Metric Time

[Athenian200]

A Guide To Metric Time

What do you think about the idea of Metric time?

I remember I've always wondered why the day is divided into 24 periods, and why there are 60 minutes in an hour, and sixty seconds in a minute. I mean, that's always thrown me off... my brain keeps thinking there should be 100 minutes, not 60, and it's really annoying to have to think about it. It's that way in most other processes involving numbers.

Another thing that always bothered me was the week. I mean, the 7-day unit seems rather arbitrary. Plus, I've always had trouble remember the order of the days and distance between them, and simply labeling them in a way that indicates their order would resolve this easily. Naturally, a 10-day week would also seem to make more sense.

We really don't need a replacement for the month. That one also just serves to throw people off... I mean, we could easily just count by the number of days within the year, rather than dividing them into months. That always throws off my sense of how far away a date is, when I'm not sure how long the month I'm currently in is, or being able to think to myself, "Oh, that's not till next month," when it's really only three days away.

The only units of time that really seem to make sense are the day and the year... the rest seem a bit arbitrary.

The best part of metricizing time, is that we could probably get the date to a point where we could simply express the current time and date as a single numeric value (yes, like Stardates on Star Trek), emphasizing the important number by moving the decimal point, rather than expressing a series of separated number values that have to be processed sequentially to get a sense of what time is being described.

I know that this is never going to happen because people would focus on what they were losing and how much it would take to change their habits (I mean, heck, people in the U.S. won't even use Metric Measurements over the old ones), etc... but still, it's nice to dream.

What do you think? Do you ever fantasize about a perfect world where people use Metric Time rather than cumbersome dates?

 

[JocktheMotie]

The logistics of instituting this change would destroy the world, and it doesn't really seem to corroborate with celestial events, which were the basis for our calendar system of days and months in the first place [it might, I admit I skimmed.]

But, I'm all for it. It gives me a whole new set of excuses for being late to things.

 

[jenocyde]

I skimmed also. It doesn't bother me either way - I can get used to anything.

The month is based on the moon cycle.

 

[Athenian200]

The logistics of instituting this change would destroy the world, and it doesn't really seem to corroborate with celestial events, which were the basis for our calendar system of days and months in the first place [it might, I admit I skimmed.]

But, I'm all for it. It gives me a whole new set of excuses for being late to things.

Eh, I was mostly thinking about time divisions within the day, rather than to the larger calender. The months don't bother me that much, it's only the week that I think needs to be refined. There's not really any good reason to mess with the month and year, now that I think about it.

I skimmed also. It doesn't bother me either way - I can get used to anything.

The month is based on the moon cycle.

Yeah, I just thought of that. The month makes sense if you pay attention to the moon cycle. I guess the only one I still think should be changed are the units of week and lower, excepting the day.

So, the month, day, and year are based on celestial events, good point. But the others (hours, minutes, weeks) are still quite arbitrary. The week is probably the worst offender, IMO.

 

[jenocyde]

Eh, I was mostly thinking about time divisions within the day, rather than to the larger calender. The months don't bother me that much, it's only the week that I think needs to be refined. There's not really any good reason to mess with the month and year, now that I think about it.



Yeah, I just thought of that. The month makes sense if you pay attention to the moon cycle. I guess the only one I still think should be changed are the units of week and lower, excepting the day.

So, the month, day, and year are based on celestial events, good point. But the others (hours, minutes, weeks) are still quite arbitrary. The week is probably the worst offender, IMO.

Well, there are 12 lunar cycles in a year, which accounts for the 12 months. So that's how we arrived at the base 12 system.

Hours lengthened and shortened with the season - longer in the summer, shorter in the winter. Without going into too much history, there were 12 hours of daylight and 12 of night, but of unequal length. This had to do with 36 stars that seemed to segment the sky at equal intervals. Then 60 was adopted for reasons no one can explain, but it makes fractions easy because it's divisible by 1-6 and 10, 12 and 15.

The 7 day week came from the Torah/Bible. And on the 7th day, He rested... So it seems that this one would be the hardest to change.

