of this MBTI forum gives a fuck whether you think you are an INTJ or an INTP? There are people out there who would laugh at that too and think that's a special snowflake attitude, and this is a claim I already expressed to you, or that you, in such a cool defiant stance, rather call yourself a "yupp" because you for one reason or another, do not want to identify with an MBTI type. It can easily be as interpreted as seeking to be a snowflake by trying to make a claim to be above or outside the MBTI label system.
Ironic, isn't it?
You don't need to understand or like it, but merely respect it and don't be an asshole when expressing that view. That's rather simple but it seems impossible for you to write a single post without falling back on personal attacks.
The point is to erase all categories except the ones which people, for better or worse, are kind of naturally programmed to be curious about: penis or vagina. If we do away with gender, not feeling like a boy can be a natural expression of being a boy, that is, of having a penis. In other words, it becomes meaningless to say 'feel like a boy', which, I believe, is just another way of saying 'feel like I think most boys feel' anyway. 'Two billion shades of male, female, and shemale' was supposed to signify individual treatment, not 'being treated as a boy', a monochrome representative of one of two (or three) possible personality patterns.
I have always wondered how much of the gender dysphoria transgender people experience is a result of feeling different from, in contrast to converse to, other members of their sex. From an epistemological point of view, nobody born with a penis knows how it feels to be a girl. He is likely to know how it feels to be in the wrong body, but is wrongness an intrinsic emotion or a discrepancy between what is and what, by society, parents, friends, and ultimately oneself, is supposed to be? In my experience, the only time children have a problem with their gender is when someone else draws attention to their being different from an irrelevant majority.
Yeah, this is what happens when cis people try to understand, especially cis people who are clearly cognitively undualized. The simplest way to understand it is to compare it to something that you think should be or not be there. If you lost an arm, wouldn't you still have an innate experience that the arm should be there, be a part of you? Or similarly, if you somehow began to develop a gigantic zit on your face, I'm pretty that you at should level would feel that it should
not be there. Gender dysphoria operates the same way but on a much more gigantic scale. You don't feel that your physical bits match your internally felt experience, at least when it comes to transsexuals. For other people, it can just be a discomfort with social roles and expectations. It largely depends on the person since being trans comes in a wide spectrum. Some people realize they are actually happy with the way their body works but are unhappy with social gender roles. Some people realize it's both. Some people realize they are fine with the gender role they actually inhabit but do not like their bodies aka butch/femme people.
The point is to understand that physical sex isn't the end all to categorize and shouldn't be. Your thinking is erroneous since you equalize "being a boy" with "having a penis", since you are only categorizing based on the physical dimension. When trans people say, "I feel like a boy", they don't just mean the social part. It's more than that and it's an experience I don't think a cis person can ever understand unless we reverse the question and say, "how do you know that you are X?" Likely because you, at some level, identify with X because it makes sense to you and there is no internally felt experience of contradiction between your body and your sense of self.
Also, I would encourage you to stop use the term "shemale" as it's a term explicitly used in porn and is a largely derogatory term to use in order to refer to MtF individuals and the like.
Last but not least, there is science pointing to that our gender identity is at least partially biologically determined. Brain development and DNA, seem to operate together one degree or another, to create what gender we supposedly feel we are. And I mean gender, not sex, because gender is a much more holistic pattern than sex. It also seems that you are woefully uneducated on the subject in the sense that you operate on a binary logic wherein you seem to think that a trans person will always transition to the opposite gender expression assigned at birth; that is not so. There are plenty of non-binary people who may feel comfortable living as the gender identity assigned to them but still feel that their internal bodily experience does not match their idea of who they are, like so: