[NF] NF Honesty?

[Einnas]

I tend not to tell the truth to people who do not deserve it. This does not mean i am lying, just that i am not telling all there is to it.. i like it that way.

 

[Arclight]

Hmm... I'm not up to date with what's going on in this thread, but just have to tell you that I've not seen this kind of behavior in any relatively healthy representative of any type. The closer you are to someone the less there is reason to lie since you are accepted more as a person with flaws...

And I suppose the more you have to lose?

It's not me BTW.. I have read the whole thread. There is a point to my posts and it's to cut the people closest to you some slack for doing the same things you do.
Hold the people you love to less harsh standard, for they mirror you.

 

[nolla]

And I suppose the more you have to lose?

In a way you lose it if you don't trust it...

It's not me BTW.. I have read the whole thread. There is a point to my posts and it's to cut the people closest to you some slack for doing the same things you do.
Hold the people you love to less harsh standard, for they mirror you.

Well, have to scan it through when I got time. I agree that if you are to lie to someone, you should expect the same from them.

 

[HotpinkHeatwave]

If I don't know you, I probably don't give a shit about your feelings. Especially if you're an asshole. If so, prepare to be dropped.

If I know you, I may care about how you feel. I may choose my words wisely. It depends on how you act/I view you.

If I care about you, I most likely care about how you feel. I will chose my words wisely (unless you really need to hear the truth), and I will try to make you feel like you're on top of the world. Because... I care about you, which is a rare thing, and you deserve it.

Edit: How you treat me is also a factor.

People I don't know that (like I said) who are assholes, prepare to be dropped. People I know who are assholes, prepare to recieve some nasty words in return. People I care about who can be assholes (I never care about someone who is always an asshole, they can fuck off), prepare to be ignored.

 

[Razvan]

Would you lie to your "soul mate"?.. Because this is kind of my point.. There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.


You seem to be saying that as long as this person plays exactly by your rules you will refrain from being dishonest with them.

Maybe they have "lot's of reasons" for lying as well??.

My point.. the people you love should be the ones who you understand the most.. You have reasons, so do they.. so why the double standard?

You forgive the person who doesn't matter , and hold the person who does to a standard that you yourself are not willing to commit to.

You know there are two Typology books I read That explain this very behavior.

Why would I lie, well, I wouldn't , I like relationships based on honesty. You must have misunderstood something I said. I ment to say that if I will have nothing to fear and I will feel accepted as I am, with flaws and all, with whatever I like to do and all, I will have no reason to lie to anybody, especially to my special one. However, this is not always true... I wouldn't really be mad if I was lied to, unless it was about something important. I am very tolerant by nature with people, so it would kind of suck if I did not feel that those special people in my life trust me. I have toned down my critics a lot in the past, because I knew it would hurt feelings and tried to put whatever bothered me in a nice form, because of this : I did not want people to be afraid to be honest with me. I'm trying to find a concrete example...but not sure I can find one. Oh, here are some, my ex used to be pretty jealous and posesive, I would omit mentioning stopping by to see a friend or even my family some times, or talking with people on the internet, or whatever thought she would have a problem with. On the other hand, I did not have a problem with that, her going to do he exact thing, although she didn't actually do it too often. I don't think it was very healthy for our relationship, but I could not find any solution for this, talking it out didn't always work.

Oh and you could say I forgive easily people who don't matter, but that's actually because I don't care as much so it's easier to forgive. I expect more from someone special, I expect them to know they can trust me and have faith in me and be sincere and I will do my best to understand. Try that first with me, before lying.

Seriously, I don't think I have had double standards...

 

[Rachelinpa]

hmm... i would like to say i never lie, but i think sometimes i sort of don't say anything to preserve harmony... which some may argue is deceitful. i am frequently in positions where an SF will ask me to justify something for her, and i am always at a loss for words... i don't agree with what she is saying, but i don't always know whether it is my place to really defend the person or thing she is gossiping about... so i stay silent. i guess maybe that isn't lying, but it's not something i usually end up feeling good about later.

 

[Arclight]

I haven't misunderstood anything..

If you think or believe you don't lie then you are not human or you are delusional.

This is not open debate or interpretation.

Everybody lies, even you.

Quick.. A woman you respect and like comes up to you and says "isn't my baby gorgeous?"
You think the baby is actually the ugliest baby you have ever seen.
Do you tell her this?

I rest my case.

You can justify your answer a 100 times. That doesn't change it from being a lie.

P.S. I used a nice fluffy example.

 

[Razvan]

I haven't misunderstood anything..

If you think or believe you don't lie then you are not human or you are delusional.

This is not open debate or interpretation.

Everybody lies, even you.

