[NF] NF Honesty?

[Devil Flamingo]

This is basically a question for everyone, but I'm particularly interested to know if any ENFPs or INFPs are like this too.

Basically, are you an honest person? Not necessarily brutally honest, but pretty much inherently honest? And does it bug you if you're accused of being otherwise?

XD When it comes to honesty, all I gotta say is this: though I'm normally harmless and sunny, if you accuse me of being dishonest or assume that I'm lying because "everyone does", you WILL push one of my few red buttons, and I WILL come at you like a wild turkey on steroids and metaphorically scratch your eyes out. I cannot STAND to be thought of as insincere or dishonest, and I actually strive to be as frank and true to myself as much as possible. If I lie, it's either because I honestly believe that I'm telling the truth, or because I'm just trollin' the person to get a reaction out of them, but in the case of the latter I will drop a million and one hints to let the other person or group of people know that I'm not being serious.

I do not lie because:

i) I'm not good at it. I'm quite skilled at being honest (if lying is a skill, can honesty be one too?) but I'm a very poor liar. XD It's too much work; I find that telling the truth is so much easier than working up a lie and sticking to it.

ii) There is very little use or need for lies. If someone asks me about something or someone that I do not wish to discuss and/or that I do not think is any of their business, I will change the topic, or else tell the minimum truth, but I will not lie. I just won't... unless a situation requires me to lie because telling the truth would negatively affect or even harm someone I love or care about (e.g. a gang of criminals ask me where my brother is; so I lie without even thinking about it, because nothing good can come from telling the truth).

iii) People say the truth hurts, but I think that lies hurt more. Furthermore, I believe the truth shouldn't hurt; people should just accept things as they come and do their best. If a certain outfit does not look good on you, I'm not going to lie to you about it; it's ridiculous to do so. I don't believe in the whole "not hurt someone's feelings" argument, because in lying to them you might make them believe things that aren't true, and ultimately that will hurt more. If the fucking dress doesn't look good on you, then get one that does, and if it's a weight problem (i.e. you are too big for the dress, or the dress is too big for you), then address it and do something it about it, even if you have to ask others for help. No good will come out of making yourself or others believe things that you know to be false.


Honestly, I feel so strongly about this that (odd as it might sound) sometimes I wish I committed a crime (something silly, like dropping condoms filled with water on top of the heads of the political idiots on Parliament Hill) just so I could plead GUILTY about it; I'm so sick and tired of seeing courtroom scenarios on TV where people again and again and again pleade NOT GUILTY even though they know what they did is wrong. It's like... why can't you accept and own up to what you did? If you're gonna do something bad, or at least against the law, at least have the fucking balls to own up.


...This whole thing came up because I went to the money office shit of my uni today and explained the situation to the bitch who was handling my student loan about how I'm gonna need more money because my current loan doesn't cover my jan-april student fees, and she was nice about it but... I got the feeling that she thought I was BSing or not being honest, which pisses me off, because, like, BITCH, IF I HAD TWO FUCKING THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST LAYING AROUND FOR NO REASON DO YOU THINK I WOULD BE GETTING MY ASS IN DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE? AND YES, I HAVE A JOB... AT MCDONALD'S. WHAT PART OF FLIPPIN' BURGERS AND MINIMUM WAGE ARE YOU CONFUSED ABOUT? DON'T MAKE ME SLAP YOU.

/unnecessary, no1curr, etc.

But yes, accuse me of being a liar, and I'mma go at chu liek dis:

 

[Phantonym]

Basically, are you an honest person?

Yes, I would like to believe so. But who knows, maybe I'm lying to myself.

 

[angelhair45]

I'm very good at lying, and I spot it easily when others are lying. I am very good at deceit and manipulation. It was a behavior I learned because I had to hide family issues from a very young age. I now strive to live a lifestyle that isn't centered around lies and manipulation.