 

[Athenian200]

Well, there are 12 lunar cycles in a year, which accounts for the 12 months. So that's how we arrived at the base 12 system.

Hours lengthened and shortened with the season - longer in the summer, shorter in the winter. Without going into too much history, there were 12 hours of daylight and 12 of night, but of unequal length. This had to do with 36 stars that seemed to segment the sky at equal intervals. Then 60 was adopted for reasons no one can explain, but it makes fractions easy because it's divisible by 1-6 and 10, 12 and 15.

That does explain why they did it. Although that doesn't explain why we're still doing it. Oh, well.

The 7 day week came from the Torah/Bible. And on the 7th day, He rested... So it seems that this one would be the hardest to change.

You see, that's actually another reason it should be changed or removed from the standard calender. I actually find it mildly offensive that I have religion thrown in my face every time someone talks about what day it is. So it's not only arbitrary, poorly labeled, and difficult to keep track of, it's rather offensive to people who don't share the religion of the people who invented it. It's one thing for religious people to want it, but why should the rest of us be subjected to it when we're trying to figure out when something happens?

Hmm... everything else can be justified based on how people had to tell time in the past, in my mind, but I firmly believe that the week is a truly awful unit of time.

 

[Nonsensical]

I was just thinking yesterday how it would be cool if I started using the Metric Time just for shits. As one would probably expect, I did poorly at keeping it up.

I think it would be a good change opace. There wouldn't really be any logical reason to do so, but I think it would be really cool.

 

[BlueScreen]

I tried this in 2000. Along with reformed calendars etc. And an attempt at time standardisation outside Earth. What I found was similar to what has been said, that most of what we have was made that way for a reason.

We do need a time system that is planet independent once we become more space faring though.

On the why are we still doing it, because digital time is far less beautiful and far more unintuitive. And it's segments in no way relate to anything measurable in our surroundings.

 

[Athenian200]

I tried this in 2000. Along with reformed calendars etc. And an attempt at time standardisation outside Earth. What I found was similar to what has been said, that most of what we have was made that way for a reason.

We do need a time system that is planet independent once we become more space faring though.

On the why are we still doing it, because digital time is far less beautiful and far more unintuitive. And it's segments in no way relate to anything measurable in our surroundings.

Great, so our time measurement system is an ART FORM rather than the best tool for the job? Intuitive? I really don't see that, to me it's the current time system that seems "unintuitive."

And of course you're going to end up going back to the normal system eventually... because it's impractical to continually convert it from what other people are using. As long as other people use it, there's no point in trying to use a different system yourself. Things just don't work that way.

Sigh. The fact that "there's A reason" (regardless of whether it's still a very good reason) appears to be enough justification for most people to keep doing things they way they've been doing them rather than try to improve. For instance... I can't imagine a society that used digital/metric time would ever decide to switch to what we use now. But people sure do want to cling to it regardless. And you know why? They have no vision.

Interestingly, I recently found that the time system I'm thinking of isn't actually new. Apparently during the French revolution, almost exactly the same time system as the one I'm thinking of was implemented, though it never caught on.

The only justification I can usually get is "well, it may work better, but people don't like it." Why do people have to like such... ANNOYING things, anyway?

 

[jenocyde]

Sigh. The fact that "there's A reason" (regardless of whether it's still a very good reason) appears to be enough justification for most people to keep doing things they way they've been doing them rather than try to improve. For instance... I can't imagine a society that used digital/metric time would ever decide to switch to what we use now. But people sure do want to cling to it regardless. And you know why? They have no vision.

Yeah, but changing something just for the point of changing it is also pointless. But I don't mind the change, like I said, I could get used to anything... I'm not clinging to anything, I just don't care either way.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Tis metric method seems too stale too me.

I kind of enjoy having to look on my watch in order to check what date it is without having it imprinted as a counter in my brain.

 

[Athenian200]

Tis metric method seems too stale too me.

I kind of enjoy having to look on my watch in order to check what date it is without having it imprinted as a counter in my brain.

Yep, that seems to be general consensus...

People appreciate extremely annoying, poorly designed, yet aesthetically appealing things above all else.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Yep, that seems to be general consensus...