Well, now I know you must have misunderstood me. I NEVER said I don't lie. Seriously, I don't remember saying that. I said I wouldn't lie, unless I had to. I have close relationships with people and I did not have to lie to them about a thing. The acceptance is high enough so I feel I can be myself with them and they accept me for who I am. It's only true for a few people though.

Quick.. A woman you respect and like comes up to you and says "isn't my baby gorgeous?"
You think the baby is actually the ugliest baby you have ever seen.
Do you tell her this?

I rest my case.

You can justify your answer a 100 times. That doesn't change it from being a lie.

P.S. I used a nice fluffy example.

I'd say "yeah, he's preatty". I don't think that would be a lie, I find every human being beautiful, even if physically ugly. I only find ugly those who are deep down inside ugly. I'm a Perceiver and an Intuitive, I don't get stuck in details, I can see the big picture and I doesn't have to fit a specific pattern for me to consider it in a way or another. If it would be a lie or not, well, for me it will not be a lie because I would believe that. Here's an example, I saw a men in a wheelchair, it was a story posted in a newspaer about how he was able to live his life after the accident, get a job, fight with people not wanting to hire him because of that, succeding and so on. I found the story and the person very beautiful, even if maybe he wasn't that physically attractive.

Ok, if she would be specific about it, I don't know what I would do, I would probably lie, maybe I will, maybe I won't, it's hard to say. But I am not throwing away the possibility of doing it, although, I think both altenatives would pose advantages and disadvanteges.

 

[Sioul]

I'm very good at lying, and I spot it easily when others are lying. I am very good at deceit and manipulation. It was a behavior I learned because I had to hide family issues from a very young age. I now strive to live a lifestyle that isn't centered around lies and manipulation.

I hate consistent dishonesty, but don't mind occasional dishonesty. As far as who I am, I am an open book. I'm very honest, and frank, queen of TMI. I resent it if someone implies I'm insincere. I lied to myself and others for a lot of years about who I was and what I wanted. So now it is extremely important for me to be honest with myself and others and not to pretend for societal standards. That is the form of honesty that is important to me.


I feel like I am one of the most honest people I've ever met...

Do I think lying is always wrong... no.

I won't make a rule out of it.

I can relate to almost everything that you said. When I was younger, I would lie alot. Actually lets correct that, I would often "exaggerate". I think part of being an ENFP is wanting to be constantly liked, we want to constantly engage people, and so when you feel like something you say might not keep that interest, it's not uncommon for an ENFP to slightly exagerate the story to make it more interesting?

As I've grown, I've learned that this is not the type of person I want to be and in the last few years, have been really successful at just being myself. People are attracted to our enthusiasm and energy just the way you are, you don't need to pretend to be someone your not.

But to answer the question, I as an ENFP, like angelhair am quite a capable liar and am equally as good as spotting a liar, because I know all the scenarios and words people use when they are put on the spot.

But I don't really do it much anymore.

 

[Tabula]

I'm an excellent liar, if and when I want to be--something that I'm not especially proud of, but it doesn't make it any less true. A side-effect of which, is always knowing when others are lying and/or exaggerating. It's actually sort of irritating. In some cases, I'd rather just not know.

In the past, I've told some real doozies, and got away with all but one, which I'm extremely grateful for. Had I not, I'm sure I would not have learned my lesson before getting myself into some really horrible situation. Even while I was making things up, it was never with the intention of hurting anyone (though, incidentally, it did end up doing just that, by way of a breach of trust [understandably so.]) I did it out of a want to seem more interesting than I am.

I don't do that anymore. But now, knowing what I've done, I'm in constant [over]compensation mode-- being brutally honest where the situation really doesn't call for it. I avoid all contact because I don't really like the person I seem to be--nor have a complete sense of who I am--so I allow others full, honest access to my faults before they really get a chance to make a judgement about me for themselves. Well, that, and I really don't feel the need for any sort of relationship or connection with other people anymore.

However, with regards to lying to oneself, I just can't. I'm ALWAYS questioning my real motives and thinking that I'm still somehow deceiving myself. Even when I would make things up, it was always because I knew that truly, I'm a really boring, self-absorbed person. I've made a habit of spending hours upon hours thinking about possible reasons for X and Y, and what that suggests about my true character. It's tiring and I end up more confused, overwhelmed by seemingly infinite possibilites and interpretations, separated by a lost sense of inhabiting myself, and extremely frustrated with the fact that there is no sure-fire way to definitively know for certain. Still, I can't turn it off. :steam:

If someone were to call me dishonest, I'd be more interested in why and about what than for the fact that they did. It'd probably sting a bit, given that I'm making such an effort to be honest, but I'd put that aside in favor of trying to incorporate better strategies for effectively conveying honesty to others (provided theirs is a valid objection of course.)