I hate consistent dishonesty, but don't mind occasional dishonesty. As far as who I am, I am an open book. I'm very honest, and frank, queen of TMI. I resent it if someone implies I'm insincere. I lied to myself and others for a lot of years about who I was and what I wanted. So now it is extremely important for me to be honest with myself and others and not to pretend for societal standards. That is the form of honesty that is important to me.


I feel like I am one of the most honest people I've ever met...

Do I think lying is always wrong... no.

I won't make a rule out of it.

 

[KLessard]

I know integrity is a top priority for an ENFP friend of mine. She even goes to weird extremes to be honest "with herself."

It is very important to me too. But since self-doubt is a common INFJ thing, I will say like SKY is BLUE! and maybe I am lying to myself sometimes? I know I have in the past, but it seems to me that at the moment, I really meant it. I guess you can be sincerely mistaken or blinded.

I don't clearly remember having been accused of insincerity.

Also, I will be very insulted if you show me kindness and you don't mean it.

 

[Halla74]

In my experience with people thus far, ranging from friends to relatives, of types INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, and ENFP...

INFJ and INFP tend to be more honest in the sense of being literal and divulging information

ENFJ and ENFP are also honest but not divulge information so easily, and might have greater than average potential for operating on multiple motives...

But that's just the folks I know, and know the MBTI type of (all tested, no assumptions from me!)

 

[Rebe]

Well, to your situation above, she doesn't know you and so, she can only be cautious. That wasn't her fault. The world is full of such pathetic liars that one can't just automatically pick you out to be genuine and truthful. Apparently it's rare to have ethics in this world.

I am the same way, but just with people who I know knows me better than that.

When I was about eleven and on vacation with my then best friend, we went to a store and she somehow thought I took a piece of candy and put it in my bag. She accused me of this and I didn't speak with her for an hour. I was so, so angry. As an introvert, I tend to just go silent more often than become loud. Though I can swing both ways. To her, it was a simple, no, I didn't take it. To me, it was a WHAT! WHO DO YOU THINK I AM. WHY WOULD I STEAL A PIECE OF CANDY? WHAT KIND OF PATHETIC LOSER DO YOU THINK I AM TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

I am honest in that I feel bad even taking a dollar off a floor and not be able to return it to the owner.

Today at work the boss accused me of doing something I didn't do. One of our customers blatantly lied to him about something and I could sense that he didn't believe me. And that he wasn't on my side. And we have worked together for countless hours and gotten to know each other so I was deeply offended that he'd think I'd do something like that and also believe a stranger more than someone who he's known for a greater amount of time. I am so pissed I want to give that psychotic bitch a piece of my mind. But that'd hurt my job, which I need so perhaps I should let this slide unless I got some clever idea of seeking revenge. I am definitely angry about this and I don't want to let it just slide. That bitch did it with 100% purpose, not by accident or by misunderstanding or being dramatic.

People lie, I lie, mostly to protect myself, but not to steal or be malicious or cause other people trouble.

 

[You]

Liars make me laugh.

 

[Kibou-chan]

This is one of those tricky Fi topics (like most of them XD). Basically, for the NFP, how he or she feels about lying will depend on whether or not he or she has incorporated the "lying" as one of his or her Fi no-nos. Obviously, Devil Flamingo, you have, and you have plenty of reasons you can and have listed for why you hate lying and find it unnecessary. I think this is probably the case for most NFPs, but I can't say that EVERY Fi-dom or -aux feels the same way, as I'm sure that's not true.

I certainly agree with pretty much everything you listed. I try to avoid lying as much as possible. Like you, I don't see the need for it (telling the truth and being uncomfortable for a few moments feels much better than lying and being uncomfortable with your conscience for days, weeks or months), but like angelhair45, there were some times in my past that I was forced to for my own self-preservation. But 95% of the time I think there's absolutely no excuse for it and I'd much rather tell the truth and suffer the consequences (or just not say anything at all... That's a good tactic every so often XD). Or, even better: Don't do anything you'd be ashamed to tell others about! For Fi-doms this isn't such a hard way to live... It's pretty much how we live our whole lives. Even if we're doing something socially "wrong," as long as we can reconcile it with our Fi it seems perfectly right to us, so there are usually not many qualms with telling others about it. At least, this is my experience of it.