People appreciate extremely annoying, poorly designed, yet aesthetically appealing things above all else.

P's most definatly I would assume.

Not everything has to fit through a needles eye all the time.

I don't think I'd mind either in the long run by the way. But I do not see any reason for change either.

 

[Feops]

I suppose the question would be what benefit such a transition would make. Certainly the structure is cleaner but otherwise it seems too massive an undertaking to bother with. I like metric measurements because it unifies a number of things - weight, volume, temprature, but time is something of its own thing.

 

[runvardh]

the 24 hour thing is kind of silly, but it's based off of a system in Ancient Egypt where they set out 10 hours for the day, 10 hours for the night, and two hours each for sunrise and sunset. 60 minutes and 60 seconds is from Babylon which used a base 60 number system (this is also where we get the 360 degrees for a full angular rotation). If I remember correctly the only time scales officially recorded as metric are Years (a) and Seconds (s).

 

[iamathousandapples]

Sigh. The fact that "there's A reason" (regardless of whether it's still a very good reason) appears to be enough justification for most people to keep doing things they way they've been doing them rather than try to improve. For instance... I can't imagine a society that used digital/metric time would ever decide to switch to what we use now. But people sure do want to cling to it regardless. And you know why? They have no vision.

So a completely legitimate reason to keep things the way they are isn't accepted and we should just accept otherwise we're clinging on to some archaic pointless(and unfounded) system?

 

[Athenian200]

So a completely legitimate reason to keep things the way they are isn't accepted and we should just accept otherwise we're clinging on to some archaic pointless(and unfounded) system?

Yes, it's like that.

 

[runvardh]

I find that part of the problem is that the ratio of days to years is non-decimal to start with. You can cut a day up decimal if you want, the phase over would take a while due to the political entertainment of getting it adopted everywhere. Years are already counted in decimal so that's not much of an issue. A decimal clock definitely would need some serious international co-operation to go through, and then the time needed to make sure there are software updates ready to get computers and atomic clocks to run on the new scale.

The change, however would end up requiring a redefinition of other Metric measurements, especially in terms of movement, force, energy. Physics text books would need to be rewritten and distributed. Everyone would need to be flash educated on the new system.

Someone also, will need to pay for all these changes; something the masses don't enjoy doing if what they're already using isn't broken. I'm sure your argument that you can't keep track of what day it is will be less than compelling to the less than logical average person. The issue is logistics and collective inertia.

 

[Athenian200]

I find that part of the problem is that the ratio of days to years is non-decimal to start with. You can cut a day up decimal if you want, the phase over would take a while due to the political entertainment of getting it adopted everywhere. Years are already counted in decimal so that's not much of an issue. A decimal clock definitely would need some serious international co-operation to go through, and then the time needed to make sure there are software updates ready to get computers and atomic clocks to run on the new scale.

The change, however would end up requiring a redefinition of other Metric measurements, especially in terms of movement, force, energy. Physics text books would need to be rewritten and distributed. Everyone would need to be flash educated on the new system.

Someone also, will need to pay for all these changes; something the masses don't enjoy doing if what they're already using isn't broken. I'm sure your argument that you can't keep track of what day it is will be less than compelling to the less than logical average person. The issue is logistics and collective inertia.

I agree with all your points about logistics/politics and such.

But it sounds like you're at least admitting that we've stuck with what we have now rather than improving it because of human silliness rather than because it has any real merit, right?

If that's the case, I agree. In fact, I did say that I didn't think it would be accepted in my OP. Americans are the worst, though... they won't even adopt metric measurements. No way would they ever adopt metric time.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I agree with all your points about logistics/politics and such.

But it sounds like you're at least admitting that we've stuck with what we have now rather than improving it because of human silliness rather than because it has any real merit, right?

If that's the case, I agree. In fact, I did say that I didn't think it would be accepted in my OP. Americans are the worst, though... they won't even adopt metric measurements. No way would they ever adopt metric time.

To be honest I don't see how not changing is silly, if anything, changing just to change is far sillier than not changing.

I don't see how the Metric system is an improvement on the current one. It's just different.