 

[Froody Blue Gem]

I'm not brutally honest in the least bit, and will go out of my way to beat about the bush if I think someone's feelings will get hurt. There are times, I admit I'm not completely honest with myself though. Sometimes when there's a hard truth, or if there's a situation I'm avoiding, I think unrealistic positive thoughts, or push it to the back of my mind. I will sometimes keep things from people, and am a private person, but I don't have the intention of deceiving or being malicious.

There are occasions when I'm in a pinch and may resort to dishonesty but this is rare. Honest in general, I would say so and am a terrible liar. I find trust to be an important thing and in order for that, honesty goes hand in hand, and someone doesn't have to be rude or brutal in order to be honest and trustworthy imo. Trust has to be built and earned and it is a two way street. It's very unsettling for me when people accuse me of lying, especially when I'm not. Though there are certain people who think those things must go hand-in-hand or else, there is no honesty.

 

[Dan the INFP man]

I’d say at times I’m brutally honest, though that’s likely atypical for an INFP. In my job sometimes I trend more toward INTP so facts and data are behind that mindset.

One of things that really frustrates me are people who bend the truth and lie in order to tell their bosses and other “important” people what they want to hear, and paint a rosier picture than what is reality.

My knowledge combined with my personality allows me to see through that. INFP’s are notorious for being good BS detectors. Management doesn’t share that trait, so they buy it and what that means essentially is that dishonest people are rewarded for their dishonesty.

When I see people treated poorly for simply stating the facts of the situation, that really ticks me off. Same people in that case want to shoot the messenger when they may have zero fault in what went wrong.

It’s sad but often true, in business, in government, and all over society, the liars get rewarded.

 

[Ace_]

Most NFs I've encountered are not brutally honest, but they are decent people. Unlike some NTs, most NFs have "tact". They will skew the truth often to make people feel good. But they might also use those powers for their personal gain.

 

[Population: 1]

I don’t lie to wreak havoc, intentionally harm someone, or to manipulate a situation to my advantage. I am garbage at lying unless it is to spare someone unnecessary pain. I try to be honest but tactful when possible. However, if someone has pissed me off, I will tell them exactly what I think of their behavior and will tear them a new one (I should clarify that I mean verbally tear them a new one, I don’t go around starting physical altercations).

(I just dropped a ‘m because I typed I’m instead of I. Happy? You damned nosy edit system.)

 

[Dan the INFP man]

I don’t lie to wreak havoc, intentionally harm someone, or to manipulate a situation to my advantage. I am garbage at lying unless it is to spare someone unnecessary pain. I do try to be honest but tactful when possible. However, if someone has pissed me off, I will tell them exactly what I think of their behavior and will tear them a new one.

Same. It doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve let a few people have it when they had done something I (or more specifically someone else) found unacceptable, and a few others I sternly warned and they backed off.

 

[Population: 1]

Same. It doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve let a few people have it when they had done something I (or more specifically someone else) found unacceptable, and a few others I sternly warned and they backed off.

Yes it’s not commonplace and it’s something I’ve grown more accustomed to as I’ve grown older. For me it’s usually after someone has attempted to manipulate a situation or person subtly or has tried throwing their weight around blatantly.

 

[Earl Grey]

I don't quite understand how 'straight shooter honesty' seems to be a trait more commonly attributed to Ts (not that that is what OP is doing), when say, the Fi function is all about authenticity. How does that work?

As for brutal honesty, I heard somewhere that people advocating for 'brutal' honesty is really going for the brutality more than the honesty. Facts are facts and truth are truth no matter how you package it up, it's just that some methods of delivery are more efficient than the others.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In my experience they are generally honest, until something big and bad comes along. Since in that case they will probably either sweep it under the rug or find a way to get through this as subtly as possible.

 

[Jaguar]

there is very little use or need for lies.

A woman once said to me, "I will lie to someone's face to avoid conflict." If the need to avoid conflict is that strong, lying does indeed have a purpose. The only positive I found in her statement was that she was conscious of her behavior and knew exactly why she was doing it. I forgot - that was a woman who actually took the MBTI and came out INTJ. I still don't buy the letter T in her result.

 

[Zhaylin]

I don't remember what, exactly, I read to give me this idea, but I tend to think of myself as an Elf when it comes to the truth (at times).
Example: Husband asks if I bought myself anything to eat when I picked up his dinner. I reply. "Yes, I got some baconator fries." But I omit the fact that I also bought a bacon cheese burger and got a 64 ounce frozen Coke as well. I omit it because I don't want to hear him call me fat or make some other jab that always comes after I'm completely honest.
I'll use truth in the same fashion for other things, as well, if an outcome would cause too much conflict or hurt another person.

For outright lies, though? Nah. I always tattle on myself lol. "Did you clean the room?" Someone might ask. "Yep... no, I'm lying, I didn't do squat today."

I prefer to be a straight shooter, though. It's too much effort to remember what was omitted and to whom.