 

[Devil Flamingo]

@Rebe:

XD I know, I am being irrational. But I seriously expect people to somehow ~magically~ know that in a world of liars and cheaters, I am one who does not resort to such methods and therefore I'm not lying. I know it's silly but I cannot help it. And if it's somebody who SHOULD know me better than that, I get worse and erupt like a fucking volcano, lol.

Also, I think you should rip the bitch a new one. Or else find a way to clean up your reputation; I feel you, because recently at my work a 100 dollars or whatever went missing, and I wasn't accused, but I did tell one of the managers (whom I'm friends with) that nobody better accuse me of stealing shit or else BITCHES WILL BE SLAPPED.


But anyway, good to see y'all can relate.

 

[Little Linguist]

Basically, I'm always honest because:

1. I suck at lying.
2. Lying bites you on the ass later anyway, so it's a bad strategy.
3. It's just wrong.
4. It's stupid and cowardly.
5. It doesn't solve anything.
6. It isn't real.
7. It blows and hurts.
8. Negative energy always comes back at you.
9. It gives other people ammo against you.
10. It destroys trust, the basis of any kind of relationship.

Of course, sometimes I HIDE parts of myself that I'm not 'ready' to evaluate or work on quite yet, and get quite defensive (like RAWRRRRRRRRRR attack kitty defensive) if you push me before I'm ready to say something.

But I won't lie. I might chew you up and spit you out for pushing me. But I won't lie.

 

[Kibou-chan]

Also, I think you should rip the bitch a new one. Or else find a way to clean up your reputation; I feel you, because recently at my work a 100 dollars or whatever went missing, and I wasn't accused, but I did tell one of the managers (whom I'm friends with) that nobody better accuse me of stealing shit or else BITCHES WILL BE SLAPPED.

A similar situation happened to me at work once, except kind of the opposite in the end. I worked as a cashier at a restaurant, and the drawer I was using the night before was short something like $40. So the manager called me into her office to ask me what happened, and she was VERY clear in telling me that she was not accusing me of taking it. In her words, it would be "complete bullshit" to accuse me of such a thing, and then she went on for about a minute and half about how she knows I would never, ever steal and anyone who would accuse me of that is crazy. But she had to ask me if I knew what could have happened to the money, like perhaps some bills were stuck to one another when I gave a customer change, or one of the other cashiers could have gotten into my register. I was honored that my Fi was so apparent.

 

[angell_m]

This

Basically, I'm always honest because:

2. Lying bites you on the ass later
10. It destroys trust

I can withhold the truth to avoid complications and keep secrets safe, but if asked I have to tell the truth. I'll lie to the police though.

 

[Little Linguist]

Okayyyyyyyyyy in extreme situations I might lie - but not to my loved one. Only to protect my family if need be. But that's different.

I'd prefer simply to be silent, though.

 

[Eckhart]

In some ways I am probably more honest than others, but sometimes I will lie too. Mostly though when someone bugs me out because he wants something and doesn't accept a no and just keeps on annoying me. Then I will say "ok" but won't do it sometimes. Not nice, no, but it is what the other person apparently wants.

Then I lied sometimes because it is something what would make me feel very umcomfortable if answered truthfully. But I think I am doing it less often nowadays. And probably that is also mostly when people cannot accept a "no".

 

[angelhair45]

I don't think not lying=honesty. I lived 10 years of life where I didn't out right lie. I was a fundamental christian who refused to VERBALLY lie about the most minor details. I was the most dishonest person at that time, because my life was a sham. So to me you can go through live never uttering a lie, but still be dishonest... I pride myself more in being honest than "not lying".

 

[nolla]

I am bad at lying. Mostly because it makes me feel like shit and people notice that. This means lying to people I care about. It is almost impossible for me, unless it is something that doesn't matter at all...

