no god/no booze?

[miss fortune]

believing in some sort of omnipotent god and putting the power into his/her hands is such a cop out (to me)... it's my own damned fault for thinking that I could behave irresponsibly with my family history and get away with it... I'm set on that point. Anyways, if there is a god I'm PISSED OFF at the asshole for making me the way I am in the first place

I don't care if that's worked for a lot of people, there are other people in my boat as well, and I can tell you for sure that listening to people talk about letting go of responsibly and putting themselves in the hands of a higher power raises my hackles like very little else... not exactly the recipe for success!

 

[Jaguar]

I can tell you for sure that listening to people talk about letting go of responsibility and putting themselves in the hands of a higher power raises my hackles like very little else... not exactly the recipe for success!

People actually say that shit? How convenient.

 

[miss fortune]

People actually say that shit? How convenient.

it's like saying that it's god's fault that you robbed a bank or picked up a prostitute or ate way too many cheeseburgers... people are fucking pathetic sometimes

 

[Tiger Owl]

"Anyways, if there is a god I'm PISSED OFF at the asshole for making me the way I am in the first place."

"Listening to people talk about letting go of responsibly and putting themselves in the hands of a higher power raises my hackles like very little else..."

Not at all trying to start a debate or bash your opinions but the two above statements bear a closer looking at.

As far as my knowledge of the meetings goes, it is not about putting responsibility into the hands of God but realizing that the burdens of guilt, shame, failure, anger, bad history, etc. are not burdens you need to carry and they will impede your recovery. You (hopefully) come to the realization that you were made for more than the sum of your failures/struggles and free of that weight you can begin the recovery process leaning on a loving, and infallible creator when you are weak instead of other weak people. The results speak for themselves. There are I am sure secular options. I hope you find one that works for you. Alcoholism runs strongly in my family as well, so does walking thin lines... bad combo.

 

[miss fortune]

Not at all trying to start a debate or bash your opinions but the two above statements bear a closer looking at.

As far as my knowledge of the meetings goes, it is not about putting responsibility into the hands of God but realizing that the burdens of guilt, shame, failure, anger, bad history, etc. are not burdens you need to carry and they will impede your recovery. You (hopefully) come to the realization that you were made for more than the sum of your failures/struggles and free of that weight you can begin the recovery process leaning on a loving, and infallible creator when you are weak instead of other weak people. The results speak for themselves. There are I am sure secular options. I hope you find one that works for you. Alcoholism runs strongly in my family as well, so does walking thin lines... bad combo.

I went to two meetings once (court mandated! ) and the interpretation of things that people seemed happiest with was the "let's just put all responsibility in god's hands" style of things... which I find to be irresponsible and completely unappealing. I never went back as soon as it wasn't required anymore. I will not go back to listen to people blame someone else for their problems when at some point they have to take some responsibility for themselves

 

[Tiger Owl]

I went to two meetings once (court mandated! ) and the interpretation of things that people seemed happiest with was the "let's just put all responsibility in god's hands" style of things... which I find to be irresponsible and completely unappealing. I never went back as soon as it wasn't required anymore. I will not go back to listen to people blame someone else for their problems when at some point they have to take some responsibility for themselves

Now that I agree with. I believe God made me but sure didn't make my decisions for me. Sorry you got the short end of the stick with the meetings, sounds like they may have been missing the point.

 

[miss fortune]

Now that I agree with. I believe God made me but sure didn't make my decisions for me. Sorry you got the short end of the stick with the meetings, sounds like they may have been missing the point.

I'm a non-christian in the bible belt... I'm used to that bullshit

and if someone is vain enough to think that a deity would care enough about humanity that they would micromanage every aspect of it, that's a pretty sad thing

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Question... Why do you think you drink so heavily? Is it a social crutch? Do you feel as though you have little to talk about or feel uneasy talking unless you're drinking? Is it to fill boredom and idle time?

For me personally, alcohol is certainly a social crutch. I can be extremely shy, and the more awkward I feel, the more I drink generally. So, in company I'm comfortable with, I hardly drink, if at all. I'm much less motivated to throw back drink after drink.

For many of my friends, especially the more extroverted variety, I feel like it's more of a boredom thing. They aren't as interested in things like hobbies, or have few interests that don't involve group gatherings and socialization. I'm thinking of one friend in particular, an ESTJ friend... and when she's bored, which happens often, she'll text or call me, and say we should meet for a drink at the bar. And there, we're also likely to run into other friends of ours, too. She's also a big fan of trivia night at the bar. This is her favorite form of filling in time. I personally think she could benefit from cultivating hobbies she enjoys, or finding other social activities-such as a book club or something of that nature.

Maybe you have some other reason for becoming dependent on alcohol?

 

[miss fortune]

I used to drink just for a chance to relax and turn my brain off... I got tired of listening to it (note: was in therapy at the time for PTSD related to other shit... it all goes hand in hand)... I quit though

 

[Beorn]

I'm sorry to read you're still having trouble finding an alternative.