But I can lie to unknown people or people I don't like that much, when I think they shouldn't be asking the question in the first place. I don't feel like I am obliged to tell the truth about me to the phone salesman or such. I don't feel bad telling them I am busy, instead of saying that I hate it when someone I don't know calls me and tries to sell something. Usually I do keep in the truth, though... I don't like lying.

I do keep other people's secrets and not tell the whole truth if not pressured.

I don't think not lying=honesty. I lived 10 years of life where I didn't out right lie. I was a fundamental christian who refused to VERBALLY lie about the most minor details. I was the most dishonest person at that time, because my life was a sham. So to me you can go through live never uttering a lie, but still be dishonest... I pride myself more in being honest than "not lying".

Very good point!

 

[kyuuei]

Anyone coming to the conclusion that I am a liar may very well be correct.

It all depends on where your moralities lie. I lie to strangers all the time, and never think twice of it. (Examples include: I cannot attend a school function because of x, I write my friend's names and numbers down as my supervisors of resumes, I shouldn't be charged an overdraft fee because of y, etc.) These sort of things I care little for, they don't conflict with my moralities. I have no qualms lying my way out of a speeding ticket.

However, when it comes to things near and dear to my heart, I cannot lie about them. I go to stupid lengths to ensure I am not lying, or that I couldn't be perceived as lying.

People accusing me of lying through my actions is what upsets me more than anything else. Communication always breaks down, it's understandable.. But to give an example of what I mean: I had a date that I was considering actually getting into a relationship with. A group of 'friends' were fueling the rumor mill, and soon it got around that I may have been talking to another man.. and instead of approaching me and asking me what happened, he just believed these rumors. Then he was confused when I was furious at him and called our brief dating life off entirely.

The point was, he thought I was lying to him by not telling him I was involved with someone else. He found out the truth far too late to salvage anything we had built up. When it comes to my friends or relationships, I will always come forward and say something. My heart can't handle anything less.

The few times in my life I ever tried to withhold information, they have never left me, and will hold my heart like little weights of shame to remind me why I am honest.

 

[garbage]

echoing a lot of what people said here

When the stakes are insanely low, it's hard for me to care. Sometimes, for example, I'd rather not be probed into sharing particular details to absolute strangers, which would be impossible to avoid if I told the truth instead of a white lie. A mentality of "It's not your business." won't provide me with good customer service, but a mentality of politeness will.

The language of politeness is one huge white lie, anyway. "Do you want me to do such-and-such?" "No, I don't.. you don't have to bother.."

I don't protect my ego with lies, even though sometimes that would be the route with fewer consequences to me. When the stakes are high, I definitely attempt to avoid it.

For some reason, I never get accused of lying, and my friends tell me that I have a lot of integrity. Maybe because they're not the targets of white lies. In actuality, I pull off lies quite well

I can use it as a tool for others' benefit, too. I helped someone I know dearly lie about something huge, helping present a plausible story with every possible angle covered. But it helped this particular person immensely, and that's what mattered to me.

go go personal integrity

YOU ARE SO DUMB

this was literally about ten minutes down the road from me

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

I am bad at lying. Mostly because it makes me feel like shit and people notice that. This means lying to people I care about. It is almost impossible for me, unless it is something that doesn't matter at all...

But I can lie to unknown people or people I don't like that much, when I think they shouldn't be asking the question in the first place. I don't feel like I am obliged to tell the truth about me to the phone salesman or such. I don't feel bad telling them I am busy, instead of saying that I hate it when someone I don't know calls me and tries to sell something. Usually I do keep in the truth, though... I don't like lying.

I do keep other people's secrets and not tell the whole truth if not pressured.

All the bolded.

I will sugar-coat something that might come off as "bad", or I might try to spin it in a positive way but it would still be an honest statement. But to outright just lie to someone, I can't do that to someone I care about.

 

[Little Linguist]

Oh, I assumed we were talking about people who mattered.

People I don't know or who I don't care about, fuck 'em.