I came across this today and thought of you. Apparently some atheists just grin and bear it. The author of that blog has also written a book about atheism, spirituality and recovering from alcoholism. Maybe you would find that helpful.

 

[ceecee]

believing in some sort of omnipotent god and putting the power into his/her hands is such a cop out (to me)... it's my own damned fault for thinking that I could behave irresponsibly with my family history and get away with it... I'm set on that point. Anyways, if there is a god I'm PISSED OFF at the asshole for making me the way I am in the first place

I don't care if that's worked for a lot of people, there are other people in my boat as well, and I can tell you for sure that listening to people talk about letting go of responsibly and putting themselves in the hands of a higher power raises my hackles like very little else... not exactly the recipe for success!

I agree, this....THIS

listening to people talk about letting go of responsibly and putting themselves in the hands of a higher power raises my hackles like very little else

makes me <thisclose> to what it must feel to lose your mind. Literally, I can't even think straight.

As far as my knowledge of the meetings goes, it is not about putting responsibility into the hands of God but realizing that the burdens of guilt, shame, failure, anger, bad history, etc. are not burdens you need to carry and they will impede your recovery.

What? They should feel guilty, they should feel the burden of every single thing they rained down on the people around them tenfold. Why in the fuck do they feel they even deserve to be absolved from a goddamn thing?

 

[Tiger Owl]

What? They should feel guilty, they should feel the burden of every single thing they rained down on the people around them tenfold. Why in the fuck do they feel they even deserve to be absolved from a goddamn thing?

They do feel that guilty, so overwhelmingly so, that beating the addiction that caused so many problems is almost impossible. They don't feel like they deserve anything, least of all forgiveness, that is a big part of what drives the drinking. It is not about them getting their golden ticket, getting cleaned up and saying F everybody else my life is great now. It is about taking responsibility for their actions and learning to make better actions so you don't repeat all the damage to others/self. And then, when they start getting their lives together they start trying to undo some of the damage.

 

[ceecee]

They do feel that guilty, so overwhelmingly so, that beating the addiction that caused so many problems is almost impossible. They don't feel like they deserve anything, least of all forgiveness, that is a big part of what drives the drinking. It is not about them getting their golden ticket, getting cleaned up and saying F everybody else my life is great now. It is about taking responsibility for their actions and learning to make better actions so you don't repeat all the damage to others/self. And then, when they start getting their lives together they start trying to undo some of the damage.

Good. They deserve it. I'm sorry but having experienced an ex-husband going through AA, his idea of making amends was to tell me that he's only human and I have to understand it and he put the responsibility for all the shit he did in MY lap to deal with. Then his sponsor told me basically the same thing. Not happening. Not happening ever.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I've been more or less sober for a little over 2 years now, after having actually gone through rehab. Quitting is hard... and I'm saying is, because I'm still having issues with it. I'd thought a while back that it might be possible to have a drink or two, and I succeeded a few times, but then I thought I would have a beer with lunch at work and ended up getting wasted instead and decided that perhaps I really CAN'T drink like normal people

recently I fucked up my dominant arm (lower arm, hand and a few fingers) and am having trouble doing quite a few things that I had previously done with ease without it hurting... combine that with stress from work and birthday season for all of my friends and I'm having trouble NOT thinking about drinking

I was thinking that perhaps attending meetings would be beneficial, but I'm sure as hell not attending anything where I'm going to get talked to about God and such However, I can't seem to find any secular options.

Any suggestions?

and no, I don't need to be lectured about an apparent need to find god or for my past bad decisions

About AA, and higher powers:
'Finding god' doesn't mean that you have to give up whatever you already believe; even if that is that there is no god. It's a metaphor. It simply mean that you acknowledge that there is a higher order to things, and that you can't determine what that order is. It's a realization that your own consciousness is not omniscient, that the answers you seek may in fact not be understandable within that consciousness, and that on that basis, you don't have to feel guilty or weak for not being able to understand or control the forces of the universe. This removal of shame frees you up to express compassion to yourself and to others, which is how you begin to heal.

 

[prplchknz]

I found sugar but I got yelled at for that. It's like fuck you! I can't drink, let me do this instead! rawr.

 

[miss fortune]

thanks for the reminder that I'm a terrible person

however, having someone tell you that it's not all your fault really doesn't work all that well for some of us- there's more effective ways to assuage one's guilt than to just be told that "god loves you, and you're not in charge of the universe!"

what I am in charge of is myself... I am in charge of myself... and I know that I've done some bad things and am a terrible person and such... I have recurring nightmares about relapsing into my previous lifestyle- I don't really need that either- just some nice practical tips, that shouldn't be too much to ask for should it?

 

[prplchknz]

wait what? I never called you a terrible person, I was just saying that substituting doesn't work because one) it's not alchol two)people suck and are health nazis

 

[Stanton Moore]

[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]
What part of the country do you live in?

 

[miss fortune]

I wasn't blaming you ms chickens (though coffee with a lot of sugar is an excellent substitute for ANYTHING!)

and [MENTION=6466]nebbykoo[/MENTION] I'm in the lower midwest